Silva isn’t gonna play with him this time. People keep forgetting the fight turned when Silva slipped. Up to that point he was literally catching Sonnen’s kicks and flipping him around. If this goes past the 1st or 2nd round I’d be shocked. Silva by massive KO.
[quote]humble wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
A nice one by Jack Slack. Some good points made here.[/quote]
LMAO
This guy is retarded, trying to break a fight down into tiny pieces and justify his analysis with video snap shots.
Fact is, fighting is not in snap shots. Fighting is a combination of many factors.
The fact that most fighters are insanely robotic, predictable and rehash the same old techniques just with more speed or power or with more repetitive endurance is what makes most fighters beat others now days.
However, Silva doesn’t fall into this category as he has a creative ability when he fights which compliments his other otherwise same abilities other fighters have.
Every fighter can throw a front kick, a jab, a cross, a basic take down and so on. How you piece them all together, the angles you do them from and when you do them is a different thing altogether.
To assume a fight has to evolve a certain way only is dumb shit and the reason why Anderson keeps winning is he doesn’t sport you even though he is very sportsmanlike. He fights you and beats you.
Most of the guys are just MMA trainees. Anderson is a natural and creative fighter and to analyse him the way that guy did in ‘snapshots’ is plain fucken amateur.
[/quote]
I think you underestimate the importance of technique and strategy.
Personally I’ve had great success sparring with much more athletic professionals just by using better strategies; and I’m not hugely athletic at all.
You could call it retarded and talk about how it’s all magic. Or you could train a little, read a little and try to pick up the importance of strategy.
oh humble’s “trained a little” alright, hahah.
I’m pretty sure he’s a pro HW kickboxer or something.
I actually have a bad feeling that this fight will be kinda boring, with Silva staying at range and winning on points.
[quote]krazylarry wrote:
I actually have a bad feeling that this fight will be kinda boring, with Silva staying at range and winning on points. [/quote]
Nah…not going to happen with Sonnen. He puts on too much pressure…and I highly doubt he’s going to sit back in range with Silva. If he does…he will share the same fate as his buddy Okami’s rematch with Silva. Sonnen will be in his face…and I see him taking Silva down again…but still getting submitted eventually. His top game sucks ass.
sweep, back mount choke? maybe.
my hope is that chael eats a knee on the way in much like the Newton fight. if they clinch i doubt it will be like the franklin/silva fight, that type of lock up and sonnen will fuck wrestle him down.
the more i listen to chael the more i kinda like him…still hope he gets smashed. we’ll see.
[quote]guhkes wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
[quote]guhkes wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
A nice one by Jack Slack. Some good points made here.[/quote]
Really good read. Nice to see how their second meeting goes and does it back up Slacks observations.
On the side note. I hope Silva stops Sonnen, preferably in later rounds after punishing him from head to toe. I just want to see if Sonnen has the capability to be humble after that or does he just run his mouth again like a sore loser. Don’t get me wrong. He is funny and entertaining, but to put down a whole nation for one fight is just stupid allthough everyone knows he is just selling his fight.[/quote]
If we’re going by Slack’s observations, it comes down to him squaring his hips and not being ready for the rear left straights Sonnen kept landing. I’m just guessing here (because I don’t know shit about boxing), but I think it’s an adjustment he’ll make. Perhaps he’ll switch to orthodox and work his single leg defense?
I’m also guessing Sonnen is going to have a lot of trouble anticipating those adjustments. The majority of his failures lay in his ground work (not passing, allowing wrist control, leaving his arms out in guard). And it was obvious Anderson wasn’t as mobile on his back as he usually is (rib injury?). Tough fight for him once again.[/quote]
You’re probably right about Silva making changes. I bet a great fighter like Silva can switch to orthodox stance for this fight and get the win. And I think that would exactly back up Slacks observations.
I really hope this doesn’t turn in to another Silva - Maia fight, Silva trying to avoid comitting himself too much.[/quote]
Here is Randy Couture’s take on the matter. And interesting one as he sees the benefit changing tactics being on Silvas side.
lol I was just about to post that. The rest of that interview was money btw.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]krazylarry wrote:
I actually have a bad feeling that this fight will be kinda boring, with Silva staying at range and winning on points. [/quote]
Nah…not going to happen with Sonnen. He puts on too much pressure…and I highly doubt he’s going to sit back in range with Silva. If he does…he will share the same fate as his buddy Okami’s rematch with Silva. Sonnen will be in his face…and I see him taking Silva down again…but still getting submitted eventually. His top game sucks ass.[/quote]
Agreed, though I wouldn’t say it sucks per se. He does certain things really well (flattening, transitions, stifling full guard). On the flipside, other than a nice pass-mount sequence in the Stann fight, he’s not a great passer (see Marquardt, Silva fights), and he routinely gives up that God damn triangle (same setup no less, Paul Sass would have a field day with him).
[quote]rundymc wrote:
oh humble’s “trained a little” alright, hahah.
I’m pretty sure he’s a pro HW kickboxer or something.[/quote]
Really? It seems strange that he’d be so dismissive of strategy and posture then…
Not to derail the thread, but Couture comes across as a really intelligent guy. Enjoyed that interview.
[quote]Jack Slack wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
oh humble’s “trained a little” alright, hahah.
I’m pretty sure he’s a pro HW kickboxer or something.[/quote]
Really? It seems strange that he’d be so dismissive of strategy and posture then…[/quote]
He’s got like 15-20 years of experience in Muay Thai and fought before just to let your know.
I didn’t read your article. Too long and didn’t interest me. Just now realized you wrote it. Humble is talking about being creative and adaptive in a fight which I think most guys (including me) don’t have. I think this falls under strategy. You can throw guys off by being creative and adapting to their gameplan if you know what you’re doing. I also think he’s just saying you can break a fight down as much as you want but that’s not going to ensure you find a way to beat someone like Silva who will adapt on the fly to what you’re doing. Jon Jones also has this creative/adaptive ability too.
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
Hahaha! Anderson just can’t wait to finish Chael. Fucking awesome. And damn it, my man Sonnen didn’t even stare back at Silva. He just looked away. WTF??! What’s going on? Is he feeling a bit nervous already? C’mon, Chael!
[quote]rundymc wrote:
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]krazylarry wrote:
I actually have a bad feeling that this fight will be kinda boring, with Silva staying at range and winning on points. [/quote]
Nah…not going to happen with Sonnen. He puts on too much pressure…and I highly doubt he’s going to sit back in range with Silva. If he does…he will share the same fate as his buddy Okami’s rematch with Silva. Sonnen will be in his face…and I see him taking Silva down again…but still getting submitted eventually. His top game sucks ass.[/quote]
Agreed, though I wouldn’t say it sucks per se. He does certain things really well (flattening, transitions, stifling full guard). On the flipside, other than a nice pass-mount sequence in the Stann fight, he’s not a great passer (see Marquardt, Silva fights), and he routinely gives up that God damn triangle (same setup no less, Paul Sass would have a field day with him). [/quote]
True…I made that blanket statement about his top game because it hasn’t improved at all since being in UFC. His biggest hope is to repeat the first fight. But I just don’t see it working in his favor to do that for 5 rounds. I know he worked with Vinny M during camp for his BJJ. But we will see if it improved his top game awareness . His style would benefit from some power behind his punches and more elbows from top…but he just doesn’t have that power. I really think he will get triangled again
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
Hahaha! Anderson just can’t wait to finish Chael. Fucking awesome. And damn it, my man Sonnen didn’t even stare back at Silva. He just looked away. WTF??! What’s going on? Is he feeling a bit nervous already? C’mon, Chael!
[/quote]
Yeah…I noticed some of Chael’s fans were disappointed that he didn’t keep up his “schtick” when he was face to face with Silva…lol.
He never looked Silva in the eye during the staredown before their first fight either. Chael apparently just doesn’t do eyeballing.
None of this matters.
3 days and counting down…
[quote]Jack Slack wrote:
I think you underestimate the importance of technique and strategy.
Personally I’ve had great success sparring with much more athletic professionals just by using better strategies; and I’m not hugely athletic at all.
You could call it retarded and talk about how it’s all magic. Or you could train a little, read a little and try to pick up the importance of strategy.[/quote]
On the contrary, I don’t underestimate it at all but I have seen guys steam rolled who were otherwise schooled to the tee on strategy and had impeccable technique.
I hate repeating it but it rings so true, as Tyson said " Everyone has a plan until they get smacked in the face".
I’ve fought and beaten guys who I wasn’t meant to beat and lost to guys who I wasn’t meant to lose to.
You simply cannot weave a fight like tapestry unless you have skills which differentiate you from others.
Sure, Sonnen put a 4 round smack down on Silva and anyone else would have lost their title but Silva has ability beyond the average run of the mill fighters.
Skill? He matches anyone out there.
Speed? Again near anyone else out there
Timing? Far above the rest
Technique? Never a better more relaxed and natural technician
Power? Mixed with the above he doesn’t even need much of it but still has more than enough.
A mind that works well with his central nervous system to adapt, create, manoeuvre, and strategise DURING a fight as opposed to before a fight? I believe he is one of the leaders in MMA in this area.
The combination of all the above makes him a very far off benchmark for fighters to come close to.
His natural, relaxed and poised nature, well balanced lifestyle, happiness outside of the ring all also make him a weapon of a fighter. You cannot discount these traits in your opponent.
Fireball, mongrel style fighters are good for time before they burn themselves out. It’s the poised, relaxed and well adjusted individuals that succeed in all fields.
Firecrackers sparkle, fizz off, bang and then drop back down to earth in their lifeless misery.
Chael is an intelligent person but he is too Americanised. I wish to see all that intelligence poured back into his demeanour. If he quit the trash talk, as entertaining as it is and used that energy to bring him into balance and for his training, it would benefit him more.
You cannot do those things, even if it is for hype and expect your emotional and spiritual state to remain calm. If this were truly the way he was as an individual, he would have stared right back at Silva and made an incident of the thing but Silva called his bluff at the meeting and Sonnen broke down red faced.
The reason why I rubbished that guy’s analysis is that it was too robotic and lacking in true analysis.
Fights are dynamic, not pre-sugested movements. If that were the case, Karate wins all the time because they do so much of it it’s not funny.
But it’s not the case.
Anyone who discounts Silva’s technique or thinks those snapshots prove his weaknesses have not done enough fighting to understand movement, angles, fight dynamics, footwork, body posture, absorption of attacks, counter attacks, balance, timing and a host of other important factors during a fight.
Silva is the type of intelligent fighter that will kick a few times and notice the way you absorb a kick and then make a mid air adjustment to catch you off guard or capitalise on your weakness. Some of those kicks may not live up to Sanchai’s or Master Rhee’s technique standards but they were never meant to because this is not Muay Thai or Taekwondo.
Kicking is just a small example.
He has incredible evasion skills and great footwork and to try and break down his weaknesses with snapshots of inter-fight/inter-technique movement is not credible or applicable in the real world.
Not harping on myself but I have a better jab than a cross. My weight transfer is mostly correct on my cross, my technique above average and my bodyweight is over 230 pounds but I haven’t dropped many people with it.
My Jab on the other hand I have dropped many people with and when you look at it in videos it is anything but the perfect refined traditional technique jab. But that’s the point, it doesn’t have to be and really, for it to be effective, it shouldn’t be otherwise every guy would know it’s coming, every guy would counter it and I would rarely throw it to protect myself.
One of the first things all my opponents have said is that they just couldn’t see it coming and it annoyed the fuck out of them.
I believe Silva finished Forrest with a jab himself!
GSP made Koshcheck look like he’d never fought before with just a jab. He worked that punch with Freddie until it was damn near impossible to detect. His footwork for that fight was impeccable and he had Koshchecks number from post to post. That wasn’t a normal straight up and down technique. It was tweaked and unorthodox and it worked.
What then of a fighter who has that type of ability with most of his techniques?
I mean seriously, their is a trail of casualties he’s left behind where his uncanny technique has proven itself and to analyse him like that guy did, as I mentioned is very amateur and lacking in true understanding of fight dynamics.
Silva will defeat him convincingly this time and Sonnen will never be the same
See here’s where we disagree. You mention “pre-suggested movement” but there really isn’t any of that in the article. For instance, a basic breakdown of the one he did on the Silva-Griffin fight comes down to this:
-Silva lands a lead right hook on Griffin with consistency because Griffin consistently drops his lead left after a jab.
And it’s true. Was it the only reason Silva destroyed him? Was it the reason he looked like he was in the Matrix? Of course not. Silva’s footwork, handspeed, ability to manage distance, and surely, his dynamism factor in. But it was a big part of the reason he landed that punch.
Perhaps these analyses are robotic to you out of your own… uh stylistic?.. preferences. Personally I’m not sure how he’d come off LESS robotic doing these breakdowns, hahah.
Striking breakdown I found off the UG.
Edit: hope it works now