Why would one assume good faith with a history of idiocy? Hell the best good faith arguments being presented are largely Trump defenders saying he’s far too stupid to have done this on purpose.
Are you assuming good faith when you talk about Biden? Or simply wanting it when people talk Trump?
A President who is a demonstrable idiot mixed with a long history of appealing to white supremacists (surprisingly most likely because of taxation apparently) might not have earned a good faith thread.
Well, we’ve had three years for all of the worst things everyone has said about him to come to pass, and they haven’t. Bad tweets, poor choices of words and some of his specific policies are concerning, but the predictions of Hitler 2.0 seem to have fallen quite short.
I think good faith assumption becomes more important on a personal level with all of the people you interact with. It is a trap in politics because I don’t see how it can lead you to any sound conclusions of your own. If you just want to feel good about yourself because you think you’re a better person, well, I guess I can understand that. I don’t find it helpful to shape my own thoughts on things like government policy.
It is obvious that politicians do not always act in good faith. That doesn’t mean you need to default to assuming bad faith. I try not to pre-judge any of that before there is an outcome in-hand to make sense of what happened.
I don’t think Biden has bad intentions in his heart. I don’t think most people do, including Trump. I think a lot of liberals have difficulty connecting the policies they support with the outcomes that get left in their wake. If I had to summarize my critique of modern liberals, it would be that sentence.
I have no question about the good intentions of your typical left wing voter. They’re probably far more benevolent than your typical right-winger, at least when it comes to spending other people’s money. Intent matters little, however, when terrible human outcomes get left in the wake of well-intentioned policy.
That’s your bar though? Sure horrific speeches, consistent dangerous rhetoric, disdain for people who remotely criticize him, etc but he’s not Hitler.
No Trump is not Hitler and he has real limits on his power. You can watch him consistently be jealous of other dictators because of those limits.
It seems like defending someone with they aren’t Hitler is an odd move.
We’re talking about whether it makes sense to assume bad intentions on Trump’s behalf. I’m not assigning his presidency a letter grade here.
No, I can’t. You can, but that’s only because you’ve assumed he has these feelings in his heart, presumably without ever having met the man.
Well you can certainly read them. But no I don’t know what’s in his “heart.” Maybe he just says all that stuff and doesn’t believe or mean any of it. Seems like a weird conclusion to come to, but I don’t know what’s in anyone’s heart. I suppose when we look at leaders all we can really do is look at what they say and do right? I mean what’s the point of even having a PWI forum we don’t know what is in the heart of any of these people.
Shit I never even met Hitler. It’s awful presumptuous of me to feel as if he was a bad person.
Curious as to how many of you knew even one fact about Juneteenth, prior to googling after hearing of this racialist rally.
I won’t bother asking about Tulsa, since l never heard of the massacre until my 2nd yr living there and after traveling there every other week for several years.
I didn’t know June 19th was even a thing.
Emancipation Proclamation and the Thirteenth Amendment were the anti-slavery milestones I remember learning about.
What did you read on there, that you felt was racist? Saying it is easier than ever for illegals to commit crimes? Bringing up race and crime stats? Being against DACA? I saw nothing racist. This is the type of stuff SJWs bring up when screaming racism.
**Not calling you an SJW.
I can honestly say I knew about both, but my dad and grandpa were massive history buffs.
Juneteenth I want to say has been in most people’s phone calendars as a holiday for a while which is honestly how probably a lot of people in the last little bit may have learned about it. I know I’ve seen events in my phone I looked up because I wasn’t aware of them.
Obviously might depend on whose phone but I’ve had an iPhone for a long time and I think it’s been there a bit.
Being a Kansas kid I may have been more likely to have heard of Tulsa not sure?
One of the points I have been trying to make is that it is really hard to find much that is a concrete thing a politician says that is demonstrably racist / white nationalist. It has happened, but it is rare. Politicians are good at cloaking their words so that it is hard to nail them down. Both sides do this.
IMO, it is a cumulation of things from Stephen Miller that lead me to the conclusion that he has nationalist ideas. Just one or two of these things, and I would not come to that conclusion. It is the sum total.
Maybe I am separated from reality or something, but if I knew someone who constantly brought up these items, I would conclude that they held some white nationalist views. Maybe not just talking and debating about them, but took Stephen’s strong stance would lead me to that conclusion.
Must be my liberal education, but we learned about both in elementary and middle school. But point taken, it doesn’t seem to be widely known.
Knowing what you know now about what happened in the Tulsa massacre, weren’t you a little shocked that you had never heard of it? Why do you think it isnt common historical knowledge? On top being an atrocity on a huge level, it happened the way Michael Bay would have designed it for a $200million movie.
History is littered with insanity. It really would be hard to have a working knowledge of every atrocity even in the past 100 years.
And to Trump deliberately hold a rally on that date in Tulsa, I really doubt he was even aware of it. If he were, white supremacists are a tiny voting block. Why go out of your way to throw up some veiled shout out? Sounds like bullshit.
I am born and raised in Los Angeles and I have never heard of either.
This can be said for most if not all of the history that is taught in school. They never teach you the truth, it always omits facts or sugar coats things.
What, exactly, do you think they were doing?
Trump is not campaigning for white supremacy but against black supremacy. It’s black racists who are the problem.
I have no f*ck’n clue…which is why I started the thread.
I wanted see the ideas of the “PWI” (who can be pretty insightful about things).
Based on what’s been written so far 1) that was the nearest open date and 2) Trump wants to highlight all of his tax cutting policy.
Tulsa Oklahoma it is!
On July 19th! Can’t wait!
You honestly think it has nothing to do with racial prejudice that the greatest instance of racial violence of the past century, something out of a Michael Bay movie, something that destroyed the most succesful black community america had seen (the black wall street) and became a warning to african americans about what would happen if they became succesful, was just swept under the rug and forgotten about in schools and society?
I certainly do not. I think there are countless instances of black history in america being surpressed and intentioanlly left out of school textbooks and thus cultural common knowldege.
I dont doubt trump didnt know about the Tulsa massacre a week ago (though he’d claim no one knew more about it than himself). But he sure did know about it on Wednesday. If he continues with his inflamatory rhetoric against BLM and the blm protests/movement happening across our nation on the day of the abolition of slavery, in the city of the greatest racial violence against blacks in american history, you should have your answer if he is intentionally dividing the country.
Well honestly to the people who vehemently argue that what this President says has no bearing or importance at all (likely not something they felt during the Obama years, but don’t feel like digging old posts up) then why would where and when matter?
I think it’s very likely that Trump is attempting to lure African-Americans out to protest his obviously racist rally so that his white supremacist followers can slaughter them.
Events like this should darken the souls of all who claim decency.
I’m not sure if shocked at not knowing, but yes - surprised. Growing up where and when l did, a common mindset (in my working class upbringing) would have been ignorance of a [then] 50 year old event, indifference, or antipathy.
Moving forward to today, 100 years later. I think it is a suitable historical event to instruct how racial fires can be stoked. And to teach the Golden Rule.
*Still working on that one,