@lava2007 I apologise, I didn’t know you were so young.
The point I was making was not to speak in absolutes . The bodybuilders who taught me how to train lifted heavy like Dorian Yates. It was the norm in that era. All the pumping and high volume with light weights were done during PRE-CONTEST. This is the part where there is a difference when gear is involved. You get the metabolic benefits of this kind of training, save your joints from heavier weights enabled by increased drugs with higher androgenic properties while having the increased ability to preserve muscle because of the drugs. This is why a natty shouldn’t do the same.
I don’t know how this came to be known as “bodybuilding training”. What I am guessing is some smartass writers who have to tell everyone they’re “training for strength” because they don’t look like they lift pulled it out of their asses while watching videos of pro bodybuilders training and didn’t have the common sense to notice that these videos were filmed during contest season. Which is why these bodybuilders are fucking CUT and DRY and doing photoshoots with their shirts off.
I am not saying you cannot use light weights to progress if you know how to utilize them properly, nor am I saying bodybuilders don’t use light weights in their workouts. I am saying there is no such thing as “bodybuilding training”. There are only different styles of training vs training to achieve a bodybuilder’s symmetry, which is a lot more than “I just want bigger arms”. If you guys want to get big and have no interest in developing that, then just do 531 and add in arm and side delt work. Don’t just go pumping yourselves up thinking you’re “training for hypertrophy” because the internet said so. That’s rubbish.
Just for the record here, there is nothing inherently more or less advanced about a training split. It’s also better to train how you like and to match things like your schedule than to worry the little crap that might get 3% more gainz.
Really confused at what I should be doing at this point. I’d definitely say I’m still a beginner. Some More insight: I’ve been training for about 1-2 years although very stupidly. Did a bro split cause I followed my friends routines stupidly. Then switched things up after about a year. Really feel like I wasted a lot of time especially considering my lift numbers aren’t impressive at all. I think my size is decent but that’s not saying much.
There’s nothing wrong with a bro split. If I had put you on a “proven” program and didn’t give you guidelines on weight progression, you would have ended up exactly the same.
I’d guess more than 60% of lifters start on a bro-split. Hell, I did and had nothing to show for it really. Then I got into KB’s and bodyweight exercise circuits, essentially metcon workouts. I got into fantastic shape but I was still skinny.
Then I found the stronglifts site and 5x5 and thought it was the gospel. I ran that way too long but I actually put on some size and strength. Now I know more about things like progression.
Try running any of the proven beginner programs: Starting Strength, Strong Lifts, and Greyscale LP are all great choices. You’ll probably see progress stall sooner than most beginner because you’ve already started building a base of strength, but by then it will be easy for you to move to a program with longer term progression like 5/3/1, Cube, Juggernaut, most of CT’s programs on this site.
Do whatever will motivate you to train hard enough to kill yourself or die trying every time you touch the barbell in the gym. Evaluate results in 3 months and plan the next step based on said results.
I appreciate that fair response man. I just give advice based on what works for me, which unfortunately doesn’t apply to everyone, but I want to help people out. If it’s worked for me, there’s a chance that it can work for someone else, that’s all
For the first 4 years of my training, I was training for power with olympic lifts. That was in high school. Once high school ended, I decided that being strong is fun, but I’d rather look good on the beach, so that’s where the “being inexperienced and reading articles” comes in. You aren’t wrong about that. Everywhere I look, I see “70% for 8-12 reps with 60 seconds of rest” for hypertrophy. I don’t know how true that is, because that’s what I was doing for months, like I said, and nothing happened.
I know you didn’t mean any of that in a mean way, so don’t worry about it. I will say though, if I was 35 and training like a 19 year old, with the gym IQ of a 19 year old, then posted on a forum giving advice, that would warrant some harsh words.
When I post, I’m speaking from the few years of experience that I have. I do not and have not ever intended for what I say to be the end all, be all. I’m simply offering what has and has not worked for me in the few years that I’ve been training
I’m speaking for myself. I didn’t say that’s the case for everyone because it probably isn’t, but for the timeline for seeing results in myself as it pertains to strength vs size, I gain strength exponentially more quickly than I gain size
I have been doing an UL split 6 x’s a week for some time now. I’m older and don’t have the genetics or hormonal profile for a lot of volume and frequent intensity but the way I make it work is by training instinctively each workout. One day I feel like doing multi sets of heavy triples on a compound movement, other days its just high rep constant tension pump type sets, or slow eccentrics etc etc. Basically I vary the type of workout each time according to how I feel mentally.
This keeps me motivated and eager to get to my workouts each day and it keeps the pressure off to train to a specific program like 5/3/1 and other programs that I have done which also worked for me.
Sometimes I’ll skip a day and just keep repeating the UL split going as often as I desire depending on how I feel. This current routine feels like it’s giving a mental break but keeps me in the zone due to the frequency. I lose focus if I take more than a day or two off.
It just takes experience and knowing your body in order to regulate the volume, intensity and type of workout each day without over doing it.
There is no reason why this can’t work as long as you don’t do more volume than you can handle. At the same time, if the goal is hypertrophy then 4x upper/lower can work just fine, or 5 days if you want a dedicated back day. Look up Menno Henselmans (I might have spelled the last name wrong) and Borge Fagerli, they have been advocating high frequency training for bodybuilding.
I responded to this thread because I’m using a 6 day upper/lower split myself, but my focus is on powerlifting. It looks basically like this
day 1 - squat
day 2 -bench
day 3 - deadlift
day 4- bench
day 5 -slightly lighter squat and deadlift
day 6-bench
Not every day is only squat, bench or deadlift, I include variations and I do upper back work almost every day.
Mostly it’s compound/variations, but I also do rows, chin ups, curls, upper back stuff, etc. For example, before every bench/ pressing workout I do (as a warm up)hammer curls and band pull aparts between sets of bench with the bar. On some days I also do chin ups or rows afterwards. I was doing JM presses for a while but my elbows started aching. But again, my focus is not hypertrophy
The question for you is, what are you really trying to accomplish in the long run? If it’s just hypertrophy then you should check Mike Israetel and Renaissance Periodization for that. He was doing a push/pull/legs split twice a week not too long ago, in addition to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. There is no (non-retarded) split that won’t work as long as total volume is in check. I like higher frequency because it allows me to train with heavier weights and makes workouts shorter, I just don’t have time to train 3 hours at once. I also find that squatting and benching twice a week is the bare minimum.
I can burn out if Im not careful. But like I said i auto regulate volume, intensity and type of workout, and usually keep the workouts to under an hour just because I find I start getting burned out and loose focus or pump during the workout if I go longer. I will also take a day off if I don’t feel up to it mentally.
All that being said I make my best gains in strength and somewhat in size on an UL 4 day split like MT TF of MT T S etc.
At your age I think that might work the best for you while making sure you do a heavy compound movement each workout.
training 6x a week would bury me. I don’t even really like to do 2 days in a row but my weekly schedule generally means I have to do it at least once a week.
I used to train 5x a week, but when I switched to training one on/one off I grew way faster. Seems my body just needs a little more recovery than others. I feel better in the gym, too; fewer weekly workouts means fewer workouts when I show up to the gym dragging ass and dreading it.