MMA has the worst fans in the world. A guy who has torn through everyone in front of him doesn’t nuke a guys face off in 10 seconds and suddenly everyone goes from sucking his balls to hating him.
Whoever was talking about Fedor bringing it everytime at max speed is being silly. He has deliberately drug many fights he was absolutely dominating out to a decision to get the safe victory. He spent the last round of Fedor-Nog III dancing around and running away. I dare you to watch Fedor-Schilt without falling asleep. Great fighters win fights.
Yeah, Kos said before the fight that he “had nothing to lose”, which isn’t true, he had another title shot to lose, and he did. [/quote]
I’ve never understood competitors who have this mentality - you have the whole darn fight to lose! What’s more, in mma, or any other number of contact sports, you can get seriously injured.
Take the fight on two weeks notice if you think you have a shot to win, that’s fine. I honestly dont think having more notice would’ve helped kos, he looked in shape, etc, he just didnt look like as good a fighter as alves. But dont act like you have nothing to lose
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
MMA has the worst fans in the world. A guy who has torn through everyone in front of him doesn’t nuke a guys face off in 10 seconds and suddenly everyone goes from sucking his balls to hating him.
Whoever was talking about Fedor bringing it everytime at max speed is being silly. He has deliberately drug many fights he was absolutely dominating out to a decision to get the safe victory. He spent the last round of Fedor-Nog III dancing around and running away. I dare you to watch Fedor-Schilt without falling asleep. Great fighters win fights.[/quote]
Fedor and Silva are also different fighters…should be no need to point that out. If UFC 90 made you HATE Silva…then you never was a fan to begin with.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
I honestly dont think having more notice would’ve helped kos, he looked in shape, etc, he just didnt look like as good a fighter as alves. But dont act like you have nothing to lose[/quote]
Well, the longer time might not have gotten him into better shape, but it could have possibly allowed his camp to come up with a better strategy and helped Kos to actually work drills that might help him pull off the strategy.
As it was, he basically tried to outstrike Alves (stupid IMO) and then when that didn’t work, he just tried to bull him into the fence and take him down. He didn’t seem to be able to put the two things (grappling and striking) together at all though (conceptually and physically).
Now to Alves’s credit, he showed some very good takedown defense. But, it’s also much easier to defend a takedown when your opponent doesn’t set it up, and isn’t really trying to soften you up, you don’t have to worry about strikes, while doing it.
That’s what I meant about yelling at Kos when he had Alves pinned up against the fence. Every time he got into that position he should have been blasting Alves’s legs with knees. If for no other reason than to slow Alves down on the feet in order to make him easier to hit. Heck, Alves seemed to grasp that concept as he kept kicking Kos in the legs to slow him down.
There was also no attempt whatsoever to try to set up any takedowns with strikes on Kos’s part. He had Alves back peddaling with his back to the cage numerous times (many times with his hands up covering his head) and never once made the connection that this might be a decent time to try for a takedown, or at least rush him into the fence to deliver some more nonexistent knees.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
I honestly dont think having more notice would’ve helped kos, he looked in shape, etc, he just didnt look like as good a fighter as alves. But dont act like you have nothing to lose
Well, the longer time might not have gotten him into better shape, but it could have possibly allowed his camp to come up with a better strategy and helped Kos to actually work drills that might help him pull off the strategy.
As it was, he basically tried to outstrike Alves (stupid IMO) and then when that didn’t work, he just tried to bull him into the fence and take him down. He didn’t seem to be able to put the two things (grappling and striking) together at all though (conceptually and physically).
Now to Alves’s credit, he showed some very good takedown defense. But, it’s also much easier to defend a takedown when your opponent doesn’t set it up, and isn’t really trying to soften you up, you don’t have to worry about strikes, while doing it.
That’s what I meant about yelling at Kos when he had Alves pinned up against the fence. Every time he got into that position he should have been blasting Alves’s legs with knees. If for no other reason than to slow Alves down on the feet in order to make him easier to hit. Heck, Alves seemed to grasp that concept as he kept kicking Kos in the legs to slow him down.
There was also no attempt whatsoever to try to set up any takedowns with strikes on Kos’s part. He had Alves back peddaling with his back to the cage numerous times (many times with his hands up covering his head) and never once made the connection that this might be a decent time to try for a takedown, or at least rush him into the fence to deliver some more nonexistent knees. ;)[/quote]
Koscheck thinks he’s a striker now…and he’s arrogant even with his coaches. Thats why GSP beat him at his own game.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
MMA has the worst fans in the world. A guy who has torn through everyone in front of him doesn’t nuke a guys face off in 10 seconds and suddenly everyone goes from sucking his balls to hating him.
Whoever was talking about Fedor bringing it everytime at max speed is being silly. He has deliberately drug many fights he was absolutely dominating out to a decision to get the safe victory. He spent the last round of Fedor-Nog III dancing around and running away. I dare you to watch Fedor-Schilt without falling asleep. Great fighters win fights.
Fedor and Silva are also different fighters…should be no need to point that out. If UFC 90 made you HATE Silva…then you never was a fan to begin with.
[/quote]
For some reason a lot of people seem to dislike Anderson Silva, long before UFC 90. I never really got it, but the guy never seems to draw the fans like GSP, BJ, or even the way Franklin did.
[quote]analog_kid wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
MMA has the worst fans in the world. A guy who has torn through everyone in front of him doesn’t nuke a guys face off in 10 seconds and suddenly everyone goes from sucking his balls to hating him.
Whoever was talking about Fedor bringing it everytime at max speed is being silly. He has deliberately drug many fights he was absolutely dominating out to a decision to get the safe victory. He spent the last round of Fedor-Nog III dancing around and running away. I dare you to watch Fedor-Schilt without falling asleep. Great fighters win fights.
Fedor and Silva are also different fighters…should be no need to point that out. If UFC 90 made you HATE Silva…then you never was a fan to begin with.
For some reason a lot of people seem to dislike Anderson Silva, long before UFC 90. I never really got it, but the guy never seems to draw the fans like GSP, BJ, or even the way Franklin did.
[/quote]
I think it’s related to the fact that no one knew who the hell he was and thought Franklin would beat Anderson soundly, only to be shown how little they knew about MMA.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
analog_kid wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
MMA has the worst fans in the world. A guy who has torn through everyone in front of him doesn’t nuke a guys face off in 10 seconds and suddenly everyone goes from sucking his balls to hating him.
Whoever was talking about Fedor bringing it everytime at max speed is being silly. He has deliberately drug many fights he was absolutely dominating out to a decision to get the safe victory. He spent the last round of Fedor-Nog III dancing around and running away. I dare you to watch Fedor-Schilt without falling asleep. Great fighters win fights.
Fedor and Silva are also different fighters…should be no need to point that out. If UFC 90 made you HATE Silva…then you never was a fan to begin with.
For some reason a lot of people seem to dislike Anderson Silva, long before UFC 90. I never really got it, but the guy never seems to draw the fans like GSP, BJ, or even the way Franklin did.
I think it’s related to the fact that no one knew who the hell he was and thought Franklin would beat Anderson soundly, only to be shown how little they knew about MMA.[/quote]
I honestly think his lack of English makes people not like him as well, as bad as that sounds.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
I honestly dont think having more notice would’ve helped kos, he looked in shape, etc, he just didnt look like as good a fighter as alves. But dont act like you have nothing to lose
Well, the longer time might not have gotten him into better shape, but it could have possibly allowed his camp to come up with a better strategy and helped Kos to actually work drills that might help him pull off the strategy.
As it was, he basically tried to outstrike Alves (stupid IMO) and then when that didn’t work, he just tried to bull him into the fence and take him down. He didn’t seem to be able to put the two things (grappling and striking) together at all though (conceptually and physically).
Now to Alves’s credit, he showed some very good takedown defense. But, it’s also much easier to defend a takedown when your opponent doesn’t set it up, and isn’t really trying to soften you up, you don’t have to worry about strikes, while doing it.
That’s what I meant about yelling at Kos when he had Alves pinned up against the fence. Every time he got into that position he should have been blasting Alves’s legs with knees. If for no other reason than to slow Alves down on the feet in order to make him easier to hit. Heck, Alves seemed to grasp that concept as he kept kicking Kos in the legs to slow him down.
There was also no attempt whatsoever to try to set up any takedowns with strikes on Kos’s part. He had Alves back peddaling with his back to the cage numerous times (many times with his hands up covering his head) and never once made the connection that this might be a decent time to try for a takedown, or at least rush him into the fence to deliver some more nonexistent knees.
Koscheck thinks he’s a striker now…and he’s arrogant even with his coaches. Thats why GSP beat him at his own game.[/quote]
It’s really too bad because he’s got a ton of potential. But until he starts listening to his coaches (or he goes and trains with someone who he will listen to) he’s never gonna be the fighter he could be.
For some reason a lot of people seem to dislike Anderson Silva, long before UFC 90. I never really got it, but the guy never seems to draw the fans like GSP, BJ, or even the way Franklin did.
I think it’s related to the fact that no one knew who the hell he was and thought Franklin would beat Anderson soundly, only to be shown how little they knew about MMA.
I honestly think his lack of English makes people not like him as well, as bad as that sounds. [/quote]
I was thinking the same thing, but then again, people love Fedor, and he speaks very limited English.
It just seemed like Anderson was feeling out Cote, since he knew the fight was scheduled for 5 rounds. When Anderson did attack, however, his shots were effective. I feel bad that Cote injured his knee, I wish him well in his recovery.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
MMA has the worst fans in the world. A guy who has torn through everyone in front of him doesn’t nuke a guys face off in 10 seconds and suddenly everyone goes from sucking his balls to hating him.
[/quote]
You’re not understanding the point. He was clowing around and running away for two rounds. It doesn’t make him any less talented or dominant. It just was not entertaining to watch. It looked like two guys fucking around after practice.
[quote]
Whoever was talking about Fedor bringing it everytime at max speed is being silly. He has deliberately drug many fights he was absolutely dominating out to a decision to get the safe victory. He spent the last round of Fedor-Nog III dancing around and running away. I dare you to watch Fedor-Schilt without falling asleep. Great fighters win fights.[/quote]
Argreed, but that performance sucked. People critized Bisbing for not engaging and fighting a defensive fight. This was much worse. I really don’t give a shit who wins or loses, I just want to see an exciting agressive fight. This was no where near an exciting or agressive performance from Silva. I have no doubt rounds 4 or 5 would have been different, but what we got to see was horse shit clowing around.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
MMA has the worst fans in the world. A guy who has torn through everyone in front of him doesn’t nuke a guys face off in 10 seconds and suddenly everyone goes from sucking his balls to hating him.
You’re not understanding the point. He was clowing around and running away for two rounds. It doesn’t make him any less talented or dominant. It just was not entertaining to watch. It looked like two guys fucking around after practice.
Whoever was talking about Fedor bringing it everytime at max speed is being silly. He has deliberately drug many fights he was absolutely dominating out to a decision to get the safe victory. He spent the last round of Fedor-Nog III dancing around and running away. I dare you to watch Fedor-Schilt without falling asleep. Great fighters win fights.
Argreed, but that performance sucked. People critized Bisbing for not engaging and fighting a defensive fight. This was much worse. I really don’t give a shit who wins or loses, I just want to see an exciting agressive fight. This was no where near an exciting or agressive performance from Silva. I have no doubt rounds 4 or 5 would have been different, but what we got to see was horse shit clowing around.
[/quote]
On one hand I understand your point that fights should be entertaining. Still I didn’t think Anderson was clowning around. Also fighters are there to win fights.
There is a huge difference between Bisping’s fight with Leben and Silva’s fight with Cote. Actually it would be better to compare Silva’s fight with Leben with Bisping’s fight with Leben. In both fights Leben was the aggressor. Both Bisping and Anderson were the ones stepping back and countering. Anderson was just much more effective because he is just a much better striker than Bisping. Anderson had Leben hurt thus was able to knock him out.
Bisping looked awkward in his fight with Leben but managed to execute his strategy. I am sure someone with better striking could make that fight look more entertaining. Bisping looked like he was in a hurry against Leben. If he had better distancing and timing he could have probably stayed in the pocket longer and dished out more punishment then step away just enough to put himself into position to counter again. Bsiping does not have that ability so it was not pretty or entertaining.
I like watching Silva. Watching him ply his skills is entertaining, so for me that does not mean he has to come out and swing for the fences and knock somebody out. Also Cote was the challenger, why didn’t HE come out aggressive? I have not read much criticism for Cote for those first two rounds. Was he just fighting to not get destroyed and last into the third round? Now that is worthy of criticism.
[quote]otoko wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
MMA has the worst fans in the world. A guy who has torn through everyone in front of him doesn’t nuke a guys face off in 10 seconds and suddenly everyone goes from sucking his balls to hating him.
You’re not understanding the point. He was clowing around and running away for two rounds. It doesn’t make him any less talented or dominant. It just was not entertaining to watch. It looked like two guys fucking around after practice.
Whoever was talking about Fedor bringing it everytime at max speed is being silly. He has deliberately drug many fights he was absolutely dominating out to a decision to get the safe victory. He spent the last round of Fedor-Nog III dancing around and running away. I dare you to watch Fedor-Schilt without falling asleep. Great fighters win fights.
Argreed, but that performance sucked. People critized Bisbing for not engaging and fighting a defensive fight. This was much worse. I really don’t give a shit who wins or loses, I just want to see an exciting agressive fight. This was no where near an exciting or agressive performance from Silva. I have no doubt rounds 4 or 5 would have been different, but what we got to see was horse shit clowing around.
On one hand I understand your point that fights should be entertaining. Still I didn’t think Anderson was clowning around. Also fighters are there to win fights.
There is a huge difference between Bisping’s fight with Leben and Silva’s fight with Cote. Actually it would be better to compare Silva’s fight with Leben with Bisping’s fight with Leben. In both fights Leben was the aggressor. Both Bisping and Anderson were the ones stepping back and countering. Anderson was just much more effective because he is just a much better striker than Bisping. Anderson had Leben hurt thus was able to knock him out.
Bisping looked awkward in his fight with Leben but managed to execute his strategy. I am sure someone with better striking could make that fight look more entertaining. Bisping looked like he was in a hurry against Leben. If he had better distancing and timing he could have probably stayed in the pocket longer and dished out more punishment then step away just enough to put himself into position to counter again. Bsiping does not have that ability so it was not pretty or entertaining.
I like watching Silva. Watching him ply his skills is entertaining, so for me that does not mean he has to come out and swing for the fences and knock somebody out. Also Cote was the challenger, why didn’t HE come out aggressive? I have not read much criticism for Cote for those first two rounds. Was he just fighting to not get destroyed and last into the third round? Now that is worthy of criticism.[/quote]
Cote was aggressive. He was chasing him the entire fight. At one point Silva was jogging around the ring.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Cote was aggressive. He was chasing him the entire fight. At one point Silva was jogging around the ring.
Did you see the fight?[/quote]
Umm…did you pay attention to the fight?..Cote barely touched Silva even when the shots were there. Silva reached and touched Cote on several occasions. Its easy to distinguish the average MMA fan from those who understand that sometimes a gameplan is actually used in CHAMPIONSHIP fights…this is not a Tough Man contest. Its a 5 round fight…why rush things when its VERY unnecessary.
Cote is the first opponent for Silva in the UFC that he actually had take their stand up seriously. ALSO anyone that actually watches and pays attention to Anderson Silva knows the he is the ultimate counter-striker…and VERY patient. He turns it up when the opportunities are there. He was trying to “bait” and see how Cote would react…maybe see if he could frustrate him as well. It worked well for you,lol.
Cote’s camp knew that coming in…it was reflected in their game plan. He didn’t want Cote to fight Silva’s fight…did you hear anything DellaGrotte said?? BUT Cote was no more aggressive than Silva those 2 rounds…and when DellaGrotte told Cote turn it up,he didn’t…until midway of the 2nd round. Did you lose money on this fight or something??? Almost like this is the first time you’ve every watched Silva fight…
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Cote was aggressive. He was chasing him the entire fight. At one point Silva was jogging around the ring.
Did you see the fight?
Umm…did you pay attention to the fight?..Cote barely touched Silva even when the shots were there. Silva reached and touched Cote on several occasions. Its easy to distinguish the average MMA fan from those who understand that sometimes a gameplan is actually used in CHAMPIONSHIP fights…this is not a Tough Man contest. Its a 5 round fight…why rush things when its VERY unnecessary.
[/quote] I am more than a casual fan. I have see almost all of the UFC and Pride fights, ever. I have most of them on DVD. I watch as much MMA as I can, including smaller shows on HDNET. I have seen every Silva fight available and think he is the P4P right now. That being said, this was his worst performance yet and I wass dissappointed.
You’re kidding right? How do you think Cote would do against Marquart, Henderson, or Franklin standing?
Agreed. That’s not was he was doing. He clowing around and running away. Not sure if it was some sort of protest for putting in against a guy that’s not even in the top ten or what?
I did not lose any money on the fight. I was expecting a quick KO by Silva. I don’t give a shit how strong your chin is, it’s only a matter of time if you can’t avoid damage.
Cote was moving forward the entire match. What Silva was doing was not part of the game plan. At least judging by the way his corner was reacting. Again, did you watch the fight?
Cote was aggressive. He was chasing him the entire fight. At one point Silva was jogging around the ring.
Did you see the fight?[/quote]
I saw the fight. Cote was not chasing Silva the entire fight. At one point Silva literally did jog. Still there was over ten minutes of fight and one instance of Silva literally jogging.
What Cote was doing was not what I would call being aggressive. When he went to engage Silva, meaning when he went to throw strikes at Silva with the idea of actually hitting Silva he was countered. In more than ten minutes of action an aggressive fighter would have thrown much more strikes, probably in combinations and in tandem with trying to cut off space in the cage. I do think that if Cote actually was aggressive he would have gotten beaten quickly. Watching the fight I got the feeling that he knew this.
Leben is aggressive.
I said you were expecting a quick ko. SO there was no quick ko therefore you are critical of Silva’s performance. That is fine I think. The problem is when people start to attach meanings to Silva’s actions and performance.
It is pretty simple. Silva took his time with Cote. He didn’t push the action. Cote was not very aggressive, when he did push the action Silva countered effectively. Cote has a hard head. Cote hurt his knee. Unsatisfying end to a fight.
The fact is also that Silva landed shots on Cote in both rounds that would have, and did, KO most of his opponents. Cote has a hard face. I don’t think Anderson’s performance was his finest but I don’t see at all why anyone could be hyper-critical of it. I think it’s just an extension of people’s unhappiness about the unfortunate way things ended.
Cote was aggressive. He was chasing him the entire fight. At one point Silva was jogging around the ring.
Did you see the fight?
I saw the fight. Cote was not chasing Silva the entire fight. At one point Silva literally did jog. Still there was over ten minutes of fight and one instance of Silva literally jogging.
[/quote]
I don’t mean to kick a dead horse here becuase Silva is one of my favorite fighters. The only one on my favorites list that is not a wrestler. That being said, it wasn’t just one instance of jogging. He dropped his hands and walked away more than a couple of times.
[/quote]
What Cote was doing was not what I would call being aggressive. When he went to engage Silva, meaning when he went to throw strikes at Silva with the idea of actually hitting Silva he was countered. In more than ten minutes of action an aggressive fighter would have thrown much more strikes, probably in combinations and in tandem with trying to cut off space in the cage. I do think that if Cote actually was aggressive he would have gotten beaten quickly. Watching the fight I got the feeling that he knew this.
Leben is aggressive.
I said you were expecting a quick ko. SO there was no quick ko therefore you are critical of Silva’s performance. That is fine I think. The problem is when people start to attach meanings to Silva’s actions and performance.
[/quote]
This is not the case. While I was watching the fight, I was asking myself what the hell he was doing. During the fight. I’ve seen enough of his fights and fights in general to know what counter striking looks like.
I am a Silva fan. This was not the worste fight I have seen by far, but it was the worst Silva fight I have seen. I understand that Silva fanboys aren’t going to like anyone criticizing his performance but I am going to call like I see it. I would bet that he has the same opinion I do when he watches his performance. I would bet we won’t see the same type of performance from him again.
I am a Silva fan. This was not the worste fight I have seen by far, but it was the worst Silva fight I have seen. I understand that Silva fanboys aren’t going to like anyone criticizing his performance but I am going to call like I see it. I would bet that he has the same opinion I do when he watches his performance. I would bet we won’t see the same type of performance from him again.[/quote]
I don’t think we are going to agree. That is fine.
I want to point out that Silva was confused by the criticism. He did point out that it was his strategy to go into the later rounds and that he was taking Cote seriously.
Silva did eventually apologize because people were upset with his performance. Unfortunately he can’t change perceptions. He apologized and wants to erase those perceptions.
I don’t think the critism is proportionate with the performance we saw.
I find it amusing that you categorize those who did not criticize Silva’s performance as fanboys and those that did criticize Silva as calling it like you see it.
