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What do you think about training shoulders the day after chest and arms?
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I noticed when looking at all the old time physiques they had tremendous lat spreads. Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, all the way up to Sergio Olivas time. Not talking about todays BBers. How did they achieve that? I know the BBers of the 40’s and 50s did full body, maybe that had something to do with it? Or did they just prioritize for back/lats???
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Could work depending on how the rest of your split os set up. I wouldn’t do it though.
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Lats weren’t bigger, their waists were smaller and so was the rest of them because they stayed at lower body weights in general.
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
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Could work depending on how the rest of your split os set up. I wouldn’t do it though.
-
Lats weren’t bigger, their waists were smaller and so was the rest of them because they stayed at lower body weights in general.[/quote]
The split is:
Sunday - Upper Power
Monday - Lower Power
Wed - Hypertophy Chest/Arms
Thursday - Hypertrophy Shoulders and back
Friday - Hypertrophy Legs/Calves
Im trying to think of a way to switch this around so it wont overlap
- That makes sense
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
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Could work depending on how the rest of your split os set up. I wouldn’t do it though.
-
Lats weren’t bigger, their waists were smaller and so was the rest of them because they stayed at lower body weights in general.[/quote]
The split is:
Sunday - Upper Power
Monday - Lower Power
Wed - Hypertophy Chest/Arms
Thursday - Hypertrophy Shoulders and back
Friday - Hypertrophy Legs/Calves
Im trying to think of a way to switch this around so it wont overlap
- That makes sense[/quote]
You could put your whole upper hyper into one day instead of splitting into chest/arms and back/shoulders, that would give you one more recovery day to eat and rest. Just make sure if you do that to give yourself enough time between bodyparts so that the fatigue doesen’t mess with getting up max poundages.
Probably keep to one exercise per bodypart per session if you do that.
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
-
Could work depending on how the rest of your split os set up. I wouldn’t do it though.
-
Lats weren’t bigger, their waists were smaller and so was the rest of them because they stayed at lower body weights in general.[/quote]
The split is:
Sunday - Upper Power
Monday - Lower Power
Wed - Hypertophy Chest/Arms
Thursday - Hypertrophy Shoulders and back
Friday - Hypertrophy Legs/Calves
Im trying to think of a way to switch this around so it wont overlap
- That makes sense[/quote]
You could put your whole upper hyper into one day instead of splitting into chest/arms and back/shoulders, that would give you one more recovery day to eat and rest. Just make sure if you do that to give yourself enough time between bodyparts so that the fatigue doesen’t mess with getting up max poundages.
Probably keep to one exercise per bodypart per session if you do that.[/quote]
The only problem would be not hitting each bodypart with full intensity.
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
-
Could work depending on how the rest of your split os set up. I wouldn’t do it though.
-
Lats weren’t bigger, their waists were smaller and so was the rest of them because they stayed at lower body weights in general.[/quote]
The split is:
Sunday - Upper Power
Monday - Lower Power
Wed - Hypertophy Chest/Arms
Thursday - Hypertrophy Shoulders and back
Friday - Hypertrophy Legs/Calves
Im trying to think of a way to switch this around so it wont overlap
- That makes sense[/quote]
You could put your whole upper hyper into one day instead of splitting into chest/arms and back/shoulders, that would give you one more recovery day to eat and rest. Just make sure if you do that to give yourself enough time between bodyparts so that the fatigue doesen’t mess with getting up max poundages.
Probably keep to one exercise per bodypart per session if you do that.[/quote]
The only problem would be not hitting each bodypart with full intensity.
[/quote]
That’s actually the way I train right now and I have no problem hitting max poundages each session. There’s also the push/pull/legs option for your hyp days. What rep ranges and volume are you going to use for each days? Your terminology reminds me of something Layne Norton would prescribe.
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
-
What do you think about training shoulders the day after chest and arms?
-
I noticed when looking at all the old time physiques they had tremendous lat spreads. Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, all the way up to Sergio Olivas time. Not talking about todays BBers. How did they achieve that? I know the BBers of the 40’s and 50s did full body, maybe that had something to do with it? Or did they just prioritize for back/lats?[/quote]
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Rotate which one gets hit heavy, and which one gets hit light each week, or prioritize the weaker area.
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‘Breathing’ Pullovers? Great mind-muscle connection? Genetics? Could just be statistical too, ie those guys(Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross…) simply had the right stuff.
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
-
Could work depending on how the rest of your split os set up. I wouldn’t do it though.
-
Lats weren’t bigger, their waists were smaller and so was the rest of them because they stayed at lower body weights in general.[/quote]
The split is:
Sunday - Upper Power
Monday - Lower Power
Wed - Hypertophy Chest/Arms
Thursday - Hypertrophy Shoulders and back
Friday - Hypertrophy Legs/Calves
Im trying to think of a way to switch this around so it wont overlap
- That makes sense[/quote]
You could put your whole upper hyper into one day instead of splitting into chest/arms and back/shoulders, that would give you one more recovery day to eat and rest. Just make sure if you do that to give yourself enough time between bodyparts so that the fatigue doesen’t mess with getting up max poundages.
Probably keep to one exercise per bodypart per session if you do that.[/quote]
The only problem would be not hitting each bodypart with full intensity.
[/quote]
That’s actually the way I train right now and I have no problem hitting max poundages each session. There’s also the push/pull/legs option for your hyp days. What rep ranges and volume are you going to use for each days? Your terminology reminds me of something Layne Norton would prescribe.[/quote]
Exactly where I got this routine from, haha
I like that idea of push pull legs for hyper never though of that, def going to think that over.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
-
What do you think about training shoulders the day after chest and arms?
-
I noticed when looking at all the old time physiques they had tremendous lat spreads. Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, all the way up to Sergio Olivas time. Not talking about todays BBers. How did they achieve that? I know the BBers of the 40’s and 50s did full body, maybe that had something to do with it? Or did they just prioritize for back/lats?[/quote]
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Rotate which one gets hit heavy, and which one gets hit light each week, or prioritize the weaker area.
-
‘Breathing’ Pullovers? Great mind-muscle connection? Genetics? Could just be statistical too, ie those guys(Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross…) simply had the right stuff.[/quote]
Hell Yea man, I love pullovers, I do them almost every week
Check this outt
I was also looking into Bill Kamaiers routine. Looks pretty cool
Monday
Bench (heavy) warm up, then 4 sets x 10 reps
Wide Grip Bench 3 sets x 10 reps
Narrow Grip Bench 3 sets x 10 reps
Front Delt Raise 4 sets x 8 reps
Dumbell Seated Press 4 sets x 10 reps
Side Delt Raise 4 sets x 10 reps
Lying Tricep Push (after 2 warm up sets) 6 sets x 10 reps
Tricep Push Down 4 sets x 10 reps
Tuesday
Squat (heavy) warm up, then 4 sets x 10 reps
Deadlift (light) warm up, then 3 sets x 10 reps
Shrugs 2 sets x 15-40 reps, 1 set x 10-20 reps
Seated Hammer Curls 4 sets x 12 reps
Standing Curl 4 sets x 10 reps
Close Grip Chin Ups 3 sets x max on each set
Seated Row 4 sets x 10 reps
Leg Extensions 3 sets x 10 reps
Leg Curl 3 sets x 10 reps
Calf Raise 3 sets x 15-25 reps
Thursday
Bench (light) warm up, then 3 sets x 10 reps
Wide Grip Bench 3 sets x 10 reps
Narrow Grip Bench 3 sets x 10 reps
Dumbell Seated Press (heavy) warm up, then 4 sets x 8 reps
Front Delt Raise 4 sets x 10 reps
Tennis Backhand Cable Extensions 4 sets x 10 reps
Prone Tricep Extension 4 sets x 10 reps
Saturday
Deadlift (heavy) warm up, then 4 sets x 8 reps
Squat (light) warm up, then 4 sets x10 reps
Shrugs (heavy) 4 sets x 10-15 reps
Seated Hammer Curl 4 sets x 8 reps
Concentration Curl 4 sets x 12 reps
One Arm Row - 3 positions 3 sets x 10 reps
Wide Grip Pull (down to chest) 4 sets x 10 reps
Leg Extensions 3 sets x 10 reps
Leg Curl 3 sets x 10 reps
Calf Raise 3 sets x 15-25 reps
Alright here ya guys go, full updated routine.
Sunday: Upper Power
5x5 or 3x5 for all lifts(5x5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3x5 on cut)
Barbell Bench Press
Barbell Rows
Military Press
Power Cleans
Monday: Lower Power/Abs
5x5 or 3x5 for all lifts(5x5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3x5 on cut)
Back Squat
Stiff Leg Deadlift, Or Romanian DL
Deadlift 4x3
6-8 sets of Standing Calf, little higher reps, i like to do 6-8 on heavy days
Weighted Crunches 4x max
Cable Crunch 3x max (Put rope behind head and keep elbows tucked in)
Tues: Off
Wednesday: Hypertrophy Chest/Shoulders/Triâ??s
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Incline Barbell Presses 4x8 (First two sets do to kneck)
Dumbbell Bench Presses 3x8-12
Flyes 2x-12
Barbell Overheard Press 4x6-8
One armed Lateral Raises 3x6-8
Lying Dumbell 90 degree external rotation 2x 10
Lying EZ Bar French Presses 2x5
Weighted Dips 4x 6-8
Rope Tricep Pushdowns 3x 12-15
Thursday: Hypertrophy Back/Biâ??s/Calves
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Bent Over Barbell Rows 4x6-8
Straight Arm Pulldowns 2x 8
Close Grips Pull Ups 3x10 (with V-bar)
Rope Cable Serratus Pulldowns 3x12
Bent over Rear delt raise 3x10-15 (variations on each set)
Alternate Dumbbell Curls 3x15
Incline Dumbbell Curls 3x6-8
Preacher Curls 3x 6-8
Donkey Calf Raises 6x25
Friday: Hypertrophy Legs/Calves
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Squat 5x8-12 super setted with
Standing Calf 5x10-15
Leg Extensions 5x10-15 super setted with
Sitting Leg Curls 5x10-15 super setted with
Donkey Calf Rasies 4x8-12
lol @ Layne’s stuff, too much volume for me and probably anyone else on most boards.
Make sure you’re eating enough with that kind of volume or else you’ll crash hard. Layne has all of his guys on very high carb diets, keep that in mind especially on those marathon hyp days.
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
lol @ Layne’s stuff, too much volume for me and probably anyone else on most boards.
Make sure you’re eating enough with that kind of volume or else you’ll crash hard. Layne has all of his guys on very high carb diets, keep that in mind especially on those marathon hyp days.[/quote]
I used to think the same thing until I tried it. I got used to it and I was able to tolerate it. He even has a few girls on it if I recall.
The version I have has you using periodization for the heavy days.
I only use it for bulking though and yeah, I do run a very high carb diet.
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
Alright here ya guys go, full updated routine.
Sunday: Upper Power
5x5 or 3x5 for all lifts(5x5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3x5 on cut)
Barbell Bench Press
Barbell Rows
Military Press
Power Cleans
Monday: Lower Power/Abs
5x5 or 3x5 for all lifts(5x5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3x5 on cut)
Back Squat
Stiff Leg Deadlift, Or Romanian DL
Deadlift 4x3
6-8 sets of Standing Calf, little higher reps, i like to do 6-8 on heavy days
Weighted Crunches 4x max
Cable Crunch 3x max (Put rope behind head and keep elbows tucked in)
Tues: Off
Wednesday: Hypertrophy Chest/Shoulders/Triâ??s
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Incline Barbell Presses 4x8 (First two sets do to kneck)
Dumbbell Bench Presses 3x8-12
Flyes 2x-12
Barbell Overheard Press 4x6-8
One armed Lateral Raises 3x6-8
Lying Dumbell 90 degree external rotation 2x 10
Lying EZ Bar French Presses 2x5
Weighted Dips 4x 6-8
Rope Tricep Pushdowns 3x 12-15
Thursday: Hypertrophy Back/Biâ??s/Calves
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Bent Over Barbell Rows 4x6-8
Straight Arm Pulldowns 2x 8
Close Grips Pull Ups 3x10 (with V-bar)
Rope Cable Serratus Pulldowns 3x12
Bent over Rear delt raise 3x10-15 (variations on each set)
Alternate Dumbbell Curls 3x15
Incline Dumbbell Curls 3x6-8
Preacher Curls 3x 6-8
Donkey Calf Raises 6x25
Friday: Hypertrophy Legs/Calves
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Squat 5x8-12 super setted with
Standing Calf 5x10-15
Leg Extensions 5x10-15 super setted with
Sitting Leg Curls 5x10-15 super setted with
Donkey Calf Rasies 4x8-12
[/quote]
You need some more volume in there if you want to grow.
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
-
What do you think about training shoulders the day after chest and arms?
-
I noticed when looking at all the old time physiques they had tremendous lat spreads. Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, all the way up to Sergio Olivas time. Not talking about todays BBers. How did they achieve that? I know the BBers of the 40’s and 50s did full body, maybe that had something to do with it? Or did they just prioritize for back/lats???[/quote]
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good thing you asked cuz thats a recipe for shoulder pain. dont do it. I would have, at the least, 2 days of rest between those two.
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BB’s in those days stepped on stage weighing no more than 230lbs. BB’s these days are regularly 265lbs +
All of that extra muscle has to go somewhere, and some of its going to the rectus and transverse abdominus. when your belly is bigger, your lats dont look bigger. On the other hand, if you have a tiny waste, the lats almost look like wings, ala arnie.
But still, to me the lat sizes aren’t that much different.
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
Alright here ya guys go, full updated routine.
Sunday: Upper Power
5x5 or 3x5 for all lifts(5x5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3x5 on cut)
Barbell Bench Press
Barbell Rows
Military Press
Power Cleans
Monday: Lower Power/Abs
5x5 or 3x5 for all lifts(5x5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3x5 on cut)
Back Squat
Stiff Leg Deadlift, Or Romanian DL
Deadlift 4x3
6-8 sets of Standing Calf, little higher reps, i like to do 6-8 on heavy days
Weighted Crunches 4x max
Cable Crunch 3x max (Put rope behind head and keep elbows tucked in)
Tues: Off
Wednesday: Hypertrophy Chest/Shoulders/Tri�¢??s
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Incline Barbell Presses 4x8 (First two sets do to kneck)
Dumbbell Bench Presses 3x8-12
Flyes 2x-12
Barbell Overheard Press 4x6-8
One armed Lateral Raises 3x6-8
Lying Dumbell 90 degree external rotation 2x 10
Lying EZ Bar French Presses 2x5
Weighted Dips 4x 6-8
Rope Tricep Pushdowns 3x 12-15
Thursday: Hypertrophy Back/Bi�¢??s/Calves
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Bent Over Barbell Rows 4x6-8
Straight Arm Pulldowns 2x 8
Close Grips Pull Ups 3x10 (with V-bar)
Rope Cable Serratus Pulldowns 3x12
Bent over Rear delt raise 3x10-15 (variations on each set)
Alternate Dumbbell Curls 3x15
Incline Dumbbell Curls 3x6-8
Preacher Curls 3x 6-8
Donkey Calf Raises 6x25
Friday: Hypertrophy Legs/Calves
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Squat 5x8-12 super setted with
Standing Calf 5x10-15
Leg Extensions 5x10-15 super setted with
Sitting Leg Curls 5x10-15 super setted with
Donkey Calf Rasies 4x8-12
[/quote]
You need some more volume in there if you want to grow.[/quote]
More volume?? You sure? What do you suggest then? Me adding in an extra set for some exercises?
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
[quote]knee-gro wrote:
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
Alright here ya guys go, full updated routine.
Sunday: Upper Power
5x5 or 3x5 for all lifts(5x5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3x5 on cut)
Barbell Bench Press
Barbell Rows
Military Press
Power Cleans
Monday: Lower Power/Abs
5x5 or 3x5 for all lifts(5x5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3x5 on cut)
Back Squat
Stiff Leg Deadlift, Or Romanian DL
Deadlift 4x3
6-8 sets of Standing Calf, little higher reps, i like to do 6-8 on heavy days
Weighted Crunches 4x max
Cable Crunch 3x max (Put rope behind head and keep elbows tucked in)
Tues: Off
Wednesday: Hypertrophy Chest/Shoulders/Tri�?�¢??s
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Incline Barbell Presses 4x8 (First two sets do to kneck)
Dumbbell Bench Presses 3x8-12
Flyes 2x-12
Barbell Overheard Press 4x6-8
One armed Lateral Raises 3x6-8
Lying Dumbell 90 degree external rotation 2x 10
Lying EZ Bar French Presses 2x5
Weighted Dips 4x 6-8
Rope Tricep Pushdowns 3x 12-15
Thursday: Hypertrophy Back/Bi�?�¢??s/Calves
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Bent Over Barbell Rows 4x6-8
Straight Arm Pulldowns 2x 8
Close Grips Pull Ups 3x10 (with V-bar)
Rope Cable Serratus Pulldowns 3x12
Bent over Rear delt raise 3x10-15 (variations on each set)
Alternate Dumbbell Curls 3x15
Incline Dumbbell Curls 3x6-8
Preacher Curls 3x 6-8
Donkey Calf Raises 6x25
Friday: Hypertrophy Legs/Calves
(For hypertrophy days i never go to failure, always stop about 2 reps before failure)
Squat 5x8-12 super setted with
Standing Calf 5x10-15
Leg Extensions 5x10-15 super setted with
Sitting Leg Curls 5x10-15 super setted with
Donkey Calf Rasies 4x8-12
[/quote]
You need some more volume in there if you want to grow.[/quote]
More volume?? You sure? What do you suggest then? Me adding in an extra set for some exercises?
[/quote]
sarcasm
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
sarcasm[/quote]
Thats what I thought at first, wasnt sure though haha
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
sarcasm[/quote]
Thats what I thought at first, wasnt sure though haha[/quote]
I think you should give up.
[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:
[quote]PowerliftingBBer wrote:
[quote]trav123456 wrote:
sarcasm[/quote]
Thats what I thought at first, wasnt sure though haha[/quote]
I think you should give up.[/quote]
No, I never give up.