Yeah, and this worries me. We talked about this kinda thing in one of the other threads (don’t remember which), but most people used to live in the same factual world as everyone else until recent years. Trump was an inflection point for acceleration but by no means the root cause (I view him as more a symptom). The media IS another cause as dt79 has been talking about and as I alluded to I’m my last post to treco.
Like, I’m pretty sure Californiagrown and I don’t agree on much policy wise. But we’re operating in the same world of facts and we can have a productive discussion which might over time away one of us. This is not the case for many people right now and we need to fix this, fast.
I’ve said for years, Trump isn’t the cause of America’s fracturing, he’s the beneficiary of it. I wish Biden the best of luck, but I don’t think there’s a man of any quality who could fix that mess.
Fingers crossed I am wrong, but there appears to be no issue that doesn’t descend into partisan rancour.
Edit: that’s not to say the U.K. is above partisan rancour, but our culture war didn’t extend into COVID policy, which is something.
We did get an import of BLM street disorder, which I’d prefer you chaps kept for yourselves.
This is spot on and it’s true of all the major news outlets, especially their prime time talking heads. I posted on another thread my disgust with Don Lemmon and Anderson Cooper and their style of reporting.
This isn’t the worst thing going on right now though. You can read/watch CNN or Fox and figure out what’s going on. They’ll report on the same things for the most part with different headlines and differing language, but you can sift through it to get facts for the most part. I grew up reading the Washington Post so I learned early how to weed out liberal leanings in articles and just absorb facts.
Now, as we’re discussing all over the place in these threads, there’s just complete bullshit being put out there by our elected officials and some of their supporters and social media has bypassed the news outlets. What’s going on now is that people are absorbing information that is completely devoid of facts.
From an outsider’s perspective I just see a country doing everything it can to accelerate the process of losing its status as the worlds eminent superpower. Ditch the two party system and kick Trump, along with his loyal band of halfwits, to the curb. I just worry that the cat is too far out of the bag and the political divide can’t be bridged.
Yes… it’s “something” for sure …and believe me, I wish the unemployed freaks had kept it in their hives as well. Anyone who would desecrate a statue of Lord Nelson or Churchill can rot.
The goal was to get Pence to flip the electoral college votes over to Trump, or at the very least prevent the votes from being counted. They were trying to use intimidation and force to change the results of a democratic election. There were people roaming the building with handcuffs, and there was a gallows erected in the courtyard. Countless people who forced their way inside called it a revolution, taking the country back, etc. But I guess you have “feelings” about this. Gosh!
There’s no question at all. I agree with you. I don’t think bias is the same thing as fact-free reporting or conspiracy theory. They’re not even the same world.
But I do point them out as contributing to the very serious problem, because they can push people away who otherwise would be reasonable. And these same people find accommodating reporting and world views in the alternatives.
Something like 40% of Republicans say they believe in Qanon (it depends on which poll you read, but it’s roughly half). There’s not enough moderates in the GOP for them to win national elections without Qanon voters. That’s exactly why moderates in Congress have been so cautious about opposing Trump. They can’t afford to lose theTrump voters or the Qanon voters (in many cases, they are one and the same).
It’s an “opinion poll” to ask people what they think? Oh. That means every poll is an “opinion poll”. I don’t put stock in any one poll but there’s are several polls like this and the point is that a major segment of the GOP vote believes in Qanon to some degree. Way too many people for the GOP to simply cut loose, unless they can afford to spend a few years rebuilding the party. And I don’t think they have the appetite to do that, or even a consensus that doing that is the way to proceed.
I say 20 million as a super conservative estimate because it’s half of that number, and even someone who hates polls can agree with it (for the sake of argument), it’s so conservative. 20 million is a shitton, still.
I don’t actually think that’s the case. You might be right, but I don’t think that’s the case. For me personally they’re going to have to rebuild because I have a long memory and they botched these 4 years abominably. But that’s not everyone, and I don’t think the crazies are strong enough (yet) to pull the party away.
FYI that was one of the (many) big reasons I am pissed at the GOP for coddling Trump. If you strangle this shit in the crib it doesn’t become a capitol hill riot and you don’t risk Trump becoming a kingmaker.
Fwiw I think his king making days are over after this.
Sadly I think the aftermath is going to take a while. Just hoping that was the worst of it and the military/intelligence/cops/etc can prevent anything else in the short term. Especially Inauguration Day. Thank goodness for Covid we shouldn’t expect a giant mass of “regular” Dems or Republicans there.
You would already expect an inauguration during a pandemic to be incredibly low. This could largely be a meeting of leftist loons and whatever right wing loons still think role playing an action movie where you take over a capitol is cool.
Either way you’ve got impeachment round two, Trump’s next moves, etc. The end of this thread is a while away in terms of legitimate political discussion. Though maybe it needs a new name.
The bigger problem here is not Trump.
Trump was half bad of what Obama was and both are war criminals which should be sued for war crimes. Obama for what is going on in Syria, Trump for what is going on in Yemen. However Trump was the lesser evil of both.
It is what is coming with Biden. A war with Turkey? Hopefully a proxy war like what is going on in Yemen, rather than an actual war like in Syria.
CIA is out of control and Biden is not capable to control it. Trump, no matter how incompetent he is, at least shut down American operations in Syria, but was tricked into Yemen. Was also tricked with Russia, China and North Korea by the incompetence of Bolton and the media.
Also China and Taiwan. I guess Taiwan is going to be gone with Biden in power and his relations in China. China is going to be number 1 power in the world? That is fucking scary.
Other scary things going on at the moment. You have big cooperations going berserk against free speech. You can not go full totalitarian and silence what people think and believe. Even Angela Merkel criticized the actions against Trump. You sit down and debate. No matter if it is Quanon conspiracy theories or anything. This is unacceptable.
The actions against Plarer are unacceptable as well. It is funny because only we in Europe fight against the actions of Google, Facebook, while America as the place for free speach gave up on that war and went full totalitarian. It is pure chaos.
You don’t legitimize conspiracy theories. Those people are cultists. I assume you mean Parler here - the government didn’t do anything, this was other private companies, their lawyers, and other support contractors telling them they didn’t agree. That’s still protected action.
The free speech laws we have refer to government not being able to restrict free speech, they don’t refer to private entities.
…and believe me, I wish the unemployed freaks had kept it in their hives as well. Anyone who would desecrate a statue of Lord Nelson or Churchill can rot.