TRT for Grief Recovery

Training Over 35 Lifter
1

I’m 39, and a newly licensed attorney. Over the years I’ve enjoyed a number of T-manish endeavors such as jujitsu, semi-pro football, and I was very active in competitive powerlifting when I got the opportunity to go back to school and study law in my mid 30’s. The last few years have been something out of the book of Job with the stresses of law school, preparing for the bar, 2 car accidents, some weight fluctuations, and looking for a job.

I was just starting to get my feet back under me when there was an unexpected death in the family (Cancer is a serious killer). Now I find myself pudgy and bloated, no maintainable motivation to train, no desire to date (noone looks good right now), a lot of achy joints from powerlifting and the 2 car accidents, and trying to learn a new job with a foggy head. I could sleep all day if the dog would let me.

Would I be a good candidate for TRT? I know if I go back to my overweight MD he’d probably just try to put me on anti-depressants. I’m not particularly interested in that. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

2

Well, it can’t hurt to go to the doc and get everything checked out - test, thyroid etc. Post your results and we can go from there. I don’t know why you’d be more receptive to one drug over an other - especially when your hoping to affect the same system. Best of luck to you.

3

You are a good candidate for TRT if your testosterone is low.

If your test isn’t low, then it is something else. Pudgy, unmotivated, low energy? Maybe you are diabetic and need to get your insulin level regulated!

So that would be the first thing to find out – is your testosterone level low?

Get tested.

If it is low, then the doc will want to find out if what is causing it. (i.e. primary (testicles failed) or secondary (other endocrine causes – testicles not getting the right signals)

4

The effects of testosterone and estradiol levels on mood are highly individual so there is no telling what exact effects TRT would have in terms of grief recovery for you.

As has been correctly said, you need to at least start with some blood numbers for an idea of what may be going on and what would be the best course of action.

5

I am dealing with some of the issues you describe right now. My first reaction is that you sound overtrained and over-exposed. Yes, you should see a doctor, if only to exclude additional stress factors, but in parallel try to back off from your immediate concerns and take two weeks off training. Go for a random walk, eat somewhere unplanned, see a movie you would not plan to and in general, just go mellow for a few weeks.

This is no magic cure. Your troubles will not disappear, but it could in the long run help you have the strength to deal with them.

tqb

6

If I were a lawyer, I’d be depressed, too.

7

[quote]Undone wrote:
If I were a lawyer, I’d be depressed, too.[/quote]

Yeah, but you’d get over it.

OP, I feel your pain. I was married with one kid when I started law school. I went to school during the day and played dad at night. Kid #2 was born just before first year exams. My father died from prostate cancer right after first year exams. During the second year, my mother was diagnosed with brain cancer. She died right after second year exams. Third year was a breeze. Then son #3 was born the day after graduation.

Eat right (plenty of meat, fish, chicken and good fats); lose weight by dumping the majority of simple carbs in your diet (no bread - white or wheat, no rice no potatoes, no sugar); train hard and often with compound lifts; get a complete physical, and get your T levels checked. Stay away from anti-depressants if you can. They will dull your thinking and make it harder to do your new job well.

I echo Push. Forty-seven ain’t old. But it can feel like it if you are depressed, fat and tired.

8

Gents,
I appreciate the responses. Loose Tool you’re experience sounds even worse than mine, thanks for sharing. I also got a very informative PM from KSman.

Does anyone have any suggestions for picking out a good doc? From the links KSman sent me I’ve found 2 that are practically in walking distance. 1 I’m a bit leery of because he really pushes this Mesotherapy for fat loss. I did a search here and it’s not highly regarded among the T-Nation. The other is a bit pricey but if neccesary I’ll bite the bullet.

What kind of costs should I be expecting?

Also, is bioidentical hormone therapy the same thing as TRT/HRT?

9

[quote]Spike9726 wrote:
Gents,
I appreciate the responses. Loose Tool you’re experience sounds even worse than mine, thanks for sharing. I also got a very informative PM from KSman.

Does anyone have any suggestions for picking out a good doc? From the links KSman sent me I’ve found 2 that are practically in walking distance. 1 I’m a bit leery of because he really pushes this Mesotherapy for fat loss. I did a search here and it’s not highly regarded among the T-Nation. The other is a bit pricey but if neccesary I’ll bite the bullet.

What kind of costs should I be expecting?

Also, is bioidentical hormone therapy the same thing as TRT/HRT?[/quote]

Make a list of what your objective are and what you want to do, that will make a doc show his cards quite quickly.

Costs can be low if injecting and using Costco or a Sam’s Business Member card. Transdermals are expensive.

Testosterone esters are a delivery and time release system. As the test esters are absorbed, they reacted with proteins in several fashions and the ester molecular group is stripped off yielding bio-identical testosterone. The bio identical issue shows up mostly in female HRT and OBC (oral birth control), where drug companies make synthetic hormone structures motivated by the ability to patent the ‘drug’. These ‘fake’ hormones are not created to optimise the heath of the patient, but to optimize profits.

Men can take hCG which is natural bio-id, not synthetic. There is also a bio-identical rDNA (recombinant DNA) hCG which costs 3 or 4 times more than non rDNA. Pregnenolone and DHEA are bio-identical. Vitamin D is bio-identical and the body makes that into V-D hormone. Thyroid hormones are bio-id. Armour thyroid is natural source and a proper combo of T3 and T4. These porcine [pork derived] hormones are reported to have the same structure as human.

If there is a slight difference, that is something that I do not know about. rDNA insulin is bio-id. Many hGH hormones are bio-id or very close to bio-id. Men have very few concerns about bio-id issues. Women are treated like lab rats. Watch to see when a T product to improve female libido gets approved. I would expect to see a new testosterone drug patented to grant a monopoly and high prices. Who was pulling the strings at the FDA to reject the product with bio-id T? Natural hormones cannot be patented, even though a means of production can be).

10

I’d stay away from any doctor promoting Mesotherapy. Injections for fat loss? Gimme a break.

11

I ordered the blood test from LEF this week. Should be here soon. Also went back to the gym this week and started eating clean again. Found out one of my chiropractors uses HRT and he gave me the name of yet another Doc. I may start a recovery thread.

12

Going for my blood test Saturday, dreading the 12 hour fast.

I’ve been eating pretty clean and I’ve hit the gym several times this week, so far focusing on cardio, stretching, front squats and upper back work.

I’ve got a number of physical issues to work out including shoulder impingement (too much bench in my youth), overly tight psoas (powerlifting), and a wrecked upper back/neck (car accident). After Mom passed whatever aches and pains I had were magnified. I’ll start implementing magnificent mobility again and maybe get a copy of inside-out as well.

I’ve already lost a couple of pounds, probably flushing more than anything. I haven’t gotten that strict on carbs yet but I’m eating clean, plus lots of veggies and water and even cut back on the coffee. I’m having to hit the bathroom more frequently and I’ve got a bit of a headache.

I’m going to get a digital camera one of these weekends, it would take some cajones to put my pics on here right now. I hate the size of my gut, and I’m very aware of the heath risks of hard fat. I’d like to drop an entire weight class, possibly do a powerlifting meet in the 220’s this summer. I’m at about 235 right now.

Gonna get up early and do some AM cardio to get ready to crash early Friday for the 12 hour fast. I’ll post my results when I get them.

13

In spite of tough circumstances, look at what you have managed to accomplish. That deserves proper recognition. Have you engaged your grief? I’m not a shrink but I think it bears consideration. In other words, is there reason to believe that you shouldn’t be experiencing sad feelings? I’m all for hrt, but the post title is worded in such a way as to make it sound like you think your emotions are unwarranted and a hindrance, and that trt will pull you out of the hole so to speak. Love the hole, maybe (within reason)… does that make any sense? I wish you well.

14

[quote]Undone wrote:
If I were a lawyer, I’d be depressed, too.[/quote]

QFT.

When my wife was living day by day with cancer I had my test checked because I almost went insane. Doctor said that even though it tested low,550, I was a big guy so no dice.

The sicker my wife got the harder I worked out.

15

[quote]Mike A wrote:
In spite of tough circumstances, look at what you have managed to accomplish. That deserves proper recognition. Have you engaged your grief? I’m not a shrink but I think it bears consideration. In other words, is there reason to believe that you shouldn’t be experiencing sad feelings? I’m all for hrt, but the post title is worded in such a way as to make it sound like you think your emotions are unwarranted and a hindrance, and that trt will pull you out of the hole so to speak. Love the hole, maybe (within reason)… does that make any sense? I wish you well. [/quote]

Engaged my grief? I’m not quite sure what that means. I did go to grief recovery class that my church put on. It helped a bit but I’m still too numb. Ironically I’ve taken better care of myself the last few weeks, and feeling better makes me feel worse. It’s like instead of a stressed out, half asleep zombie who lives on fast food and hates his job, I’m eating right, lifting, consistent in church, so my body is feeling better so internally I’m sadder-actually dealing with the emotions.

Unwarranted? No, I’ve just lost my best friend. A hinderence, very much so. I’ve only been licensed a year, was in a prior position at work for about 6 months, then I got a lateral move just about 6 weeks before she went back into the hospital then died within a few days. Now I’m trying to learn a totally new job (law school, much like college, has very little practical application. It’s basically a rite of passage where they take your money, haze you mentally, and the rest of the time you chase a few girls, hit the weights, and party occassionally), plus handle the affairs of the estate, care for my step-father, and take care of a house. I’ve got a lot to deal with even for a healthy person, I feel like I need to get healthy again just to handle my own life.

I had 2 car accidents basically weeks apart, the second one really jarred my back and neck. I think it was KSman that pointed out that might be scewing with something. I then found out that mom had cancer about 2 weeks before I took the bar exam. Since that point I’d never really been able to generate the same intensity in the gym. There are also other factors involved with that but I’ve noticed that a lot of the posters here seem to be hitting the wall at about the same age (late 30’s, early 40’s).

Enjoy the hole? Not exactly sure what that means. I definitely appreciated your post. Thanks for the kind words.

16

My results, not sure I understand them:
Glucose Serum: 100 Flagged as HIGH
Uric acid, serum: 6.8
BUN 19
Creatinine, Serum 1.1
Sodium, Serum 142
potasium, serum 5.0
chloride, serum 103
calcium, serum 10.2
Phosphorus, serum 4.1
Protein, total, serum 7.0
Albumin, serum 4.4
Globulin, Total 2.2
A/G ratio 1.7
Biliburin, Total 0.8
alkaline, phosphatase, S 49
LDH 180
AST(SGOT) 48 HIGH (no clue)
ALT(SGPT) 65 HIGH (no clue)
GGT 36
Iron, Serum 77

Lipids:
Total cholesterol 192
Triglicerides 187 HIGH
HDL Cholesterol 47
LDL Cholesterol Calc 108 HIGH
Total Chol/HDL Ratio 4.1
Estimated CHD Risk 0.7

Homocyst (e) ine,P 5.8
Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum 0.4
Free Testosterone 10.1 pg/ml
DHEA Sulfate 168
Estradiol 31
Adult male <54

Another page I’m too tired to type for now

at the very bottom

Testosterone, Serum 303 ng/dl

17

I’ve been eating clean since Jan 2, just don’t call it a new years resolution.
I squatted 225 x 5 x 2 earlier this week, rack pulled (just below knee) 225 x 5 x 4 last night. I’ve lost about 3 pounds and about 1/4 an inch off the widest part of my waist so far.

I’m now 5’11" 233, waistline at widest is 43 1/4.

18

Can you tie down the car accident to when you feel your hormone status changed?

Your hormone T levels are low for your age and I can see why this might be killing your training and initiative.

Glucose serum is border line, not a big deal. If it is insulin sensitivity related [resistance], at least TRT is known to improve that.

Your E2 is moderate, but it could be having an inordinate effect relative to your low FT. With weight problems and low T numbers, increased E can be expected that also locks in weight problems. Mix in some insulin resistance [not indicated in your numbers] and there is a condition called metabolic disorder or syndrome X that is consistent with all of that. One thing characteristic of this as it progresses an apple shaped gut. TRT is definitely a good way to tackle this. That TRT would need Arimidex/anastrozole to work most effectively. Your waistline of 43.75 creates great concern. Not the most measure their waistline at its narrowest, not widest !:wink:

Triglycerides can come down with exercise. What you eat 24 hours before your blood work can also influence that number. Could be a fast food hangover.

PSA is great. Homocycsteine is good.

====================================
C-reactive protein (CRP) is also very important - the lower the better. It is an inflammatory marker.

You need a doctor who will treat your symptoms and your TT-FT levels relative to your age. Some docs will see that your TT-FT is in normal lab range and do nothing.

Your DHEA-s is decent. Some progressive docs might say sub-optimal. Your T levels certainly are sub optimal. Next step is to find some prospective doctors and know what you are asking for and how to push for what you want. Write down all of your symptoms to accompany your lab numbers.

Some docs may want to follow up with:

Thyroid: TSH, T4, FT4, FT3. These numbers can shift/improve with TRT and it might be more useful to check these after TRT is put in place so the thyroid numbers are then associated with normalized/restored testosterone status instead of perhaps only a symptom of hypogonadism.

LH, FSH: These are part of the hypogonadism picture. If your pituitary is damaged from trauma or disease, then LH and FST can be low and that would explain the low T numbers. In many cases, knowing this does not really help matters as one still has to do TRT if this or the testes are the cause.

DHT: Some will test for this to get a base line. This will always increase with TRT and they will look for DHT getting way too high, very rare. I don’t see how testing this before starting TRT adds any practical value. Low DHT will cause many of the symptoms of hypogonadism, as many have found out who take 5-alpha reductase inhibitors to lower DHT for prostate or hair loss concerns.

19

The rest of page 3:

C-reactive Protein, cardiac 0.85
Relative low risk of cardiac even <1.00?
Is this good?

CBC, platelet ct, and diff
WBC 6.4
RBC 4.71
Hemoglobin 14.4
Hematocrit 41.2
MCV 88
MCH 30.6
MCHC 34.9
RDW 13.2
Platelets 266
Neutrophils 62
Lymphs 28
Monocytes 6
Eos 4
Basos 0
Neutrophils(absolute) 4.0
Lymphs (absolute) 1.8
Monocytes (absolute) 0.4
Eos (absolute) 0.3
Baso (absolute) 0.0

I have no idea what any of these #s mean

20

KSMan,
I guess AST and ALT are liver enzymes?

To answer your questions:

No prescription meds at all. Over the last few months I’ve tried various comibinations of HOT-ROX, Caffeine-Free Spike, these 2 mostly before I work out. TRIBEX (not consistently), and REZ-V. I take ZMA before bed which seems to help a bit. I’m always tired when I wake up.

Alcohol consumption is almost non-existent. I’ve had 1 beer total since New Years. I don’t sleep well when I drink.

As the the wreck here’s a basic timeline. There were a lot of things happening in a short period of time.

-5/2006 got bar results, missed by 19 points out of 1000. Before this I’d been workin out steadily

-Thursday before Memorial day/2006, 1st car accident: no injuries but my truck totalled by an uninsured motorist, cost me about $15,000 and a lot of stress (Farmer’s really dropped the ball for me)

-About a week later, a speeding ticket in BFE, set me back about $500.

-Late June/2006-2nd car accident (had the new truck 3 days), didn’t have time to start rehab/treatment right away, still hurts to this day. Have sought several chiropractors with some results but unable to string many visits together (long story.

-Approximately July 11, 2006, found out my mom had breat cancer

-July 26-28, sat for the Texas Bar exam for a second time.

Within 2 weeks I’d finished my internship, graduated, and was hitting the gym again, somehow the old intensity was just never quite there. Was taking mom to her chemo treatments and started my job search. Found out I passed the bar in November. Found a full time job in early February. Didn’t really like it much and the motivation at the gym was lacking.

KSMan, basically everything went to pot that month or so, hard to pinpoint one thing. Can’t believe I’ve posted all this for the world to see.