UFC 103 - Franklin vs. Belfort

Training
41

[quote]dhickey wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

You are out of your mind if you think CroCop gave it his all and just can’t compete with the current crop of fighters.

Can you read?

I know he didn’t put his all in those punches 'cause he never fully extended. Not once. He pulled every punch he threw.

How about his kicks? Even if he was out there at sparing speed, he is still not a punching bag. You act like he was standing out there not knowing he was in a fight.

His size and skillset at his peak would not only be competitive, it would be at or near the top at HW.

Doubt it. Not top 5 at least.

This has nothing to do with the comp getting better. Dos Santos hasn’t really beaten anybody aside from Werdum [who should be at 205]

What the fuck. Was Werdum not a tough fight for someone with 8 total fights and 1 in the UFC? Did Werdum not beat Gonzaga, Alex, and Overeem?

and now a disinterested CroCop, who threw maybe 8 half punches and still busted his face and wobbled him.

How many fighters at that stage (9 fights, 2 in the UFC)in their career would have faired better against Cro Cop?

You are seriously discrediting CroCop with what you’re saying, and it sounds like you either don’t know what you’re talking about or have only been watching MMA for the last 2-3 years.
We’ve been through this before several times. I’ve seen more MMA that you have. I have most of the non-busido PRIDE events on DVD and have seen them more than once.
[/quote]

Ok, how many kicks did he throw? 4? 5? None of those had their usual snap either. If you really think an in his prime CroCop wouldn’t house most if not all of these other cats you’re a fucking moron. That’s why I said “aside from Werdum”. That suggests that I do in fact think he’s a formidable opponent.

I don’t give a fuck that “I have seen more MMA that you have” [it’s than btw], you clearly have no idea what you’re watching and don’t know your elbow from your asshole about the sport or the fighters in it. Dos Santos is an exciting young fighter, but he hasn’t actually knocked anyone out[ in the UFC]. He’s got a few ref stoppages. CroCop coma’d people left and right. Pull your head outta your ass and face reality man.

42

I thought it was pretty interesting how “out of shape” Belfort was. This is relatively speaking to his former shape when he was huge and shredded. Was this a shift in training focus or a change in his “supps?”

43

Belfort does crossfit now.

44

“Supps”, of course)

[quote]maglite wrote:
I thought it was pretty interesting how “out of shape” Belfort was. This is relatively speaking to his former shape when he was huge and shredded. Was this a shift in training focus or a change in his “supps?” [/quote]

45

[quote]drewh wrote:
http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2009/09/21/mirko-cro-cop-filipovic-i-dont-feel-the-hunger-anymore-i-want-a-normal-life/

Yeah you’re dumb if you think he came out with the same intensity he used to. Watch a thing called PRIDE it’s good shit, Wikipedia does not tell the whole story nor does Sherdog.[/quote]

Oh, they quote Jutarnji :slight_smile:

I brought you the news sooner!

46

[quote]dhickey wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
matko5 wrote:
BIGBOSSTRON wrote:
matko5 wrote:
There is some rumor Cro Cop is retiring, he had an interview with a croatian newspaper.

I think that would be for the best.

He said in the interview that all he thought about when entering the cage was fishing. He says that is his sign to retire.

Well it was pretty obvious he wasn’t thinking about fighting. It sucks 'cause all of the fans who never saw him fight in PRIDE don’t understand that how amazing a fighter he was. Dos Santos would get murdered by that CroCop.

CroCop has always been an on and off fighter, and I think Dos Santos is a lot better than some guys who’ve actually beaten/KO’ed Cro Cop in kickboxing and in MMA. (Randleman? Michael Mcdonald?)

Agreed, but he’s been way more off than on. Gonna disagree there. I like Dos Santos, but aside from Werdum [and a lazy disinterested CroCop] who’s he beaten? I don’t think I need to name CroCop’s hit list. CroCop buckled his knees and fucked up his eyes with a pulled straight left two seperate times. If he’d have put anything into those it’ve been lights out. Instead, he worked on his backwards man act and then quit. Really disappointing.

Unless you think Cro Cop is a complete puching bag and didn’t fight at all, it’s a solid win for a young up and comer. Dos Santos looked good and Cro Cop is still a dangerous striker at 75%. I doubt many could fight him and not take any damage at all. Do you really think anyone could have avoided taking any shots from a guy like Cro Cop?

How do you know Cro Cop wasn’t putting anything on his punches? His straight left looked just as good as it always has to me. He had a couple decent kicks to the body as well. What I saw was a Cro Cop that showed spurts of aggressiveness instead of constistantly pushing forward or putting together combinations. Pretty similar to his fight with Fedor. Does anyone want to discount that win?

While his skills may have diminished some since his hayday, I think most of what we are seeing is his size and skill set not being competitve in the HW div any longer. Like many, he just hasn’t evolved as the competition has gotten better.

He walks around at 226 and is really just a power striker. He would have trouble with the top LHW guys with his current skill set. I just don’t see him being competitive in the HW div, even at the top of his game. He is still dangerous and not to be taken lightly, but so are all the current crop of fighters. [/quote]

I think Crocop’s speed and athleticism have diminished significantly. Crocop needs space to operate and he just can’t create space for himself anymore. Crocop has great striking skills but the way he fought relied on his foot-speed and athleticism. He reminds me of Roy Jones in that sense. Watching Crocop now is like watching him in slow motion. He is slower than when he was in Pride and he is glacial compared to when he fought in K-1(watch his fight with Mike Bernardo) So I disagree with on the reasons why Crocop is no longer competitive.

I do think if he changed his game to compensate for his diminished physical tools he could be competitive again. Randy is slow, Nog is slow, Mir is slower than prime Mirko. So it is possible but I do not see that happening since it seems he is leaning toward retirement.

What made Crocop special is that he could dominate in mma with his strategy of left straights and left high kicks and choose to keep it standing. I do not see many guys being able to pull that off in mma. Then or now or ever.

47

[quote]Steve-O-68 wrote:
m1sf1t wrote:
Steve-O-68 wrote:
I did enjoy seeing that guy dislocate his own shoulder. It looked painful, but he was like ‘Meh’.

See, this is what I mean about shit “fans” that only go see a “carcrash”- so you didn’t “enjoy” the fights, the striking, grappling, technique or anything else but one dude dislocating his own arm??

…Piece of shit people I swear!

Calm down chief. I enjoy the fights, striking, grappling and all that. Just out of the entire show, the dislocation was the most memorable part for me. And not so much that the dude was seriously injured, but how non-chalantly he handled it. I bet that’s happened to him on more than one occasion.

[/quote]

Ok, I get it now, my apologies. I’m calm now…

48

[quote]maglite wrote:
I thought it was pretty interesting how “out of shape” Belfort was. This is relatively speaking to his former shape when he was huge and shredded. Was this a shift in training focus or a change in his “supps?” [/quote]

You do know he used to fight at heavyweight and is now a middleweight, right?

49

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Dos Santos hasn’t really beaten anybody aside from Werdum [who should be at 205].[/quote]

Oh wow, no way man. He weighed in at a lean-ish 240 for his last fight in Strikeforce. He’s 6’4 and a big man, he’d need to lose a limb to fight 205.

50

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

Dos Santos hasn’t really beaten anybody aside from Werdum [who should be at 205].

Oh wow, no way man. He weighed in at a lean-ish 240 for his last fight in Strikeforce. He’s 6’4 and a big man, he’d need to lose a limb to fight 205.[/quote]

Then he put on about 15lbs, 'cause if I’m not mistaken he usually came in around 225-228 and he just seemed like a better fit at 205 to me. I could be wrong.

51

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
maglite wrote:
I thought it was pretty interesting how “out of shape” Belfort was. This is relatively speaking to his former shape when he was huge and shredded. Was this a shift in training focus or a change in his “supps?”

You do know he used to fight at heavyweight and is now a middleweight, right?[/quote]

That and this fight was at 195 so he didn’t cut like he has been to be at 185.

52

:))))))))))))))))))))))))

53

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

Dos Santos hasn’t really beaten anybody aside from Werdum [who should be at 205].

Oh wow, no way man. He weighed in at a lean-ish 240 for his last fight in Strikeforce. He’s 6’4 and a big man, he’d need to lose a limb to fight 205.

Then he put on about 15lbs, 'cause if I’m not mistaken he usually came in around 225-228 and he just seemed like a better fit at 205 to me. I could be wrong.[/quote]

When he fought Dos Santos, he was something like 250 but close to 20% body fat, no lie, check it out. He has filed out semi succesfully, and although he doesn’t seem like he lifts weights that much, he’s bigger than Nog and other HW BJJ guys.

54

[quote]maglite wrote:
I thought it was pretty interesting how “out of shape” Belfort was. This is relatively speaking to his former shape when he was huge and shredded. Was this a shift in training focus or a change in his “supps?” [/quote]

How exactly was he out of shape? And what does his physical appearance have to do with how he fought? Seemed to me he did quite well for himself, and I’m sure Franklin would concur.

55

CroCop say’s he is finally retiring:

56

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

Dos Santos hasn’t really beaten anybody aside from Werdum [who should be at 205].

Oh wow, no way man. He weighed in at a lean-ish 240 for his last fight in Strikeforce. He’s 6’4 and a big man, he’d need to lose a limb to fight 205.

Then he put on about 15lbs, 'cause if I’m not mistaken he usually came in around 225-228 and he just seemed like a better fit at 205 to me. I could be wrong.

When he fought Dos Santos, he was something like 250 but close to 20% body fat, no lie, check it out. He has filed out semi succesfully, and although he doesn’t seem like he lifts weights that much, he’s bigger than Nog and other HW BJJ guys.[/quote]

You sure? I’ve never seen him more than 228.

EDIT: Not trying to hijack, I’m legitimately curious.

57

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Fabricio_Werdum_vs_Junior_Dos_Santos_UFC_90?vid=10001996

256 vs Dos Santos, although you can see what a big speed advantage Junior has. Anyway I quite like Werdum… he gave Arlovski, Nog and Kharitonov very close fights, beat Aleks, KO’ed Gonzaga (twice), beat the pre-roid Overeem, and has generally been fighting tough, tough guys. If he keeps improving his stand up, he could be the one to give Fedor some trouble in Strikeforce, although if not it’d probably end exactly like the Dos Santos fight.

58

Adios Crocop, you were one of the best.

Dos Santos was anything but spectacular. A prime Mirko would have undeniably murdered him.

Did anyone notive Belfort beginning the fight practically in Karate stance?

59

He trains karate with the Machidas.

60

http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Mirko-Filipovic-not-retiring-just-yet-may-finish-out-UFC-contract.html

Really confusing. Is he really not into it and just staying in for the $ or becuase he can’t say no to the UFC. Or was he never really going to retire and all the talk about being distracted just and excuse for losing?

Either way, there are still some matches I wouldn’t mind seeing. Pat Barry would be an interesting match-up. Couture, Coleman, or Lidell would be cool just for nostalgia sake.