UFC 106 Matchups

Training
101

[quote]Deorum wrote:
having had a ufc title does not make you a credible fighter. saying so makes me very uneasy to have a discussion on mma with you…

for instance tim silvia is fucking horrible by all standards. but if i said that about a year ago the same defense given to tito would have been given to tim silvia - hell some of you might still defend him?

he like tito has some wins over some decent fighters but ill give the same offer i gave on tito’s upcoming fights for tim’s. any legit fights of his coming up, lets throw money down.[/quote]

Tim Silvia would give most heavyweights a tough fight Tito would give most light heavies a tough fight. Until Rua came along Tito had the best showing of any fighter against Machida in recent times. Tito outfought Rashad and only drew because of a point deduction for an instinctive fence grab. Tito just fought Griffen to a tight split decision coming off an 18 month lay off.

Previous champs were amongst the best MMA fighters on the planet at that time. Yes most modern champs are more rounded than most previous champs but they were still the champ for a reason.

You are clearly showing a lack of maturity and understanding of MMA.

102

[quote]Deorum wrote:
Also im confused as to some of you think tito’s belt was relevant in him being a good fighter. First of all he was undeserving of the UFC belt he held; there were two people in the UFC ALONE who were just waiting to hand tito his ass. Tito was never even in the same LEAGUE as randy or even chuck.

Now if the UFC was all MMA was at the time i could see somebody making a tito is decent argument but thats just that. THE UFC WASNT EVEN THE TOP OF MMA AT THE TIME. Jesus so many fighters in pride would have made tito look childish as well.

This is why im calling those defending tito, UFC fan boys and unworthy of having an MMA discussion. Tito was “decent” in the UFC and IRRELEVANT in the sport of MMA. [/quote]

Which Pride fighters are you talking about? I can see Shogun as an argument Hendo I think Tito could still beat now. Wanderlei has already lost to Tito so who are you suggesting?

103

[quote]Deorum wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Deorum wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Deorum wrote:
having had a ufc title does not make you a credible fighter. saying so makes me very uneasy to have a discussion on mma with you…

for instance tim silvia is fucking horrible by all standards. but if i said that about a year ago the same defense given to tito would have been given to tim silvia - hell some of you might still defend him?

he like tito has some wins over some decent fighters but ill give the same offer i gave on tito’s upcoming fights for tim’s. any legit fights of his coming up, lets throw money down.

Goddamn your reading comprehension is absolutely terrible. How would a future fight validate your point that Tito was not one of the best fighters in the division 5 or 10 years ago?

Oh god the irony.

Explain the irony that is SO obvious with slimjim pointing out your ignorance. You talk a lot…EXCEPT when you’re called on your bullshit.

lmfao this really wasn’t a joke? I’m talking about tim sylvia and he brings up tito again talking about how bad MY reading comprehension is.

What you gonna shake slimjim’s dick after he pees next?

Anyway there is noway to “validate” a point on the past that is why im putting my fucking money where my mouth is and betting on the future. A good fighter doesn’t roll over and die in his early 30’s and if you truly believed tito “was” good then betting on his future shouldn’t be an issue.

And if it somehow IS an issue, then at least admit at the present, tito is completely insignificant.

[/quote]

Bait-and-switching,diverting your own argument,and arguing childish semantics are definitely signs of a pussy boy. As is the horrible misuse of “irony.”

All that straw in your ass and mouth can’t be comfortable. You’re the only one who doesn’t know it’s there…obviously. I wish this were an actual room of discussion…only so I could see you laughed out of the room by everyone.

This will be entertaining.

104

to cockney let me throw together a list off hand.

couture
liddell
Machida
Henderson
Arona
Rampage
Sakuraba
Matyushenko(first fight was a joke)
Babalu
(frank)shamrock

off the top of my head 10 fighters who would have beaten tito at the time of his holding the belt. and sorry for all the names im forgetting. many names who would have beaten tito at the time are done fighting or are just not names that have stuck in my head.

today the list would be much bigger.

And btw when I say “not good” or “mediocre” I mean not in the top 10 in weight class. Many have a different definition of mediocre or good I understand.

105

Oh and Big_Boss your a complete joke.

106

Oh wait…there is some hypocrisy in arguing Tito as an overrated LHW fighter and champ and at the same time claiming Couture as being in a “league” of dominant LHW fighters.

IRONIC. Or is it just me?

107

lmfao big_boss you are a complete joke.

108

[quote]Deorum wrote:
Oh and Big_Boss your a complete joke.[/quote]

LOL…shouldn’t you be proving this instead of childishly saying so?

109

[quote]Deorum wrote:
lmfao big_boss you are a complete joke.[/quote]

yeah…but you still know who’s the big boss. Say it again.

See…that was a joke.

edit Also…it’s IRONIC that in your quest to expose Tito for being the “bitch” that he is…you only exposed yourself as one.

110

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

Bait-and-switching,diverting your own argument,and arguing childish semantics are definitely signs of a pussy boy. As is the horrible misuse of “irony.”

All that straw in your ass and mouth can’t be comfortable. You’re the only one who doesn’t know it’s there…obviously. I wish this were an actual room of discussion…only so I could see you laughed out of the room by everyone.

This will be entertaining. [/quote]

Really you should just pm me if you you really want to continue your childish argument… Besides calling me a pussy boy and a bitch over the internet(congrats on being a passive aggressive, cowardly, fraction of a man by the way) you have said something along the lines of tito was once good or great, then i asked what he is now to which you haven’t responded. Also your reasoning for his being good or great is holding a past UFC title… really i should have ended the argument there but i continued and i gave an example of how the UFC title didn’t equate to a good fighter untill VERY recently. Then you started throwing around pussy boys and i assumed you were done the argument and wanted me to laugh at you. I’m sorry if that wasn’t your intent.

Anyway continue your bitching via pm, return to the original subject, or don’t expect me to respond to you with more than “you are a joke”.

111

[quote]Deorum wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

Bait-and-switching,diverting your own argument,and arguing childish semantics are definitely signs of a pussy boy. As is the horrible misuse of “irony.”

All that straw in your ass and mouth can’t be comfortable. You’re the only one who doesn’t know it’s there…obviously. I wish this were an actual room of discussion…only so I could see you laughed out of the room by everyone.

This will be entertaining.

Really you should just pm me if you you really want to continue your childish argument… Besides calling me a pussy boy and a bitch over the internet(congrats on being a passive aggressive, cowardly, fraction of a man by the way) you have said something along the lines of tito was once good or great, then i asked what he is now to which you haven’t responded. Also your reasoning for his being good or great is holding a past UFC title… really i should have ended the argument there but i continued and i gave an example of how the UFC title didn’t equate to a good fighter untill VERY recently. Then you started throwing around pussy boys and i assumed you were done the argument and wanted me to laugh at you. I’m sorry if that wasn’t your intent.

Anyway continue your bitching via pm, return to the original subject, or don’t expect me to respond to you with more than “you are a joke”.
[/quote]

This pretty much calls for the EXACT post to which you are responding.

I didn’t respond because it’s fucking obvious in my words that I don’t feel Tito is the fighter he once was…WHICH was the ENTIRE point of others…the same “others” which you childishly jumped on for even alluding that Tito WAS ever a good fighter. Do have such a short sight that you need to be reminded of why you started this whole debate?

I’m trying to see where I have veered from the subject…which is YOU and YOUR argument. My most logical arguments YOU haven’t responded to other than with “lol” and the other weak tactics mentioned above…which you are still IRONICALLY displaying now.

Why do you want to be PM’d and be bothered with a “childish argument?” Sounds stupid as fuck…that is what the forum is for…open-discussion. If YOU can’t handle that…then get the fuck out. Plain and simple. You came into this thread with a correct example of PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE(correct use,moron) cheap-shots…and now you can’t handle name calling. I knew there was a reason why I called you what I did. Passive-aggressive my ass…you are pussy material. But that’s okay…you will grow up eventually. We all do.

NOW to continue: How was Tito a mediocre-at-best LHW fighter/champ…YET Couture can be in the “league” with dominant LHW fighters/champs??

I guess you missed the first time I addressed this.

112

I already posted a list of fighters offhand who would have beaten tito in his prime. 2002 or so if i recall(the year alludes me the fighters who were active are still pretty vivid). I’m not exactly sure if i understand what your asking but Randy Couture most definitely was at one time a champion at light heavy weight. Tito was so outclassed by Randy it wasn’t like he just knocked him out quickly, he took his time and dominated him for all 5 rounds. I honestly do not understand your question so i didn’t respond to it the first time.

113

[quote]Deorum wrote:
to cockney let me throw together a list off hand.

couture
liddell
Machida
Henderson
Arona
Rampage
Sakuraba
Matyushenko(first fight was a joke)
Babalu
(frank)shamrock

off the top of my head 10 fighters who would have beaten tito at the time of his holding the belt. and sorry for all the names im forgetting. many names who would have beaten tito at the time are done fighting or are just not names that have stuck in my head.

today the list would be much bigger.

And btw when I say “not good” or “mediocre” I mean not in the top 10 in weight class. Many have a different definition of mediocre or good I understand. [/quote]

I asked for fighters in Pride as that was your claim.

At the time that Ortiz was Champ, Machida had never fought (wouldn’t have his debut for another 2 years)

Hendo I already mentioned, he lost to Wanderlei a couple of months after Tito beat him (MMA maths I know)

Arona I agree would have been a tough fight. Could have gone either way. Arona has a close fought win over Tito in ADCC.

Rampage has always been a tough fight for anyone, could have gone either way again.

Sakuraba, who knows had some spectacular wins and some total beatdowns during that era.

Matyushenko, would have to watch that fight again, for some reason I don’t remember it.

I am not saying that Tito was head and shoulders above the competition when he held the belt, clearly that is not the case. But he was one of the top fighters in the world at the time and even today he is a tough fight for anyone.

114

[quote]Deorum wrote:
to cockney let me throw together a list off hand.

couture
liddell
Machida
Henderson
Arona
Rampage
Sakuraba
Matyushenko(first fight was a joke)
Babalu
(frank)shamrock
[/quote]

Tito was doing quite well in that first fight against Frank, he lost because of his then crappy gas tank. He would have taken a rematch.
Babalu, well I disagree there… strongly
Sakuraba, Page and Arona would have all been competitive fights, but I would have given Tito the edge in them.

Page would have had the best chance back them since he’d ‘Liddel’ the fuck out of Ortiz. The other two only are bad matchups for him, but would lose if he decided to keep it standing (big if). Edit: Saku would have got royally fucked on second thought. Remember what Arona did to him, and recall that Arona was the definition of a blanket.

Machida’s been touched on
Henderson? yup I agree, bad matchup, but the size difference would have been a factor, as it was in the Hendo-Page fight.

You’re arguing that Tito Ortiz has some sort of paper legacy, based on what is a lack of dominance. Dominance is not the only thing factored into a legacy. Context is everything. Couture will never be remembered as a dominant champion, nor will Big Nog. Their legacies come from their performances and the context of their fights.

Ortiz’s legacy comes from being the UFC’s first real draw, and a long reigning champion (who remains extremely competitive today.)
Perhaps your apprehension comes from what you see is an overly hyped legacy, in which case you would have to include Couture in the discussion as well.

115

okay, i just saw the Griffin-Ortiz rematch (yeah, i tend to DVR stuff and watch it a couple months later)…

Tito is not his old self. his claims kinda make me wonder about his “back injury”…maybe he was hurt, but i think it’s weird how hyped up his recovery is and it’s the first time i’ve seen him gas in years. Forest picked him apart in the 3rd…it was almost like a pro vs amatueur.

also, Forest looks like about 15 lbs heavier than their first fight, so this is one of the few times that Tito prolly hasn’t had a definitive size/strength advantage in a while…

i’ll post my up-to-date review of Foreman-Alli next! :wink: