No, I am totally happy for people to question atheism. I don’t believe in God because I have never seen any system or situation that can’t be modeled without the need of a God therefore I choose not to complicate the model with a God.
This is not proof that there is no supreme being, there may well be I cannot prove it one way or the other. If there is a supreme being though who was powerful enough to create the entire universe, I seriously doubt he would give the slightest fuck whether I believe in him or not. Were he to question me at the pearly gates about my lack of faith I would tell him that he should have provided more evidence.
If he has a problem with that, then he is not a God that I would want to be supporting anyway so I will take whatever vengeful punnishment I have coming. It’s not like I could do anything about it.
If it were the Christian God as described in the Bible that I found confronting me after my death I would have a shit load of questions for him and I would also be pretty damned angry at him for being such a hateful God.
That is pretty much the difference between an Atheist and a Believer, the Atheist is following a logical path and is prepared to admit they might be wrong, all it needs to change a scientific model is more evidence.
A religious faith however relies on you not questioning it, it even rewards you for not questioning it. Any evidence to the contrary will be explained away because the faith must be maintained at all costs.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
OK, question for you Mr happy fluffy loving Christian.
I do not believe in God. I try to live a good life, I try to treat others as I would like to be treated, I try to help out those less fortunate than me. But I do not accept the God into my heart, I do not believe in him and I resent Christianity for the blinkers it puts on the world and the retardation of scientific development in the world that it causes.
[/quote]
Has the West, for the past 600 years, been characterized by a ‘retarding of scientific development’? Almost all of the innovations of the past 500 years at least have been developed by Western men. When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners. Maybe you studied something different in school. Critical studies, perhaps.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
PR has made it abundantly clear that “official,” [/quote]
Ben-Laden has official documents proving he’s the representant of whatever deity he believes in.
Like the Pope, but without the whole sacrality bit.
Which explains the high conversion rates from other religions to Islam.
A 1.2 billion strong cabal.
Nevermind that they lie to each other millions of times more than they lie to non-Muslims.
“Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies.” Quran - 40:28
There is nothing of substance to support this in Islam’s Holy Book.
There are, however, nation-states that describe themselves as “Islamic”. In that context, it is more a form of treason. Traditionally, it has been used to silence dissent and stop critical thinking.
This aberration can only stop with secular states (Iraq, hint hint).
This is the age-old my religion is superior to yours argument.
You really think it’s settled already?
Cockney blue maybe making a “generic” point about “evils”. You and your more “particularly Christian” friends, are making “evil” points using the “generic” supremacist arguments that seem so en vogue lately.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
OK, question for you Mr happy fluffy loving Christian.
I do not believe in God. I try to live a good life, I try to treat others as I would like to be treated, I try to help out those less fortunate than me. But I do not accept the God into my heart, I do not believe in him and I resent Christianity for the blinkers it puts on the world and the retardation of scientific development in the world that it causes.
Has the West, for the past 600 years, been characterized by a ‘retarding of scientific development’? Almost all of the innovations of the past 500 years at least have been developed by Western men. When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners. Maybe you studied something different in school. Critical studies, perhaps.
[/quote]
You haven’t looked very far through a maths book if you think that most development in Maths has been from the West.
Also, the fact that there is not much scientific discovery going on in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan is not much of an argument in favour of Religion.
If you are impressed with the development that has happened in the world in spite of religion, just think how great it would be if people were not taught not to question certain articles of faith.
And are you seriously trying to say that there are no high profile members of the Christian church in the US preaching messages of hate?
I’m not particularly Christian, but I’m astounded that people like you can argue “all religions are equally guilty” in discussions such as this.
PR has made it abundantly clear that “official,” mainstream Islam SANCTIONS jihad for religious conversion, lying to non-Muslims and death to apostates. If that doesn’t make you have more doubts about “the religion of peace” than about other religions, what would?
I’m no fan of religion either, but this goes way beyond the generic “evils of religion” point you are attempting to make.[/quote]
Hey, I am not saying they are equal, the hate groups in certain religions are closer to the seats of power than they are in other religions. That doesn’t mean I am prepared to write off all Muslims.
I have many muslim friends and I see them recieving terrible treatment from the general public. Yes the route cause of this is the hate groups within Islam but the US reaction to these hate groups plays into the hands of the hate groups.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
OK, question for you Mr happy fluffy loving Christian.
I do not believe in God. I try to live a good life, I try to treat others as I would like to be treated, I try to help out those less fortunate than me. But I do not accept the God into my heart, I do not believe in him and I resent Christianity for the blinkers it puts on the world and the retardation of scientific development in the world that it causes.
Has the West, for the past 600 years, been characterized by a ‘retarding of scientific development’? Almost all of the innovations of the past 500 years at least have been developed by Western men. When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners. Maybe you studied something different in school. Critical studies, perhaps.
You haven’t looked very far through a maths book if you think that most development in Maths has been from the West.
[/quote]
LOL. Ok. You’re right, I haven’t looked very for through a Maths book. I don’t know very much about Maths.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
OK, question for you Mr happy fluffy loving Christian.
I do not believe in God. I try to live a good life, I try to treat others as I would like to be treated, I try to help out those less fortunate than me. But I do not accept the God into my heart, I do not believe in him and I resent Christianity for the blinkers it puts on the world and the retardation of scientific development in the world that it causes.
Has the West, for the past 600 years, been characterized by a ‘retarding of scientific development’? Almost all of the innovations of the past 500 years at least have been developed by Western men. When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners. Maybe you studied something different in school. Critical studies, perhaps.
You haven’t looked very far through a maths book if you think that most development in Maths has been from the West.
LOL. Ok. You’re right, I haven’t looked very for through a Maths book. I don’t know very much about Maths.
[/quote]
Well you were the one claiming that there has been no significant input into mathematics from the Arabic world
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
OK, question for you Mr happy fluffy loving Christian.
I do not believe in God. I try to live a good life, I try to treat others as I would like to be treated, I try to help out those less fortunate than me. But I do not accept the God into my heart, I do not believe in him and I resent Christianity for the blinkers it puts on the world and the retardation of scientific development in the world that it causes.
Has the West, for the past 600 years, been characterized by a ‘retarding of scientific development’? Almost all of the innovations of the past 500 years at least have been developed by Western men. When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners. Maybe you studied something different in school. Critical studies, perhaps.
You haven’t looked very far through a maths book if you think that most development in Maths has been from the West.
LOL. Ok. You’re right, I haven’t looked very for through a Maths book. I don’t know very much about Maths.
Well you were the one claiming that there has been no significant input into mathematics from the Arabic world[/quote]
Really? Can you point out to me where I said that?
Ok lets start with numbers, or arabic numerals as they are otherwise known, Algebra or Al-Jabr as it should be clearly has no relation to the Arabic world.
Ibn al-Banna was of course a well known Christian mathematician.
Irational numbers whilst proposed by the Chinese and Greeks independently were picked up and run with by well known Christians such as Abū Kāmil Shujā ibn Aslam.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Ok lets start with numbers, or arabic numerals as they are otherwise known, Algebra or Al-Jabr as it should be clearly has no relation to the Arabic world.
Ibn al-Banna was of course a well known Christian mathematician.
Irational numbers whilst proposed by the Chinese and Greeks independently were picked up and run with by well known Christians such as Abū Kāmil Shujā ibn Aslam.
So I can see where you are comming from…[/quote]
What? I feel like I’ve just entered the twilight zone.
CB, I think this conversation has passed the point of useful discussion. It’s getting entirely too weird for me.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners. Maybe you studied something different in school
Evidently I did study something different in school as I was taught about the huge history of Mathematics developed in Arabia, China and India.
Was this not covered at your school?[/quote]
Is there another PRCalDude you’re talking to on this thread?
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners. Maybe you studied something different in school
Evidently I did study something different in school as I was taught about the huge history of Mathematics developed in Arabia, China and India.
Was this not covered at your school?
Is there another PRCalDude you’re talking to on this thread? [/quote]
I just posted a direct quote from you where you stated [quote] When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners.[/quote]
What conclusion was I supposed to draw from that than that?
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners. Maybe you studied something different in school
Evidently I did study something different in school as I was taught about the huge history of Mathematics developed in Arabia, China and India.
Was this not covered at your school?
Is there another PRCalDude you’re talking to on this thread?
I just posted a direct quote from you where you stated When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners.
What conclusion was I supposed to draw from that than that? [/quote]
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners. Maybe you studied something different in school
Evidently I did study something different in school as I was taught about the huge history of Mathematics developed in Arabia, China and India.
Was this not covered at your school?
Is there another PRCalDude you’re talking to on this thread?
I just posted a direct quote from you where you stated When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners.
What conclusion was I supposed to draw from that than that?
That some of us made it beyond basic algebra. [/quote]
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners. Maybe you studied something different in school
Evidently I did study something different in school as I was taught about the huge history of Mathematics developed in Arabia, China and India.
Was this not covered at your school?
Is there another PRCalDude you’re talking to on this thread?
I just posted a direct quote from you where you stated When I bust out a math or physics book, I don’t find many theorems discovered by non-Westerners.
What conclusion was I supposed to draw from that than that?
That some of us made it beyond basic algebra.
[/quote]
But you wouldn’t have without those pesky Arabs.
As for Physics, there has been plenty of development in the field that has come out of China.
So yet again, you make a sweeping statement that is proved to be wrong then you try to sneak out of it.