UFC 106 Matchups

Training
41

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:

I could have seen giving the first two rounds to Tito honestly. But I think you’re right, Forrest stole the fight (or maybe more appropriately Tito gave it away) in that last round. The judge who scored it 30-27 for Griffin was smokin something though.

How did Tito win two rounds, or that matter even the one round? Griffin nullified Tito’s game on the ground, and won convincingly on the feet, which was very impressive. Griffin really only took a couple of nasty elbows (on the ground) and as you know he cuts easy anyway. The most impressive part of the fight was when Griffin actually reversed Tito on the ground and began a ground and pound attack of his own.

I could see all three rounds going to Griffin. How did one judge actually have Tito winning the fight? No really, it makes me think that this judge is either stupid, doesn’t know the game, or was bought and paid for.

Tito lost that fight with no question, none at all. For him to say that he was robbed just speaks to his immaturity, which has always been a hallmark of his.

“I’d like to see you guys fight with a cracked skull and a ruptured C6 vertabra”.

Um, shut up Tito.

But, the over all UFC judging is very questionable as of late.

Yeah, I agree that he didn’t win the fight. I can honestly see possibly giving him round 1 as it was a pretty even round. But, I’d say he definitely won the second round.[/quote]

You think Tito won the second round? The round where he kicked Tito’s mouth piece out of his mouth? The round where he reversed Tito on the ground and began feeding Tito his elbow, that round? How’d he do it? Also, whenever they were on their feet Griffin got the best of him. I just watched the fight again and if someone wanted to say that Tito won the first round, well okay, but I gave it to Griffin. But, no way did Tito win the second or third round. The fight got progressively worse for Tito as the minutes ticked away. He just didn’t have the tools to deal with a more well rounded fighter like Griffin. Anyway Sento watch round two again if nothing else. Seeing it again I bet you’ll come to the same conclusion that I did.

[quote]
Now, had he not just stood there in the third round and actually tried to win the fight, I could see his protest. But IMO the judges are generally not going to award a decision to someone who chooses to just stand there for the entire final round (well until maybe 10 seconds are left) and not try to finish the fight, or really even engage at all.[/quote]

He was tired and whipped so he just stood there.

On a side note, I think everyone has Tito figured out at this point. He claims that he’s been working his striking but I don’t see it. Maybe it was just ring rust, but I doubt it. Tito will take you down if he can and throw fists and elbows, that’s the beginning, middle and end of his game. I will say the same thing about him as I have Matt Hughes, mma has moved beyond what these two warriors have to offer, at least at the championship level. There are many fighters currently at or near the top who offer a very well rounded game, Tito will never have that. Don’t get me wrong he can hang around and fight 5 more fights (UFC contract I believe) but he’s not beating anyone of substance. Tito had his day and it was glorious, but the day is past.

42

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Tito had his day and it was glorious, but the day is past.
[/quote]

well said.

43

here are the fights i saw:

George Sotiropoulos vs. Jason Dent
Brock Larson vs. Brian Foster
Kendall Grove vs. Jake Rosholt
Ben Saunders vs. Marcus Davis

-Sotiropoulos looked good. he has worked a lot on his standup, and it showed. he still needs to integrate his new found stand up skills and jujitsu, but i think he’s gonna continue to be good. Dent didn’t have a bad showing-he just got outclassed. Dent is one of those weird white trash looking guys who can fight like a bastard. many guys would’ve tapped in Rd 1, and it didn’t seem to faze him. if he gets with agood camp and make a concetrated effort to improve his game, i think he’ll have acontniued future in the uFC.

-Larson looked terrible. i don’t recall ever seeing him looking so tentative and ineffective. i guess at least it didn’t go another round, since he would’ve lost anyway wtih 2 penalty pts.

-i thought Grove vs. Rosholt was gonna be a boring, 3 rd decision, and both guys went after it. Grove looked good with those transitions

-i like Davis, and i like Saunders. Saunders is just too tall, too aggressive and a helluva lot younger. Davis still has a few fights in him, but needs to stop taking so much punishment, and settle in to his career as gatekeeper.

44

here are the fights i saw:

George Sotiropoulos vs. Jason Dent
Brock Larson vs. Brian Foster
Kendall Grove vs. Jake Rosholt
Ben Saunders vs. Marcus Davis

-Sotiropoulos looked good. he has worked a lot on his standup, and it showed. he still needs to integrate his new found stand up skills and jujitsu, but i think he’s gonna continue to be good. Dent didn’t have a bad showing-he just got outclassed. Dent is one of those weird white trash looking guys who can fight like a bastard. many guys would’ve tapped in Rd 1, and it didn’t seem to faze him. if he gets with agood camp and make a concetrated effort to improve his game, i think he’ll have acontniued future in the uFC.

-Larson looked terrible. i don’t recall ever seeing him looking so tentative and ineffective. i guess at least it didn’t go another round, since he would’ve lost anyway wtih 2 penalty pts.

-i thought Grove vs. Rosholt was gonna be a boring, 3 rd decision, and both guys went after it. Grove looked good with those transitions

-i like Davis, and i like Saunders. Saunders is just too tall, too aggressive and a helluva lot younger. Davis still has a few fights in him, but needs to stop taking so much punishment, and settle in to his career as gatekeeper.

45

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Tito had his day and it was glorious, but the day is past.

well said.[/quote]

HAAAAAHAAAHA! tito had his day as what? as a watered down gayweather of mma? god tito is/was/forever will be a second/third rate fighter.

46

[quote]Deorum wrote:
cycobushmaster wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Tito had his day and it was glorious, but the day is past.

well said.

HAAAAAHAAAHA! tito had his day as what? as a watered down gayweather of mma? god tito is/was/forever will be a second/third rate fighter.
[/quote]

except he’ll always be in the record books as the longest running LHW champ (to date).

good argument.

47

LOL is this a fucking joke? you obviously didnt understand his parallel to gayweather so let me enlighten you. tito has but ONCE beat a good fighter who wasnt washed up and that was wanderli silva. after that his he defended his title against yuki kondo the only other arguably talented win of his career. from there he spent the rest of his days ducking randy couture and chuck liddel. then when dana told him he could no longer be a fucking paper champ he faught a talented fighter in randy and literally got SPANKED. now without the title he was FORCED to fight another ACTUAL fighter (in chuck liddel) to regain credibility and once again he got fucking spanked. tito’s entire career was built on an early win over silva and a fucking payperview money cespool with ken shamrock. he never was a good fighter.

… really though, if you think being a ufc champion equates to being a talented fighter i really shouldnt have even wasted my time on this argument because your a horribly uneducated mma fan.

edit: really my first clue should have been you even fathoming defending tito fucking ortiz as a good fighter.

48

[quote]Deorum wrote:
LOL is this a fucking joke? you obviously didnt understand his parallel to gayweather so let me enlighten you. tito has but ONCE beat a good fighter who wasnt washed up and that was wanderli silva. after that his he defended his title against yuki kondo the only other arguably talented win of his career. from there he spent the rest of his days ducking randy couture and chuck liddel. then when dana told him he could no longer be a fucking paper champ he faught a talented fighter in randy and literally got SPANKED. now without the title he was FORCED to fight another ACTUAL fighter (in chuck liddel) to regain credibility and once again he got fucking spanked. tito’s entire career was built on an early win over silva and a fucking payperview money cespool with ken shamrock. he never was a good fighter.

… really though, if you think being a ufc champion equates to being a talented fighter i really shouldnt have even wasted my time on this argument because your a horribly uneducated mma fan.

edit: really my first clue should have been you even fathoming defending tito fucking ortiz as a good fighter.[/quote]

Your (you’re, btw) right, I’m wrong, go somewhere else.

49

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:

I could have seen giving the first two rounds to Tito honestly. But I think you’re right, Forrest stole the fight (or maybe more appropriately Tito gave it away) in that last round. The judge who scored it 30-27 for Griffin was smokin something though.

How did Tito win two rounds, or that matter even the one round? Griffin nullified Tito’s game on the ground, and won convincingly on the feet, which was very impressive. Griffin really only took a couple of nasty elbows (on the ground) and as you know he cuts easy anyway. The most impressive part of the fight was when Griffin actually reversed Tito on the ground and began a ground and pound attack of his own.

I could see all three rounds going to Griffin. How did one judge actually have Tito winning the fight? No really, it makes me think that this judge is either stupid, doesn’t know the game, or was bought and paid for.

Tito lost that fight with no question, none at all. For him to say that he was robbed just speaks to his immaturity, which has always been a hallmark of his.

“I’d like to see you guys fight with a cracked skull and a ruptured C6 vertabra”.

Um, shut up Tito.

But, the over all UFC judging is very questionable as of late.

Yeah, I agree that he didn’t win the fight. I can honestly see possibly giving him round 1 as it was a pretty even round. But, I’d say he definitely won the second round.

You think Tito won the second round? The round where he kicked Tito’s mouth piece out of his mouth? The round where he reversed Tito on the ground and began feeding Tito his elbow, that round? How’d he do it? Also, whenever they were on their feet Griffin got the best of him. I just watched the fight again and if someone wanted to say that Tito won the first round, well okay, but I gave it to Griffin. But, no way did Tito win the second or third round. The fight got progressively worse for Tito as the minutes ticked away. He just didn’t have the tools to deal with a more well rounded fighter like Griffin. Anyway Sento watch round two again if nothing else. Seeing it again I bet you’ll come to the same conclusion that I did.
[/quote]

Guess I’ll have to watch the round again.

I’m not arguing that Forrest was getting the better of Tito on the feet in that round, but Tito did get several takedowns and had some decent ground and pound once he got there (at least on the second one).

If you look around, you’ll see that several other sources also scored that round to Tito.

Yeah no doubt. But I also think that he thought he had won the first two rounds and was just playing defensive, thinking that he would win the decision. That’s basically what he did in the first fight if you remember.

Yeah I was pretty disappointed in his striking as well. For having supposedly trained with Roach coming into this fight, it wasn’t very apparent in the striking that he showcased.

I also agree that he won’t be holding any more belts in his career.

50

[quote]Deorum wrote:
LOL is this a fucking joke? you obviously didnt understand his parallel to gayweather so let me enlighten you. tito has but ONCE beat a good fighter who wasnt washed up and that was wanderli silva. after that his he defended his title against yuki kondo the only other arguably talented win of his career. from there he spent the rest of his days ducking randy couture and chuck liddel. then when dana told him he could no longer be a fucking paper champ he faught a talented fighter in randy and literally got SPANKED. now without the title he was FORCED to fight another ACTUAL fighter (in chuck liddel) to regain credibility and once again he got fucking spanked. tito’s entire career was built on an early win over silva and a fucking payperview money cespool with ken shamrock. he never was a good fighter.
[/quote]

What about his win over Vitor? Are you saying that Belfort isn’t a legitimate fighter? He just knocked out Matt Lindland and Rich Franklin in a combined time of 3:39 and is next in line for a shot at Anderson Silva for the MW belt. Wouldn’t you say that makes him a legitimate fighter?

Now, granted that those were at MW and not LHW, but I think Ortiz still deserves credit for beating Belfort.

51

yea i did forget that fight. belfort is pretty legitimate. add that to his other one or two other good wins and its still not much of a career. it CERTAINLY does not change the fact that tito is a pretty insignificant fighter and whats more a bitch. at least gayweather is a talented bitch, ortiz is a mediocre bitch.

edit: also its no secret vitor wasnt naturally a heavy or light heavy weight. his move was inevitable really.

52

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

Yeah I was pretty disappointed in his striking as well. For having supposedly trained with Roach coming into this fight, it wasn’t very apparent in the striking that he showcased.

[/quote]

Tito trained with Roach for this fight? Man, he sure didn’t look like a Roach product. Maybe Freddie spent all his time training Pacquiao and not enough time for Tito.

Speaking of Belfort, is it just me, or does Baroni’s back look just like Vitor’s back from when Vitor was first in the UFC? Big thick traps, lats, and shoulders.

And Sento, been meaning to ask you: who is that in your profile pic?

53

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
Speaking of Belfort, is it just me, or does Baroni’s back look just like Vitor’s back from when Vitor was first in the UFC? Big thick traps, lats, and shoulders.
[/quote]

both were at one time very interested in body building. baroni even did some shows as i recall.

54

[quote]Deorum wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
Speaking of Belfort, is it just me, or does Baroni’s back look just like Vitor’s back from when Vitor was first in the UFC? Big thick traps, lats, and shoulders.

both were at one time very interested in body building. baroni even did some shows as i recall. [/quote]

Now that you mention this, it makes sense. I was telling a friend of mine “Baroni should be a bodybuilder after his fighting days are done.”

55

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:

Yeah I was pretty disappointed in his striking as well. For having supposedly trained with Roach coming into this fight, it wasn’t very apparent in the striking that he showcased.

Tito trained with Roach for this fight? Man, he sure didn’t look like a Roach product. Maybe Freddie spent all his time training Pacquiao and not enough time for Tito.

Speaking of Belfort, is it just me, or does Baroni’s back look just like Vitor’s back from when Vitor was first in the UFC? Big thick traps, lats, and shoulders.

And Sento, been meaning to ask you: who is that in your profile pic?[/quote]

Yeah, Tito’s got a bunch of vids up on youtube documenting him going and training at Roach’s gym. Not sure whether or not Roach actually specifically trained him/game-planned for this fight though. He certainly wasn’t in Tito’s corner come fight time. Still, even if that wasn’t the case, you’d think that his striking would have improved more working with Roach and his staff, not to mention mostly likely having some damn good sparring partners available to him.

The pic is of Rory Leidelmeyer.

56

Roach is with Amir Kahn right now and the video I saw Roach was working mits with Tito. But it’s not like Tito is going to pick up boxing in a handful of months, as far as I know his surgery was somewhat recent I think he was still recovering over the summer and started training in the fall.

57

[quote]Deorum wrote:
yea i did forget that fight. belfort is pretty legitimate. add that to his other one or two other good wins and its still not much of a career. it CERTAINLY does not change the fact that tito is a pretty insignificant fighter and whats more a bitch. at least gayweather is a talented bitch, ortiz is a mediocre bitch.

edit: also its no secret vitor wasnt naturally a heavy or light heavy weight. his move was inevitable really.[/quote]

you know, i hate when people do this. and by this, i mean go look at fightfinder and then disregard teh context in which those fights were conducted. tito took it to the lion’s den when they were viewed in teh same manner that jackson’s camp is today. he beat vladimir matyushenko when he was on the rise, he beat evan tanner when he was on a run. in that day and in those times tito ruled the ufc. without him keeping the organization afloat, we might not have the ufc today - the ppvs that tito headlined were pretty much the only ones drawing anybody in those days.

you can call him insignificant all you want, and in the long run his career may best be remembered as mediocre, but dont try to diminish his career by degrading the fighters he faced, they were all fighting and keeping teh sport alive when they weren’t making shit doing it. today we have athletes, then we had fighters.

ps- vitor was NOT an undersized light heavyweight when he fought there. he seemed to have access to better vitamins back then

58

[quote]slimjim wrote:
Deorum wrote:
yea i did forget that fight. belfort is pretty legitimate. add that to his other one or two other good wins and its still not much of a career. it CERTAINLY does not change the fact that tito is a pretty insignificant fighter and whats more a bitch. at least gayweather is a talented bitch, ortiz is a mediocre bitch.

edit: also its no secret vitor wasnt naturally a heavy or light heavy weight. his move was inevitable really.

you know, i hate when people do this. and by this, i mean go look at fightfinder and then disregard teh context in which those fights were conducted. tito took it to the lion’s den when they were viewed in teh same manner that jackson’s camp is today. he beat vladimir matyushenko when he was on the rise, he beat evan tanner when he was on a run. in that day and in those times tito ruled the ufc. without him keeping the organization afloat, we might not have the ufc today - the ppvs that tito headlined were pretty much the only ones drawing anybody in those days. you can call him insignificant all you want, and in the long run his career may best be remembered as mediocre, but dont try to diminish his career by degrading the fighters he faced, they were all fighting and keeping teh sport alive when they weren’t making shit doing it. today we have athletes, then we had fighters.

ps- vitor was NOT an undersized light heavyweight when he fought there. he seemed to have access to better vitamins back then[/quote]

fight finder? get the fuck outta here. i was watching the first ufc’s as a kid with my dad when the sport was just being pushed out of the gracie’s womb. what you just did is called projection.

as far as making a good fighter, i dont give bias based on what the fighter has meant for the sport. ken shamrock was in the delivery room giving birth to the fucking sport but i wouldn’t call him a good fighter.

and your point on vitor was the exact fucking same point i made. he was not a NATURAL lhw.

just to get this straight though, are you saying tito was at ONE POINT a RELEVANT fighter or are actually trying to say tito fucking ortiz is a GOOD fighter?

59

what is it with college freshman, unfettered internet access, and nothing but time on their hands? go get laid kid, 275 posts in a month is the sign of a problem

60

[quote]Deorum wrote:
i was watching the first ufc’s as a kid with my dad when the sport was just being pushed out of the gracie’s womb.
[/quote]

Dude…YOU were fresh out of the womb during the time period slimjim is referencing in regards to Tito.

Only a high school age kid(i.e.,you) would claim Tito’s early success was ONLY built on a win over Wanderlei. You skipped right over slmjim’s reference to the Lion’s Den fighters that were consider the top of the UFC BEFORE Tito even fought Wanderlei. AND Tito had a pretty good run BEFORE he fought Couture and Liddell. Remember,he lost the belt to Couture AFTER defending his belt SIX times successfully. Not bad for a “paper champ.”

Saying that Tito is irrelevant NOW or maybe wasn’t a dominant fighter can be argued. BUT saying Tito was NEVER a good fighter is fucking absurd…makes you look very stupid. As does attempting to parallel Mayweather’s career into some childish and meaningless point about Tito’s career.