Does anyone know of Lesnar videos as an amateur wrestler? I was looking around, couldn’t find anything from his time at U of M.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Sure, he WAS good, some time ago in a sport that was not MMA nor Boxing/Thai Boxing. A manly sport, which required great physical prowess and athleticism but where the pressure of being brutalized in the face was not a factor.
Does Karam Gaber, for instance, ring a bell? Great talent, wrestling-technique wise lightyears ahead of Brock, but no MMA material.
I want to point out that a few guys here are blinded by his dazzling showwrestling corona. We’ll have to see if he’s champion material. Chances are, he is barely a middle tier GnP’er with great PR.
There, that is my observation. I don’t want to evolve this any further on my part, so feel free to have last words.[/quote]
I agree with most of what you have written but think it is difficult to compare Gaber to Lesnar. Greco is a completely different animal than folkstyle and arguably not nearly as effective of a transfer to MMA.
In that same vein, to assert Gaber is light years ahead of Lesnar is not comparing apples to apples. I treat with a chiro who was a National champ and three time Olympic medalist in Greco and know he would not attempt to make these kinds of comparisons on his own behalf because of the nature of the two disciplines.
Lastly I don’t understand why you even bothered to post this if you are not interested in discourse. I was just basically sharing what I know about Lesnar having been around him and spoke to his coaches. My thoughts on him have nothing to do with his tenure in WWE as quite honestly I think it is stupid and don’t follow it.
The proof is in the fight so we will have to see. I may be completely off base and he may get destroyed. That’s what makes these kind of discussions entertaining.
Anything can happen in a fight.
[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
Does anyone know of Lesnar videos as an amateur wrestler? I was looking around, couldn’t find anything from his time at U of M.[/quote]
Here is his 1999 NCAA finals loss to Stephen Neal
His 2000 NCAA finals win used to be on Youtube, but it appears to have been yanked.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
I’m very curious about Frank Mir and how he’s going to perform. I used to be a big fan of his pre-accident, and I think the fact the entire UFC is talking about Brock and ignoring him might be a very good motivator.
A good possibility, but I somehow doubt Mir will ever come back to contend again. From what I understand, Frank has a very good paying job as head of security at the Spearmint Rhino in Vegas. He doesn’t really need to fight, and he has to work extremely long hours late into the night at the club which precludes his training time. So if you are at the Rhino don’t touch the ladies or Frank will snap your arm off.[/quote]
Wow, I’m sure that job pays in more ways than one. I’ll be there in March, and I’ll say hi to Frank if he’s out of the hospital by then.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Does Karam Gaber, for instance, ring a bell? Great talent, wrestling-technique wise lightyears ahead of Brock, but no MMA material.[/quote]
Gaber is the exception, not the rule.
Guys like Severn, Frye, Couture, Lindland, Henderson, Coleman, Randleman, Kerr, Ortiz, Liddell, Hughes, Matsyushenko, Gardner, Koscheck, Fitch, Edgar, etc. have all shown that NCAA wrestling credentials often translate very well into MMA.
International wrestlers like Gaber have not shown the same degree of success, probably because Olympic wrestling styles (Greco, Freestyle) place little to no emphasis on ground control. NCAA (Folkstyle) wrestling places a huge emphasis on what happens after the match hits the ground. All of the successful Olympic wrestlers in MMA spent the first 10-15 years of their wrestling careers in Folkstyle.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
analog_kid wrote:
You right. Lesnar just dominates everything he does. I mean, look at his football career!
Either you are being a smart ass or you are a fucking idiot. Either way, I don’t have time or energy for your stupid shit as you sound like someone who has never competed in anything meaningful in their life.
The bottom line is we will see what happens Saturday. I suspect one of us will be busting the other’s balls, with just cause, on Monday.[/quote]
Holy fucking shit dude. Telling me my life is meaningless is obviously a very mature and intelligent response when you disagree with someone. I’ll begin seriously competing in cock push-ups so I can have a fucking opinion. Give your wife a kiss for me.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Steve4192 wrote:
Am I the only one who anticipates Lesnar will use the Rulon Gardner stratagem versus Mir?
That is actually a pretty good thought. However, Mir isn’t exactly a stadium champion in Thailand, but I think he’s a bit more risky to trade with than Yoshida. [/quote]
Yeah I’m sure I read an interview with big Timaaaaaah were he said Lesnar really didn’t like getting hit in training.
[quote]AdamC wrote:
Yeah I’m sure I read an interview with big Timaaaaaah were he said Lesnar really didn’t like getting hit in training. [/quote]
Brock trained at MFS for about two weeks when he first decided to make a career out of MMA a couple of years ago. I have a hard time judging the guy based on how he did in the first couple of sparring sessions he had ever done in his life.
What Tim said was that while he never sparred with Brock personally, the guys that did spar with him were not allowed to leg kick. I’m guessing the comments you heard were in relation to the ‘no leg kicks’ rule.
Of course, given that Brock had probably never thrown a real punch in his life at that time, one can understand why there were restrictions put in place for the guys sparring against him.
[quote]analog_kid wrote:
Holy fucking shit dude. Telling me my life is meaningless is obviously a very mature and intelligent response when you disagree with someone. I’ll begin seriously competing in cock push-ups so I can have a fucking opinion. Give your wife a kiss for me.
[/quote]
Well, then learn how to formulate an intelligent argument before you run your fucking mouth.
I wasn’t trying to tell you your life is meaningless but if that’s how you want to interpret it, go with it.
Using the idea that you can deadlift more and are bigger than GSP but he can still kick your ass is stupid and I suspect you are wrong on the DL, anyway.
I coach youth wrestlers and some of the high school kids powerlift with us in the off season. I have been in teh community long enough to have watched kids we thought were studs at the HS level not even come close to getting scholarships or getting meaningful mat time at Iowa or the U of M. To even make the team, let alone win a National championship at a D1 school is crazy.
It is a tremendously competitive sport at that level so to reduce the comments I made about Lesnar to size and strength is asinine and indicates to me you have never competed at a very high level because you have no respect for the drive, athelticism and work ethic it takes to get there.
Am I making myself clear enough, now?
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
I have been in teh community long enough to have watched kids we thought were studs at the HS level not even come close to getting scholarships or getting meaningful mat time at Iowa or the U of M. To even make the team, let alone win a National championship at a D1 school is crazy.
It is a tremendously competitive sport at that level so to reduce the comments I made about Lesnar to size and strength is asinine and indicates to me you have never competed at a very high level because you have no respect for the drive, athelticism and work ethic it takes to get there.
[/quote]
Signed. I have a buddy who was a great highschool wrestler (though a bit injury-plagued), walked on at ASU, and had the great fortune of wrestling Cael Sanderson 
To even COMPETE at that level is remarkable. To be a National Champion is a STUNNING accomplishment.
As far as the ‘football career’ comment: To give you an idea of how athletic these guys are, watch the above-posted video of Lesnar losing to Stephen Neal by 1 Point. Neal didn’t play football in college – at all. Guess what he’s doing this Sunday? Protecting Tom Brady as starting Right Guard for arguably the greatest football team ever assembled. In the video, Neal (a senior) beat Lesnar (a junior) by 1 point, and I believe was named the tournament’s Most Outstanding Wrestler (if I remember correctly, may be wrong).
Lesnar is a world-class athlete, without question. It’s not debatable. What remains to be seen is if he is a world-class fighter. The raw material is there…
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
analog_kid wrote:
Holy fucking shit dude. Telling me my life is meaningless is obviously a very mature and intelligent response when you disagree with someone. I’ll begin seriously competing in cock push-ups so I can have a fucking opinion. Give your wife a kiss for me.
Well, then learn how to formulate an intelligent argument before you run your fucking mouth.
I wasn’t trying to tell you your life is meaningless but if that’s how you want to interpret it, go with it.
Using the idea that you can deadlift more and are bigger than GSP but he can still kick your ass is stupid and I suspect you are wrong on the DL, anyway.
I coach youth wrestlers and some of the high school kids powerlift with us in the off season. I have been in teh community long enough to have watched kids we thought were studs at the HS level not even come close to getting scholarships or getting meaningful mat time at Iowa or the U of M. To even make the team, let alone win a National championship at a D1 school is crazy.
It is a tremendously competitive sport at that level so to reduce the comments I made about Lesnar to size and strength is asinine and indicates to me you have never competed at a very high level because you have no respect for the drive, athelticism and work ethic it takes to get there.
Am I making myself clear enough, now?
[/quote]
Sorry hombre, but I don’t roll that way. Running my “fucking” mouth is just how I bring my deranged ideas to T-Nation. If it gets you all worked up, just ignore me. I’m not going to censor myself, but you certainly shouldn’t get your lifting drawers all in a bunch over my dipshit sarcastic comments.
Secondly, I don’t think I ever doubted Lesnar’s work ethic or talent. I was simply trying to make the point that size and strength isn’t the end all be all of MMA.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Sure, he WAS good, some time ago in a sport that was not MMA nor Boxing/Thai Boxing. A manly sport, which required great physical prowess and athleticism but where the pressure of being brutalized in the face was not a factor.
Does Karam Gaber, for instance, ring a bell? Great talent, wrestling-technique wise lightyears ahead of Brock, but no MMA material.
I want to point out that a few guys here are blinded by his dazzling showwrestling corona. We’ll have to see if he’s champion material. Chances are, he is barely a middle tier GnP’er with great PR.
There, that is my observation. I don’t want to evolve this any further on my part, so feel free to have last words.[/quote]
That is definitely a possibility, and that kind of thing has always been my big question regarding wrestlers starting MMA. I think it is a valid point. However, I’d also like to point out that I never did watch him in WWF. I and most others are drawing on his real wrestling background. Lesnar’s completely obsessive work ethic speaks volumes. It’s what got him to NCAA champ, 'cause it sure wasn’t technique. Others had better, but he was and is a monster with an obsessive drive. That’s what I love about him, and that’s what I’m hoping turns him into a real deal HW.
However, as mentioned before, Mir has never really had it when under intense face-beating pressure, and is not a traditional threat from the feet. Lesnar excels in applying pressure (taken from NCAA wrestling, not WWF). Whether he can do that in the octagon or not remains to be seen, but if he does it effectively (without flailing wildly and inaccurately), Mir wilts under the onslaught and will be taken out unless he gets it to the ground quickly where he is a definite critical threat against an inexperienced ground fighter like Brock.
[quote]analog_kid wrote:
Sorry hombre, but I don’t roll that way. Running my “fucking” mouth is just how I bring my deranged ideas to T-Nation. If it gets you all worked up, just ignore me. I’m not going to censor myself, but you certainly shouldn’t get your lifting drawers all in a bunch over my dipshit sarcastic comments.
Secondly, I don’t think I ever doubted Lesnar’s work ethic or talent. I was simply trying to make the point that size and strength isn’t the end all be all of MMA.
[/quote]
Hmm. Alright. I speak sarcasm and have certainly made some dipshit comments my self. The internet is a challenging forum for shit like that and it is hard to determine where somebody is coming from.
I’m not really in that big of a twist. It’s just how I communicate. I am probably at about level 3 right now. No big deal.
I’ll see you back here after the fight. Actually, all this back and forth has made me more excited than I was before.
Lesnar wins by F5ing Mir 3x.
what is this f5ing?
Brock’s WWE “finishing” move.
There’s 0%, absolutely no chance that any one of these crazy moves could be used in MMA. Of course, I think I’d die laughing if Brock actually DID pull some weird show-wrestling move on Mir. I think that would make my month. Like I said, I don’t like to watch it, but some twisted part of me really really wants to see Lesnar do something crazy like that or a flying elbow drop and get away with it. I’d be in hysterics for weeks.
Somehow, I doubt Lesnar’s been training the F-5, although it would be hilarious if he actually attempted it in a fight.
He probably does have the ability to pull off some slams ala Rampage.
Speaking of wrestling moves, I totally forgot how Sapp threw Nogueria around like a rag doll in their fight. Good lord that was crazy seeing him powerbomb and slam Nog.
Anyone watch the Lesnar all access tonight on spike? Ive watched just about all of these that have aired and for his sake I hope that was months prior to the fight. I just dont see him pulling off the victory.
Having said that Mir’s work ethic has never been top notch either. (I’m not saying that Lesnar doenst have the work ethic, just that I dont seem him doing all that terribly well.)
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
analog_kid wrote:
Sorry hombre, but I don’t roll that way. Running my “fucking” mouth is just how I bring my deranged ideas to T-Nation. If it gets you all worked up, just ignore me. I’m not going to censor myself, but you certainly shouldn’t get your lifting drawers all in a bunch over my dipshit sarcastic comments.
Secondly, I don’t think I ever doubted Lesnar’s work ethic or talent. I was simply trying to make the point that size and strength isn’t the end all be all of MMA.
Hmm. Alright. I speak sarcasm and have certainly made some dipshit comments my self. The internet is a challenging forum for shit like that and it is hard to determine where somebody is coming from.
I’m not really in that big of a twist. It’s just how I communicate. I am probably at about level 3 right now. No big deal.
I’ll see you back here after the fight. Actually, all this back and forth has made me more excited than I was before.
[/quote]
I’m really glad to see this, all the name calling yesterday was getting on my nerves.lol
p.s. Just watched the Min Soo Kim fight, and while I can fully appreciate how horrible a guy with that kind of strength can make you feel when he’s on top op you, I hope he brings more than that to Frank Mir or it will be a short night for him. He passed quickly, and his punches were enough to cause his opponent to tap, but for all of his monsterous strength he failed to break the body lock and posture up to really cause some damage. Of course with his athletic backround and training he’s sure to have improved since then.
[quote]LillGuy001 wrote:
Anyone watch the Lesnar all access tonight on spike? Ive watched just about all of these that have aired and for his sake I hope that was months prior to the fight. I just dont see him pulling off the victory.
Having said that Mir’s work ethic has never been top notch either. (I’m not saying that Lesnar doenst have the work ethic, just that I dont seem him doing all that terribly well.)[/quote]
I’m not sure if we watched the same one if you got the impression that Brock isn’t training hard…from my perspective he was busting his ass to get ready for this fight.