There are plenty of people arguing for diversity sans merit.
I guess I’ll have to take your word for it?
I might agree in principle, but I think as a matter of practicality it’s not likely you’re going to know one put themselves through night shifts.
There are most definitely people who do this. Depending on the person they may or may not be actual professionals (like antifa seem to be a bunch of angry basement dwellers). But the perception among center-right and right leaning people at least is that much…not most necessarily…of the diversity drive is at all costs.
I don’t agree with this “at all costs” thing whatsoever. And as I identify center-right I can say that it “feels” to me that way and has for a while. This might be a consequence of my location or some sort of other bias, but this is an optics problem that does exist for millions of people. I think fixing the optics - no idea on the solutions - would go a long way. Most people in my… well not personal circle but center-right people I’m acquainted with in real life… are all for diversity, but feel the same as I do to varying degrees.
I think I’m a pretty reasonable person, so I think this perception is something others feel too.
Do you think diversity initiatives, as have been described here, are good ideas? The not-at-all-costs version?
In general yes, diversity is a way to try to push historically disadvantaged people into parity. I don’t like affirmative action though.
My point was rather that there is a perception problem, and that “perception = reality” for most folks. This needs to be figured out and diversity would be a really easy talking point.
1 Like
He did have an Irish Legion, specifically raised for the invasion, but Irish commissioned officers were below the rank of general. On the other hand, the Austrian army commissioned over 100 Irish generals and field marshals between the 17th and the early 20th century.
There’s also the amazing story of Peter Lacy from Limerick (Pyotr Lassi in Russian) and his son Francis who ended up becoming field marshals in the Russian and Austrian army respectively.
You did have a Marechal and later President of France though.
1 Like
I’m confused as to whether we’re still talking about Cabinet picks, or whether we’ve moved on to affirmative action and are talking about broad groups of people.
At the highest levels of government, generally people’s histories are known, as they are deeply vetted as well as typically having served in high profile positions previously.
I was answering the “most diverse Cabinet ever” good/bad question.
But I do agree that GE has no reason to ask job candidates for info about their hardships, nor for it to be brought up by the job-seeker, unless organically. “Oh, you grew up in Philly? I loved Joe’s Diner!” “Joe’s? I worked there all through college!”
The GE interviewer is presumably looking at two or more candidates with similarly positive resumes (or they would not have made it to the interview stage), and then choosing among them for reasons that could range from feeling a strong rapport to a desire to have either a more diverse crew, or less. But I don’t think in today’s world it’s a matter of having to take a “C” student over an “A” student because of quotas.
And yes, there should absolutely be initiatives to encourage poor kids out of the ghetto and to improve health care, education, job opportunity, etc, in low income areas.
As both JFK and Reagan noted, a rising tide lifts all boats.
2 Likes
Well, hopefully, if it ever gets brought up around you IRL, you can make clear that supporting diversity doesnt JUST mean at-all-costs. This is another issues that has been made black and white (from what ive seen by the rightwing media/pols and far-left) and made possible by people who believe in the gray not standing up. Same situation with the BLM movement- the right has made it into anyone who supports the blm movement is a marxist who supports rioting and violence, there is no middle ground. meanwhile the VAST majority of supporters believe in no such thing.
My point is, be vocal about what you like and dont like while thinking for yourself. Don’t treat issues as black and white if they are not black and white to you. Don’t fall into the trap of polarization, black-white. There is a lot of gray middle ground on all these issues, so you need to say so. No need to wait for someone else to say so first. This is especially important for people like yourself who i imagine people actually respect and listen to IRL.
1 Like
I was wrong, it was a reference to ancient Greek mythology today. And how can anyone expect bojo to have a deal outlined when Keir hasn’t said which one he would back. What?
1 Like
I’m confused now too lol. I answered in the general sense. I agree with you on cabinet posts, all of those people are pretty much known quantities due to their extensive vetting and previous positions.
Agreed as well. This is one of the things I think is difficult with many of the diversity initiatives. I don’t think many if any employers really actively want a less diverse crew in any case.
Agree. As Z notes though, some of the problems here are the people’s attitudes themselves.
Thanks for the thoughts mate, I think you’re preaching to the choir here haha. I agree with what you say.
I do think that Starmer has a habit of sitting on fences, particularly on lockdown measures. The amount of abstaining from the opposition has been jaw dropping this year.
No surprise that there’s some Grecian referencing from Johnson. Honestly, if he kept it to one, that’s a restrained day from him.
1 Like
I agree that abstaining constantly is poor and I criticised Corbyn for it. but I think with brexit at this stage he’s showing that bojo did lie and had no clue what a deal should be. Bojo still can’t even loosely define what happens 1st January. Our businesses have no idea what to prepare for. Remember to Check, change, go.
On lockdown measures I’m really frustrated across the board. Schools aren’t told what is going on till the last minute, parents have no chance.
I’ll take this chat to brexit on the next reply. Does that count as Delphic silence?
2 Likes
I imagine it does!
1 Like
It’s important to ask, what is diversity?
Diversity with regard to experience and perspective is one thing, and it’s probably a good thing, but diversity based on skin color or someone’s last name is silly as it assumes that something like skin color means something when it comes to experience and perspective; it does not. Every black person is not different from every white person.
Wasn’t sure where to post this - whether here or start a new thread for 2020 Congress discussion. Anyway, McConnell is trying to make sure the damage is limited and move on. Seems that people are finally realizing that the continued charade is going to hurt their Senate chances.
McConnel has to convince those who are considering the charade that the needs of the party outweigh their own reelection efforts. Good luck. Tuberville, Rand, etc all know it’s a charade, their just playing it up for their base. They probably feel like they have to or they’ll face a challenger in the next cycle who accuses them of being disloyal to Trump. It’s also possible Trump runs again in 24’ and endorses a ring kisser if they don’t do object on 1/6.
Serious question: Did I miss something with Rand Paul?
For some reason, It caught me by surprise when he went “Full Trump” …conspiracies and all.
Is it as simple as being a Senator from Kentucky, whose concussion from his neighbor was more serious than we thought…or does his Libitarian schtick somehow fit in well with Trump-ism?
Again…I really was surprised.
Thoughts?
Not sure about Tuberville, I know nothing at all about him other than coaching history. Rand does know it’s a charade though.
I find the possibility of Trump as a kingmaker in the party absolutely laughable, but I always tend to underestimate how craven politicians are.