[quote]Dizzle wrote:
anyway id put my life savings on the line that the top MMA fighters in the world would beat military personel 9 out of 10 times in the ring[/quote]
I disagree, I think it’d be more like 10 out of 10 times.
yeah your probably right 10 out of 10…gotta give the thought of maybe catching a lucky knock out punch, your right highly unlikely though…
Kennedy is the kind of guy that expects people to kill themselves in the ring because he made the effort to download the fight torrent off the web.
However, if he were in any kind of fight, chances are he will misinterpret submission holds as cues for penetration and exhibit signs of lordosis.
[quote]DON D1ESEL wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
I’m curious as to how your posts are getting through the moderators.
BURN.
May have singed the mods as well.[/quote]
Sadly I can no longer voice my opinion due to censorship. You guys win.
There are some true warriors in every branch and combat arms units of the military, but there are also some chicken shit bitches in every branch too.
I’ve had the opportunity to be around SEALs and if some of those guys trained in MMA full time, they would be tough to beat. They already have extensive training in hand to hand combat unlike most military units. Alot of these guys are pretty big too. I’m talking ripped 220 lbs. That says alot being basically endurance athletes.
I’d also hate to actually piss them off in the streets as they’d have the ability to cut my throat before I even knew I was in a fight.
That probably goes for Green Berets and Delta Force too, and a few Rangers.
These guys are dodging bullets, not just fists. They also never quit.
[quote]Aravind wrote:
Kennedy is the kind of guy that expects people to kill themselves in the ring because he made the effort to download the fight torrent off the web.
However, if he were in any kind of fight, chances are he will misinterpret submission holds as cues for penetration and exhibit signs of lordosis.[/quote]
Bio-BURN.
[quote]kenedy13 wrote:
UFC is probably the saddest attempt at real fighting I’ve ever seen. I don’t know how anyone could confuse this shit for martial arts. A bunch of girly men rolling around slapping each other with gloves and tape on. Most of them are in pretty terrible shape, with a few exeptions.
[quote]
I’m gathering you’ve never trained MMA before or wrestled because you obviously don’t have a clue about how tough it is cardio wise.The UFC isn’t real fighting its a sport otherwise you wouldn’t be seeing it on tv. If you want to see ‘real fighting’ go onto the street and start a fight where theres no rules and people bite, kick each other in the balls and eye gouge, things like headbutts and groin strikes were allowed in the first UFC’s and no gloves were wornbut surprisingly american regulators and politicians didn’t take to kindly to some of the things that took place e.g Teila Tulu’s teeth flying across the ring in UFC 1.
Also like to draw attention to you claiming they slap each other perhaps you’d liek to observe Tim Sylvia’s knockout over Tra Telligman with a high kick which left him unconcious for several minutes after their match.
Also ‘real martial arts’, I’d liek to know what martial arts you’ve trained seeing as in the 8 years i’ve been training MMA is just about as real as it gets. Unless you’ve done some style outside of these; Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Boxing, Wrestling, Ju Jitsu and Krav Maga then I don’t understand your definition of ‘real’
I’ve watched over 400 MMA fights from K1, Pride, the UFC and other smaller organisations, the one thing that always strikes me is the willingness of these guys to put their health on the line to fight. One punch and it can be over one slick submission move and its over or worse your injured (just ask Tim Sylvia after the Frank Mir fight)Most fighters come in immaculatly prepared and in great shape.
From your comments I don’t think you understand what you are talkign about, I’m not attempting to demean you but trying to address some of the points you put across. IF you feel so strongly then go and try MMA for yourself and you’ll realise how tough it is and gain some respect for the guys that fight.
JP
[quote]carter12 wrote:
There are some true warriors in every branch and combat arms units of the military, but there are also some chicken shit bitches in every branch too.
I’ve had the opportunity to be around SEALs and if some of those guys trained in MMA full time, they would be tough to beat. They already have extensive training in hand to hand combat unlike most military units. Alot of these guys are pretty big too. I’m talking ripped 220 lbs. That says alot being basically endurance athletes.
I’d also hate to actually piss them off in the streets as they’d have the ability to cut my throat before I even knew I was in a fight.
That probably goes for Green Berets and Delta Force too, and a few Rangers.
These guys are dodging bullets, not just fists. They also never quit. [/quote]
Along these lines, a good friend of mine is a former and soon to be returning seal (with a grad school education too), who is also a purple belt in jits. He is a tough motha’
I can still take him, though 
First off the guy who had been training for years, gave up everything, and then quite because he couldn’t handle the camera and lights and the other guy who showed up 20+lbs overweight… unforgivable.
Here you have the chance of the life time and you can’t handle it?! Or you spent the last 4 months sitting on the couch eating ice cream! COME ON! YOU ARE TRYING TO BECOME A PRO-ATHLETE! I have friends who entered tapes who would have gone on IV’s to make that weight. It just really ticked me off.
2nd to whoever said they don’t have anything left in the 2nd and 3rd round. Please remember these guys are fighting 5 minute rounds. 5 minutes of fighting feels like an eternity. Not to mention the nervous tension you build up knowing that the first mistake your going to make a man is going start wailing on your or toss you in a submission. Seriously, just try throwing punches for 5 straight minutes, take a minute break and then do it again. It?s rough.
As to the actual fighters themselves you have to remember that this is a TV show. Some of these guys are seriously bad dudes and some have been put on because they think the personalities will make the show interesting.
The guy who got his leg messed up is supposed to be a really tough guy. I?m sure if he was given the option to stay he would have regardless but the Dr.?s didn?t clear him to compete. So right now my $ is on the guy with the long beard to take the heavyweights and if that Melvin guy is a welter weight, I?d pick him.
I?d like this show a lot more if they showed more of their training. Its kind of hard judging how good a fighter is when the only thing they show them doing is a wall sit. (And that was pretty sad too. I?m no where close to competition level but heck I can do 4 minutes)
my 2 cents
[quote]zdrax wrote:
Having watched the first and now this season, I have to say I’m quite unimpressed with the conditioning and physique of most of the competitors on the Ultimate Fighter. Coming into an opportunity like this, you should be in the best shape of your life. Many of these guys, frankly, don’t look it, especially when compared to the K-1 competitors.
UFC, to this day, still strikes me as attracting the haphazard “bar room brawler” more than the true martial artist, as PRIDE and K-1 seem to. It might just be a cultural difference, or the wide proliferation of non-MMA/full-contact martial arts organizations in the US. This season should be interesting - I like how they’ve changed the challenges to strength and conditioning events rather than random, “typical” reality TV tests.
I recommend everyone get ahold of the Stephen Bonner/Forrest Griffin fight from the finals of last year. It’s been heralded as perhaps the greatest MMA fight of all time. Maybe not so technically, but in terms of heart, strength, perserverance, and courage, their match was quite inspiring.[/quote]
Hmmm Randy Couture, Mike Van Arsdale, Mark Kerr, Mark Coleman, Tito Ortiz, Matt Hughs, Matt Lindland ect ect.
The list goes on and on of world class and national class athletes who have competed in the UFC.
I can’t remember how many times I have seen guys from what you would call a “real martial art” get tooled by these so called bar room ballers.
Fighting is not pretty. It is unpredictable and ugly by nature. You are not going to able to fire off alot of the pretty little techniques they teach you in alot of traditional martial arts. That’s why boxing, wrestling, Muy Thai and BJJ do well in MMA. Their techniques are simple, effective and can be used against a resisting opponent.
That’s what I like about MMA. It’s all about the gameplan and preparation. Like a human chess match. Ta Kwon Do is beautiful to watch but I would not recomend trying to use it outside the dojo. Just not very practical.
I suppose I was addressing the origins of their impetus to fight. In Japan, the major fight organizations grew out of already established martial arts federations (K-1 out of Kyokushinkai/Seidokai tournaments), or stiff/shoot style unions like the UWF that evolved out of Puroresu and into PRIDE.
Obviously this is changing as we see more and more individuals completely bypassing any sort of unique training background. Perhaps it’s this new emphasis on identical cross-training methods (Boxing, Muay Thai, Jujitsu) that in my eyes seems to make UFC more a “fight organization” and less a Mixed Martial Arts organization.
Everything seems like a watered down, mishmash of techniques with very little mastery of any. I see far more expertise in the Japanese fight organizations that, I believe, lead to more interesting fights.
I’m waiting for the “next big thing” in terms of training methodologies and technique development. I for one would like to see a movement away from the “UFC” style which has become so prevalent. I think right now the paradigm is “you must cross-train in these three styles, or else you won’t be competitive.”
I think other training philosophies and methodologies have a lot to offer, but right now the training regime has become so ossified, no one has yet considered tackling the Octagon with any creativity.
I just saw a Pride fighting show on Fox tonight. Chuck Liddell vs. Rampage Jackson. Chuck lost. He got his ass whipped. His corner threw in the towel after he got picked up and slammed. Jackson was regularly hitting Chuck with bombs. My question…
Are Pride fighters generally better than UFC fighters?
[quote]tumbeh wrote:
I just saw a Pride fighting show on Fox tonight. Chuck Liddell vs. Rampage Jackson. Chuck lost. He got his ass whipped. His corner threw in the towel after he got picked up and slammed. Jackson was regularly hitting Chuck with bombs. My question…
Are Pride fighters generally better than UFC fighters?[/quote]
Yes. It’s basically the opposite of baseball, with the Japanese league being better than the Americans. They simply overall have higher calibre fighters, mostly cause MMA is huge in Japan but not well accpted in the US.
[quote]KombatAthlete wrote:
Yes. It’s basically the opposite of baseball, with the Japanese league being better than the Americans. They simply overall have higher calibre fighters, mostly cause MMA is huge in Japan but not well accpted in the US.[/quote]
I heard something that they don’t steriod test either… any truth to that? Might that be why Dana White rejected an offer for Crocop to have a fight in UFC?
Having a cage facilitates a more ground and pound, environmental exploitive battle. Many times, in the UFC, an opponent will be pinned against the octagon, with no real way to defend against his opponent. The adaptation to a ring style match-up, I believe, equalizes the playing field. Phil Baroni, who was only moderately successful in the UFC, has been doing very well in PRIDE. By the way, to the poster who saw the PRIDE Liddell fight, do you recall which fight card that match-up was on?
[quote]KombatAthlete wrote:
tumbeh wrote:
I just saw a Pride fighting show on Fox tonight. Chuck Liddell vs. Rampage Jackson. Chuck lost. He got his ass whipped. His corner threw in the towel after he got picked up and slammed. Jackson was regularly hitting Chuck with bombs. My question…
Are Pride fighters generally better than UFC fighters?
Yes. It’s basically the opposite of baseball, with the Japanese league being better than the Americans. They simply overall have higher calibre fighters, mostly cause MMA is huge in Japan but not well accpted in the US.[/quote]
It’s a bit of a different arena, while I do agree that Pride heavyweights are by far better(save Arvlovski,) I do think that UFC fighters[in other weightclasses] would win if they fought under UFC rules in the octagon. Taking one fight out of a fighter’s career is a bit misleading, as some guys just get caught by the wrong punch or it just isn’t their day, Wanderlei got tooled by Vitor, and Tito took it to his ass as well when he fought in UFC, that doesn’t mean Wanderlei isn’t the best LH. I think it’s more of a North American thing to say a fighter is washed up because he loses a lopsided fight or two as the Japanese seem a lot more knowledgeable about the idiosyncracies of MMA.
also, someone said something about more technique mastery in japanese MMA, but this is Ultimate Fighting, not MMA. There is no technique to fighting. I learned this the hard way, cuz i can throw hands with nearly any none competitive fighter, but i went to a jiu jitsu class and a guy that i outweighed by like 15-20 lbs. schooled my ass once i hit the ground. Had i been allowed to punch the guy, my situation would have turned out significantly different, i think. in other words, had we been fighting, and not jiu jitsu sparring it would have been a little more fair (for lack of a better word).
Okay, so, who caught episode 2 last night?
–MORE SPOILERS, BUT IF YOU HAVEN’T SEEN IT YET, SORRY, BUT THAT’S TOUGH–
I was glad we finally got to see a fight, and I had a feeling from the beginning that Josh would come out on top, even though we saw ZERO of his training, and they focused on Melvin the Mouth. I had to think Hughes wouldn’t make a decision like that unless he knew what he was doing. I really hope they don’t bring him back simply to stir up the house, a’la Leben last year. I’m not one for trash talking, so I love that the kid who had “68 amature wins by knockout” got whooped.
The fight itself was pretty solid, but Berkman looked winded as hell by the middle of the second. I think, if Melvin hadn’t broken his hand, and had let more bombs fly (like Rich was telling him to), he would’ve had it in the bag. He definitely had a nice stand-up game, and good defense on the ground (that somersault to escape the rear bear hug was awesome). And his guillotines looked sick. I kept hoping Berkman wouldn’t get caught by them, and 2 or 3 times, I was sure he did.
It sucks to think Berkman might be out of the show too (due to some kind of elbow injury, which they alluded to in the previews for next week).
Minotaur,
yeah, i caught it too, and was glad to see that guy leave. i was wondering why he was talking so much smack before, becuase everyone knew he was gonna have to prove how good he was. and if he was good as he said he was, with 40 something fights, he would already be fighting in Pride of UFC…
overall, it was good. i’ve been looking at TUF website, and there some decent fighters on there this year (you can check their profiles and records)…should be good.
[quote]zdrax wrote:
Having a cage facilitates a more ground and pound, environmental exploitive battle. Many times, in the UFC, an opponent will be pinned against the octagon, with no real way to defend against his opponent. The adaptation to a ring style match-up, I believe, equalizes the playing field. Phil Baroni, who was only moderately successful in the UFC, has been doing very well in PRIDE. By the way, to the poster who saw the PRIDE Liddell fight, do you recall which fight card that match-up was on?[/quote]
The Liddell/Rampage fight was round 3 of the 2003 Middleweight GP.
La’
Redsol1