Understanding Tipping

Off Topic
61

[quote]benos4752 wrote:
I’m sorry, but you have to EARN your tips.

There are certain instances, like at a bar, where I tip well and often to ensure good service. And I usually get the good service. However, if the service starts to slack, and it’s not an overwhelmingly busy night, so do the tips.

At a restaurant, the tip is earned. Did the food taste good? Was the waiter/waitress attentive? How many times did my water get refilled? Was my food taking extra long and did you come by to inform me? Did you give me service with a smile?

The problem is, restaurant workers don’t try to earn their tips anymore. Nowadays, tipping is expected. And if you don’t tip, all the high horse riding, moral white knights like those in this thread call you a stupid douche. Because it’s expected, restaurant staff (not all of them of course) don’t feel obligated to go that extra mile because they expect to get at least 15%, even if they do a shit job.

I used to be an EMT. When I quit, I was only making $11 dollars an hour. It didn’t matter if I was having a bad day. It didn’t matter if I was running back to back calls for 8 hours and hadn’t eaten since I left the house. It didn’t matter if my gf just broke up with me and my dog got ran over. I had to give the same level of care to patients at all times. I had to be there with a smile on my face. Had to deal with patients that were grumpy, sad, scared, in good moods, angry, whatever. I had to deal with families, nurses, etc. I never asked for a tip.

What about when I was a clerk at a liquor store for $8/hour? I had to deal with customers, sometimes in bad moods. Had to run to go find products they couldn’t, had to carry heavy boxes out of the storeroom, had to carry kegs out to customers cars and load them up. Never asked for a tip.

I’m sorry if you don’t feel you make enough, get a different job. If you want to be a waiter or waitress, than do a good job and earn your tip, you don’t get one for free.

I’m not cheap, I tip well when I tip. I tipped 50% just the other day because the food was delicious and service was awesome. At the same time, if you don’t do shit, it’s reflected in the tip, or lack there of.

A couple years ago, me and my gf went to a restaurant down in LA. Food was overpriced for the taste and quality. And service was horrendous. Food took forever to get to us and was room temp when we got it. Waitress, no busboy, only filled my water once, even though I actually asked for it a second time. Her friends came in and she sat at their table and talked to them for ten minutes, this whole time, we were waiting for our check. She finally got up, I asked her for our check, and she fucking sighed. Went and got it, put it down on the table and walked away to go talk to her friends again. A few minutes later I got her attention and asked for change. Left the bitch one penny. There is not excuse for that kind of treatment.

In contrast, last week, went with the gf to sushi. Amazing service, best sushi ever, bill was like $24; dropped two twenties on the table and left, they EARNED it.

Either get a different job, bust your ass and EARN your tip, or stop bitching. [/quote]

Fucking Amen /thread

62

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:
Groo, you seem to be the only one who can have a civilsed conversation. So then in essence in the UK we are paying even more than you, because not only do they get minimum wage but also add a 12.5% service charge to the bill that you would only not pay if something had gone wrong with your meal o the service.
I don’t like the US system that’s all, I don’t like the fact that some people can get a free ride by not tipping and that staff have to pick up the pennies to make a living. This shouldn’t be the way.[/quote]
Most people tip. Many servers don’t want to be locked in to a rate, if they are good they can earn more than a reasonable set wage, just like sales. You keep your commie shit to yourself.

63

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Many sales people are on straight commission and 0 wage, retard. Tipping encourages better service just the same and is an expected form of compensation for service rendered as we do not include mandatory service charges.
[/quote]

0 wage hahahahaha WTF, is this really true wow
This would never happen here in the UK… and I’m the retard?!

64

Shorty_blitz. Do you think any of us are elected officials by our national voters? Like, what radical transformation do you expect for us to magically instill into our government, because, I don’t see many of our elected officials going over “fix the issue of hard working people being allowed to be paid less than minimum wage” being a top priority on their agenda. Seriously, don’t be a knucklehead.

We’re talking about a particular service that is CUSTOMARY and considered to be RUDE by the MAJORITY of people who live in that country if said custom is not followed. You will get your people (like benos above, who likely has never worked in an actual restaurant) who will spew this shit because they believe in absolute truths, apparently.

Except you keep going back to this whole huge, philosophical perspective about what’s right and what’s not right and why our government is doing this and blah blah fucking yabba dabba doo.

Either have an actual point to discuss or stfu.

65

[quote]benos4752 wrote:
I’m sorry, but you have to EARN your tips.

There are certain instances, like at a bar, where I tip well and often to ensure good service. And I usually get the good service. However, if the service starts to slack, and it’s not an overwhelmingly busy night, so do the tips.

At a restaurant, the tip is earned. Did the food taste good? Was the waiter/waitress attentive? How many times did my water get refilled? Was my food taking extra long and did you come by to inform me? Did you give me service with a smile?

The problem is, restaurant workers don’t try to earn their tips anymore. Nowadays, tipping is expected. And if you don’t tip, all the high horse riding, moral white knights like those in this thread call you a stupid douche. Because it’s expected, restaurant staff (not all of them of course) don’t feel obligated to go that extra mile because they expect to get at least 15%, even if they do a shit job.

I used to be an EMT. When I quit, I was only making $11 dollars an hour. It didn’t matter if I was having a bad day. It didn’t matter if I was running back to back calls for 8 hours and hadn’t eaten since I left the house. It didn’t matter if my gf just broke up with me and my dog got ran over. I had to give the same level of care to patients at all times. I had to be there with a smile on my face. Had to deal with patients that were grumpy, sad, scared, in good moods, angry, whatever. I had to deal with families, nurses, etc. I never asked for a tip.

What about when I was a clerk at a liquor store for $8/hour? I had to deal with customers, sometimes in bad moods. Had to run to go find products they couldn’t, had to carry heavy boxes out of the storeroom, had to carry kegs out to customers cars and load them up. Never asked for a tip.

I’m sorry if you don’t feel you make enough, get a different job. If you want to be a waiter or waitress, than do a good job and earn your tip, you don’t get one for free.

I’m not cheap, I tip well when I tip. I tipped 50% just the other day because the food was delicious and service was awesome. At the same time, if you don’t do shit, it’s reflected in the tip, or lack there of.

A couple years ago, me and my gf went to a restaurant down in LA. Food was overpriced for the taste and quality. And service was horrendous. Food took forever to get to us and was room temp when we got it. Waitress, no busboy, only filled my water once, even though I actually asked for it a second time. Her friends came in and she sat at their table and talked to them for ten minutes, this whole time, we were waiting for our check. She finally got up, I asked her for our check, and she fucking sighed. Went and got it, put it down on the table and walked away to go talk to her friends again. A few minutes later I got her attention and asked for change. Left the bitch one penny. There is not excuse for that kind of treatment.

In contrast, last week, went with the gf to sushi. Amazing service, best sushi ever, bill was like $24; dropped two twenties on the table and left, they EARNED it.

Either get a different job, bust your ass and EARN your tip, or stop bitching. [/quote]

Eh you are all over the place. I never advocated tipping poor service. I just don’t think not tipping good service is ok. I think everyone would agree poor service shouldn’t be rewarded that is kinda of the point behind tipping. And we all know when have have service that goes above and beyond just the merely acceptable.

And most of us in any type of business realize that its important the customer maintains the perception they are right, there are certainly customers that aren’t worth having.

66

Keep my commie shit to myself?!?! WTF

WE STILL TIP MORON, nobody is stopping anyone from tipping more!

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:
Groo, you seem to be the only one who can have a civilsed conversation. So then in essence in the UK we are paying even more than you, because not only do they get minimum wage but also add a 12.5% service charge to the bill that you would only not pay if something had gone wrong with your meal o the service.
I don’t like the US system that’s all, I don’t like the fact that some people can get a free ride by not tipping and that staff have to pick up the pennies to make a living. This shouldn’t be the way.[/quote]
Most people tip. Many servers don’t want to be locked in to a rate, if they are good they can earn more than a reasonable set wage, just like sales. You keep your commie shit to yourself.[/quote]

67

[quote]groo wrote:
I never advocated tipping poor service. I just don’t think not tipping good service is ok. I think everyone would agree poor service shouldn’t be rewarded that is kinda of the point behind tipping. [/quote]

You may not have advocated it, but lot’s of people have. I remember a bunch of people in the last tipping thread saying that if you don’t tip, not matter what, you’re cheap. When people brought up bad service, they would say you have to at least give 10% because ‘They have hard jobs.’

68

[quote]SSC wrote:
Shorty_blitz. Do you think any of us are elected officials by our national voters? Like, what radical transformation do you expect for us to magically instill into our government, because, I don’t see many of our elected officials going over “fix the issue of hard working people being allowed to be paid less than minimum wage” being a top priority on their agenda. Seriously, don’t be a knucklehead.

We’re talking about a particular service that is CUSTOMARY and considered to be RUDE by the MAJORITY of people who live in that country if said custom is not followed. You will get your people (like benos above, who likely has never worked in an actual restaurant) who will spew this shit because they believe in absolute truths, apparently.

Except you keep going back to this whole huge, philosophical perspective about what’s right and what’s not right and why our government is doing this and blah blah fucking yabba dabba doo.

Either have an actual point to discuss or stfu.[/quote]

I don’t think even people like Benos actually believe what they are spewing. I really think some people are cheap and they realize they are getting by on others tipping. They wouldn’t go out to eat if their 40 dollar meal suddenly came to 65 dollars with no tip expected, but they hide this with rhetoric. I’d just like one cheap bastard to admit it and be proud.

69

Look

tipping = GOOD
not tipping = BAD

This is fucking obvious right?!

Now apologies for my philosophical shit, but it’s a conversation and I was merely raising an issue that seems wrong to me in the way things are.
If you don’t want to hear it or can’t be bothered about it then there really is nothing more left to say!

Peace.

[quote]SSC wrote:
Shorty_blitz. Do you think any of us are elected officials by our national voters? Like, what radical transformation do you expect for us to magically instill into our government, because, I don’t see many of our elected officials going over “fix the issue of hard working people being allowed to be paid less than minimum wage” being a top priority on their agenda. Seriously, don’t be a knucklehead.

We’re talking about a particular service that is CUSTOMARY and considered to be RUDE by the MAJORITY of people who live in that country if said custom is not followed. You will get your people (like benos above, who likely has never worked in an actual restaurant) who will spew this shit because they believe in absolute truths, apparently.

Except you keep going back to this whole huge, philosophical perspective about what’s right and what’s not right and why our government is doing this and blah blah fucking yabba dabba doo.

Either have an actual point to discuss or stfu.[/quote]

70

[quote]benos4752 wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:
I never advocated tipping poor service. I just don’t think not tipping good service is ok. I think everyone would agree poor service shouldn’t be rewarded that is kinda of the point behind tipping. [/quote]

You may not have advocated it, but lot’s of people have. I remember a bunch of people in the last tipping thread saying that if you don’t tip, not matter what, you’re cheap. When people brought up bad service, they would say you have to at least give 10% because ‘They have hard jobs.’[/quote]

Servers that get bad tips from everyone because of poor service or just being inept work themselves out of the business they are bad for customers and for the business owner.

71

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Many sales people are on straight commission and 0 wage, retard. Tipping encourages better service just the same and is an expected form of compensation for service rendered as we do not include mandatory service charges.
[/quote]

0 wage hahahahaha WTF, is this really true wow
This would never happen here in the UK… and I’m the retard?![/quote]
I give my sales guys options. Only one took salary. I paid him 70k last year. Had he chosen commission, his percentage would have been exactly double. You are retarded, or you suck and need to just skate by. 0 salary, they still earn a wage retard.

72

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:
SSC you say “These people are paid LESS than the minimum government-mandated wage for American citizens.”

Does anyone here still not understand that THIS is where the problem lies? Or do you people still not care? How can any profession be paid LESS than the minimum government-mandate, it is surely not legal. I mean are we talking chinese sweat shops here?![/quote]

It’s really a simple issue of statute law. There are Federal Minimum wages and State Minimum wages. State minimum wages may exceed Federal Minimum wage.

Federal Minimum wage laws account for professions ‘customarily’ paid by tipping.

This is from the (federal) US Dept. of Labor:

http://www.dol.gov/wb/faq26.htm

Question: Is it legal for waiters and waitresses to be paid below the minimum wage?

Answer: According to the Fair Labor Standards Act, tipped employees are individuals engaged in occupations in which they customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips. The employer may consider tips as part of wages, but the employer must pay at least $2.13 an hour in direct wages.

An employer may credit a portion of a tipped employee’s tips against the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009. An employer must pay at least $2.13 per hour. However, if an employee’s tips combined with the employer’s wage of $2.13 per hour do not equal the hourly minimum wage, the employer is required to make up the difference.

The employer who elects to use the tip credit provision must inform the employee in advance and must be able to show that the employee receives at least the applicable minimum wage (see above) when direct wages and the tip credit allowance are combined. If an employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Also, employees must retain all of their tips, except to the extent that they participate in a valid tip pooling or sharing arrangement.

According to this, it seems that employers have leeway to fire shitty wait staff as they cost the restaurant money in employer ‘subsidies’.

73

The norm here is you get a BASE salary and the rest you make in commissions and the sky is the limit. Do you live in a fucking jungle? I’m done with this thread.

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Many sales people are on straight commission and 0 wage, retard. Tipping encourages better service just the same and is an expected form of compensation for service rendered as we do not include mandatory service charges.
[/quote]

0 wage hahahahaha WTF, is this really true wow
This would never happen here in the UK… and I’m the retard?![/quote]
I give my sales guys options. Only one took salary. I paid him 70k last year. Had he chosen commission, his percentage would have been exactly double. You are retarded, or you suck and need to just skate by. 0 salary, they still earn a wage retard.[/quote]

74

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:
Shorty_blitz. Do you think any of us are elected officials by our national voters? Like, what radical transformation do you expect for us to magically instill into our government, because, I don’t see many of our elected officials going over “fix the issue of hard working people being allowed to be paid less than minimum wage” being a top priority on their agenda. Seriously, don’t be a knucklehead.

We’re talking about a particular service that is CUSTOMARY and considered to be RUDE by the MAJORITY of people who live in that country if said custom is not followed. You will get your people (like benos above, who likely has never worked in an actual restaurant) who will spew this shit because they believe in absolute truths, apparently.

Except you keep going back to this whole huge, philosophical perspective about what’s right and what’s not right and why our government is doing this and blah blah fucking yabba dabba doo.

Either have an actual point to discuss or stfu.[/quote]

I don’t think even people like Benos actually believe what they are spewing. I really think some people are cheap and they realize they are getting by on others tipping. They wouldn’t go out to eat if their 40 dollar meal suddenly came to 65 dollars with no tip expected, but they hide this with rhetoric. I’d just like one cheap bastard to admit it and be proud.
[/quote]

Undoubtedly, there are some cheap bastards out there. But there are also those of us who have no problem tipping when we’re satisfied. If everything is average to good, I always tip, at least 15-20%. When service and food are awesome, I will tip very high. However, in situations like the one I was in a few years ago, I’m sorry, I don’t believe you earned that money. If I put the equivalent level of effort into any of my previous jobs, I’d be fired, and half of my working life was spent working for my family on the farm. Why should someone get extra money from me for no extra effort?

75

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Many sales people are on straight commission and 0 wage, retard. Tipping encourages better service just the same and is an expected form of compensation for service rendered as we do not include mandatory service charges.
[/quote]

0 wage hahahahaha WTF, is this really true wow
This would never happen here in the UK… and I’m the retard?![/quote]
I give my sales guys options. Only one took salary. I paid him 70k last year. Had he chosen commission, his percentage would have been exactly double. You are retarded, or you suck and need to just skate by. 0 salary, they still earn a wage retard.[/quote]
I also think that people that are unfamiliar with the service industry and the tacit agreement that is between customers and servers don’t realize how much good servers can make. Good servers make a lot of money, I just don’t like the cheap taking advantage of the normal guest. As a separate aside it seems like people that are the most adamant about not tipping have some of the highest standards for what they believe to be acceptable service.

76

[quote]benos4752 wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:
Shorty_blitz. Do you think any of us are elected officials by our national voters? Like, what radical transformation do you expect for us to magically instill into our government, because, I don’t see many of our elected officials going over “fix the issue of hard working people being allowed to be paid less than minimum wage” being a top priority on their agenda. Seriously, don’t be a knucklehead.

We’re talking about a particular service that is CUSTOMARY and considered to be RUDE by the MAJORITY of people who live in that country if said custom is not followed. You will get your people (like benos above, who likely has never worked in an actual restaurant) who will spew this shit because they believe in absolute truths, apparently.

Except you keep going back to this whole huge, philosophical perspective about what’s right and what’s not right and why our government is doing this and blah blah fucking yabba dabba doo.

Either have an actual point to discuss or stfu.[/quote]

I don’t think even people like Benos actually believe what they are spewing. I really think some people are cheap and they realize they are getting by on others tipping. They wouldn’t go out to eat if their 40 dollar meal suddenly came to 65 dollars with no tip expected, but they hide this with rhetoric. I’d just like one cheap bastard to admit it and be proud.
[/quote]

Undoubtedly, there are some cheap bastards out there. But there are also those of us who have no problem tipping when we’re satisfied. If everything is average to good, I always tip, at least 15-20%. When service and food are awesome, I will tip very high. However, in situations like the one I was in a few years ago, I’m sorry, I don’t believe you earned that money. If I put the equivalent level of effort into any of my previous jobs, I’d be fired, and half of my working life was spent working for my family on the farm. Why should someone get extra money from me for no extra effort?[/quote]
Well of course you shouldn’t have tipped in the story you related. Any server that treated a guest like that should have been let go immediately.

77

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:
The norm here is you get a BASE salary and the rest you make in commissions and the sky is the limit. Do you live in a fucking jungle? I’m done with this thread.

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Many sales people are on straight commission and 0 wage, retard. Tipping encourages better service just the same and is an expected form of compensation for service rendered as we do not include mandatory service charges.
[/quote]

0 wage hahahahaha WTF, is this really true wow
This would never happen here in the UK… and I’m the retard?![/quote]
I give my sales guys options. Only one took salary. I paid him 70k last year. Had he chosen commission, his percentage would have been exactly double. You are retarded, or you suck and need to just skate by. 0 salary, they still earn a wage retard.[/quote]
[/quote]Except what you don’t realize is even on a split, common here too, your commission percentages are always lower than straight contract and if you are worth your salt you are better off taking commission. I know I don’t want my guy growing balls and switching, 70k out of my pocket right there. His loss. I live in the currently most prosperous region of the most prosperous nation this world has ever seen, retard.

78

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Many sales people are on straight commission and 0 wage, retard. Tipping encourages better service just the same and is an expected form of compensation for service rendered as we do not include mandatory service charges.
[/quote]

0 wage hahahahaha WTF, is this really true wow
This would never happen here in the UK… and I’m the retard?![/quote]
I give my sales guys options. Only one took salary. I paid him 70k last year. Had he chosen commission, his percentage would have been exactly double. You are retarded, or you suck and need to just skate by. 0 salary, they still earn a wage retard.[/quote]
I also think that people that are unfamiliar with the service industry and the tacit agreement that is between customers and servers don’t realize how much good servers can make. Good servers make a lot of money, I just don’t like the cheap taking advantage of the normal guest. As a separate aside it seems like people that are the most adamant about not tipping have some of the highest standards for what they believe to be acceptable service. [/quote]cheapskates making justifications.

79

Like I said carry on doing what you are doing. If you like your system the way it is then so be it. That’s why you do it your way and we do it ours. I just don’t like it.

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:
The norm here is you get a BASE salary and the rest you make in commissions and the sky is the limit. Do you live in a fucking jungle? I’m done with this thread.

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Many sales people are on straight commission and 0 wage, retard. Tipping encourages better service just the same and is an expected form of compensation for service rendered as we do not include mandatory service charges.
[/quote]

0 wage hahahahaha WTF, is this really true wow
This would never happen here in the UK… and I’m the retard?![/quote]
I give my sales guys options. Only one took salary. I paid him 70k last year. Had he chosen commission, his percentage would have been exactly double. You are retarded, or you suck and need to just skate by. 0 salary, they still earn a wage retard.[/quote]
[/quote]Except what you don’t realize is even on a split, common here too, your commission percentages are always lower than straight contract and if you are worth your salt you are better off taking commission. I know I don’t want my guy growing balls and switching, 70k out of my pocket right there. His loss. I live in the currently most prosperous region of the most prosperous nation this world has ever seen, retard.
[/quote]

80

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:
Like I said carry on doing what you are doing. If you like your system the way it is then so be it. That’s why you do it your way and we do it ours. I just don’t like it.

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:
The norm here is you get a BASE salary and the rest you make in commissions and the sky is the limit. Do you live in a fucking jungle? I’m done with this thread.

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Many sales people are on straight commission and 0 wage, retard. Tipping encourages better service just the same and is an expected form of compensation for service rendered as we do not include mandatory service charges.
[/quote]

0 wage hahahahaha WTF, is this really true wow
This would never happen here in the UK… and I’m the retard?![/quote]
I give my sales guys options. Only one took salary. I paid him 70k last year. Had he chosen commission, his percentage would have been exactly double. You are retarded, or you suck and need to just skate by. 0 salary, they still earn a wage retard.[/quote]
[/quote]Except what you don’t realize is even on a split, common here too, your commission percentages are always lower than straight contract and if you are worth your salt you are better off taking commission. I know I don’t want my guy growing balls and switching, 70k out of my pocket right there. His loss. I live in the currently most prosperous region of the most prosperous nation this world has ever seen, retard.
[/quote]
[/quote]Good thing the post was directed at Americans. FWIW, I wouldn’t tip for British food either, you’d have to pay me to eat that so I see your conundrum.