Tweaking Carb Cycling for Optimal Results?

Nutrition
1

Hey guys, I figured I’d post my questions here as opposed to bodybuilding .com b/c you get a lot of crap answers over there… Anyway I’ll briefly explain what I’ve been doing for the past few weeks and lead it up to my question/s… So as the title indicates, I’ve been carb cycling for about ~2 months now… I’m 22yrs old, 5’9 161 with almost 10 years under the iron…

I decided to give carb cycling a go b/c of the regular leptin/t4 → t3 boost you get from ingesting a surplus of carbs, as well as the fact that it doesn’t feel as stressful as a slow and steady cut to trim that last bit of fat off…

My total carbohydrate calories- high ~300 grams (legs, back), moderate ~240 grams (Shoulders, Chest) and if I have an arms day, ~180g/lb or low <100 g/lb (typically off days) …My lifting days have been at or slightly above what I calculated my maintenance to be for lifting 4-5 days/week ~3000 cals (according to Katch-Mcardle), and my off days, usually 1-2/week are ~2300 cals.

So, now that we have that out of the way, here’s where I am stuck. First, the water retention I get from my high carb days makes it difficult to get an accurate gauge of the muscle I’m putting on/fat shedding off. It takes most people about 2 days of workouts w/ what I’m assuming are moderate/low carb days following to shed that excess water…Is it after these days, in the AM that I should expect to look my leanest, and then check my weight?

Secondly, the general rule of thumb for those <~10%bf is 3 high carb days max per week on the days you work the largest muscle groups, and the rest divvied up between moderate and low carbs. . Is this because the total amount of glycogen expended is naturally greater than as opposed to an arm day? Assuming total volume is consistent each day. I know more volume would naturally require greater glycogen replenishment…

I’ve read that putting high carb days on the day you work your weakest muscle group is a good way to bring up that lagging part. Or is this not a good idea as consuming high carbs while working a muscle group that has a lower glycogen capacity going to create a spillover effect into fat cells? Or would the high carbs on this day INCREASE the glycogen capacity of that particular muscle…?

Thirdly, is there an ideal structure to the high/med/low carb days that will minimize water retention and yet still provide a solid pump while during my gym session? Ex: High/low, med/low, med/low,high and repeat… It may be in my head but sometimes I feel when I have a ~100-125 low carb day(usually off days), followed by an arms day or any day for that matter, even when consuming carbs pre-workout, that the pump is much more difficult to attain or just non-existent…

And if I lift after a super high carb day, the excess water that I hold on too gives me a smoothed out appearance from the sub-cutaneous water. After my heavy sets I like to do a triple drop set or something similar to really get the blood/nutrients into the muscle, and its hit or miss…

I’ll wrap it up here with one final question…As I understand it, the regular high carb days like I said are to rev up the metabolism, which is something that’s important for consistent weight loss on a cut…Would it be illogical to use this same technique when beginning a bulk? Am I better off just consuming the cookie cutter +500cal/day and doing a slow and steady cut.

Perhaps a 4 week “mini-bulk” followed by a 2 week cut. Lowering carbs on off days but keeping them elevated on all lifting days. Then rinse and repeat… Thanks in advance for the assistance you guys provide…T-Nation!

2

What are your current goals? If you have been carb cycling for 2 months and cutting the carbs sound high.

Have you read all of Shelby Starnes stuff here?

I like high carb on leg or back day and that tends to be where people smarter more experienced than me also put their high carb day.

You should still be able to get a pump with lower carbs.

A 4 week mini bulk followed by a 2 week cut will probably get you no where. Your last paragraph makes me assume you’ve been cutting, carb cycling also works for bulking, you just need more calories and are cycling carbs to control fat gains.

3

Well, I wanted to get my 3 main compound lifts in the “elite” category @ 165 lbs before I really try to put on some weight…Squat and Bench is there but deads need some work… When I’m not holding onto extra water I’m at ~160 so I have about 5 pounds to spare/gain. I’d like to keep the same strength:weight ratio as I increase my weight.

As per the Shelby Starnes bit, no I have not but I will do that this evening…Would the pre workout carbs supply most of the glycogen for the “pump” for the days workout, or the accumulation of glycogen from previous days carbohydrates… Thanks

4

The pump is not carb dependent and honestly your low carb days aren’t all that low. Low glycogen is probably not going to be the rate limiting factor for you.

For a quick brief on what the pump is physiologically google hyperemia.

5

Yea I figured ~100 would still be a bit high for the off days… Sometimes I find myself getting an urge to do some ab work at home when I’m not at the gym…I tend to sneak in some carbs then… Perhaps I should half that amount say 50g regardless if I do ab work or not. If I do, keep it mainly pre.

6

If depleted glycogen is not the reason for my muscles inability to attain/maintain the pump, would it be possible that my carbohydrate sources could be the limiting factor? Or perhaps the “low carb” days not being low enough, thus me holding onto more water than usual…?

I decided to drop bread from my diet as I was surprised to see the amount of sodium it contains, as well as dairy… I used to have a lactose issue when I was younger(mainly with milkshakes w/ malt) so I’m not certain if that could be the cause. I’ve read that the indigestion from milk via the lack of the lactase enzyme can lead to bloating, and other unwanted side effects… I can drink milk and not have any real noticeable gastrointestinal issues, but it SEEMS that I have a little excess bloat when I do consume milk, nothing else. I plan on eliminating these 2 and to see if it dissipates.

Thanks mdg for the help

7

Youre drastically over-thinking things.

Theres a reason keeping shit simple seems to be king for most things in life.

8

I know I’m guilty of that…

9

bumping for a solid answer

10

going to bump again b/c I have an addition that pertains to my initial questions…Whats the more important factor to take into consideration when choosing high/mod/low days. 1. The muscle group lifted ex: Legs=high, chest/back split=high shoulder=mod, arms=mod, off=low, or should more weight be placed on the style of training… For example, higher repetition training (8-12) is more glycogen depleting than lower repetitions as they progress towards more neuromuscular gains and less of a demand for stored glycogen. Is this why its also recommended to lift very heavy while during a cut, which assumes a restriction of carbohydrates to pre and post workout…Thanks. I could start a new thread but we’ll see how this goes.

11

You lift heavy during a cut because you want a stimulus that causes your body to “want to” maintain as much muscle mass as possible.

I think that you a truely over thinking it.

Here’s what you should do:
You get one high day a week, I personally rotate that between my back and leg day depending on if I want to space out my high carb days further or not.
For now the rest of your training days are medium carb days.
Off days are low carb.

Go do this for at least two weeks with no modifications and see what happens. Then slowly manipulate the variable (carbs) based on your results.