New TRT guy here. Been weight training seriously since about age 20-21. Got to the point where I was very strong (bent over rows w/ 315-405 for reps, squatting in the 500’s, leg pressing 1300+ lbs, deadlift @ 500) and was all natural at a max of 210 lbs @ about 13-15% BF. Always had a pretty spot on diet, but never got excessively lean. Had some pretty bad injuries that set me back, but such is life. However, for the past 2-3 years, just haven’t felt on my game. Losing strength, putting on fat while on a lean diet, being sore from basic workouts for 3-5 days, lack of sex drive, tired all the time, moody & irritable, inability to concentrate, etc. So at my current age 31, I finally went to a Low T Center, that is supposed to specialize in treating low test.
Here’s my results from my initial bloodwork (the ones that matter the most anyways)
They gave me my first bolus shot of 200mg cypionate for the first week and started a 100mg/week protocol for the next 3 weeks. They then do another basic blood test every month to evaluate progress. I’ll post my 2nd month results in a reply to get this going.
So, no change after a dosage upping of 20mg. Now, they have bumped current dosage to 140 mg, and will be doing bloodwork next week.
Current things I’m experiencing: I started off at about 195-196 lbs. I have gained right at 20 lbs, and have gone up a shirt size to fit me in arms/shoulders/chest and a pant size to fit my legs, waist has stayed the same. However, I am def holding some water and am a little puffy in the midsection and love handle areas. Low T Center says that will go away and that I will lose all that weight, but so far that 20 lbs has stayed on me for 2 months.
Low T Center said they want to see my free test at a minimum of 12-15, but prefer to see at the 15-20 range, and as high as 22-24. They said they would have my dosage figured out by the 3rd month, and so far, I’m not even at the normal range. Getting a little frustrated at this point. Also, they have not recommended an AI, and said that HCG is of no purpose. Any thoughts on this?
I think getting free T up a bit is a reasonable goal. I shoot for the 20s, but you shouldn’t feel like shit at 15. It seems to me that getting SHBG down would be a good idea. I have low SHBG, so I haven’t done much research in this area and can’t be of much assistance. Looking into possible thyroid issues would be a good start. I would have them run testing suggested in the stickies. If they don’t want to do it, testing on your own would be a prudent step. Increasing T dose in the mean time shouldn’t be and issue, but make sure you also keep E2 levels in 20s.
I wouldn’t dismiss including HCG, but waiting until they have you where they’d like you be before adding it on your own is probably the best course for now. My nuts shriveled up and went north almost immediately, so I added it in early. My doc was ok with this so it didn’t compromise the work I was doing with him.
Well, what’s hacking me off is that they said they will have this figured out in 3 months. I figured that hey, this is what they specialize in, so sounds great. But, I am not even at normal levels after 10 weeks. They are barely upping the dosage and claiming they’re afraid they might give me too much. Seriously? Also, I have to drive about 40 minutes round trip for something that takes about 5 minutes to accomplish.
Just need to find a good TRT doc that understands the in’s & out’s and will give me a script so I can inject at home, and knows what all paramaters to keep in check.
That would be nice. The last one I had scripted 200mg / week and let me play around with dosing. I ended up using a lot less that that. Doing testing on my own was cheap, so that’s what I did. I also tweaked HCG and AI dosing. Checked in with him every 6 months or so. That’s about all he was good for. I didn’t gain any knowledge, but it was better than dealing with the other endos I had tried. Finding docs like that seems tough, and he ended up retiring after some malpractice suit an/or losing his license.
Well, looks like free test is up significantly from where I originally started at 6!!!
However, there are 2 different people I am dealing with at this clinic. The one I dealt with today said he’s not comfortable going any higher than 15 for my free test. Yet the other guy said he likes to see upwards of 20+.
Also, I think my E2 is high, however I am asymptomatic and feel pretty decent. However, I wonder if it was lower around 15-20 if I would feel even better? And possibly lose some water weight??
They did bump my shot to 150 mg/wk, as they gave me a slightly higher dose last week due to me stating that I felt a little tired. So, we are going to run at 150 mg/wk for 4 weeks and retest. The guy I dealt with today is worried that E2 levels may go into the 40’s and told me to keep any eye out for any symptoms.
You need hcg. Most feel better on it, plus it will keep your nuts full. If you ever want kids, you need to be on it.
You need to get an AI. If they won’t prescribe you one, go the rc route. You’re likely feeling down from the elevated E2. Get that in check, and you can likely back off the T dose.
I would want to self administer, at home. 2x/wk (so 1/2 your total dose each time) will make you feel better - less peaks and valleys.
[quote]Cooper1test wrote:
PDubAggie - any updates? I am curious as I am also being treated at one of these centers and so far my results are very similar to yours.[/quote]
Cooper1test,
I am having bloodwork done tomorrow again and will have the results next week. The TRT center has now changed their testing protocol from every 4 weeks to every 6 weeks. Bodyweight is still 215-218 depending on the day. Muscular endurance, sex drive, mood are pretty dang good. Still asyptomatic in regards to nipples itching/sensitivity or anything like that.
However, I still look kinda puffy and am def holding some water still. The TRT doc said that they have guys with E2 levels as high as 70 that have no symptoms, and thus do not treat the levels. They said this is therapeutic treatment, where they are not so much as concerned with numbers as they are with how you feel.
Pending my results next week w/ E2 levels, I may consider running a cycle of PES Erase and see what that does. If my E2 levels are in the 40’s, I’m going to do something about it. I don’t believe that it’s OK for E2 levels to nearly double and not believe that it will cause any type of change. I believe I am much more in touch with how my body responds than alot of guys on TRT, and I don’t mean that in a negative way. I have been a gym rat for years, so I’m pretty in tune with my athletic performance and visual appearance. Alot of the guys I have seen at the clinic are just “normal” guys who its pretty apparent haven’t seen a gym in a while and are just looking to feel better. This is where I am not totally agreeance with the TRT clinic in just going by “feelings” and not numbers.
[quote]catfish74 wrote:
You need hcg. Most feel better on it, plus it will keep your nuts full. If you ever want kids, you need to be on it.
You need to get an AI. If they won’t prescribe you one, go the rc route. You’re likely feeling down from the elevated E2. Get that in check, and you can likely back off the T dose.
I would want to self administer, at home. 2x/wk (so 1/2 your total dose each time) will make you feel better - less peaks and valleys.[/quote]
I discussed HCG with the TRT clinic for the very reason of having kids in the future, and they told me that they have personally done studies on running guys with and without HCG while on TRT - said there was little to no evidence to support running HCG while on TRT. Once again, that’s just what they said. I’ve not been able to find supporting evidence one way or another.
Regarding an AI - still have mixed opinions about using one long term. Seems that you can have sides from long term use on those as well. What exactly does “RC” mean???
I would love to self administer at home, as it is a huge time consumer to drive to the clinic every week. So far have not found any docs that will guarantee that they will write a script. Don’t really feel like setting up an appt, waiting at the office, more blood work, etc, paying for all the above, only for some doc to say that they will only administer in office. Really need to find somebody in the Dallas / Ft. Worth, TX area that will do that.
WTF!!! Just got my labs back…my test levels have crashed!
Current results:
Total Test: 493 ng/dL
SHBG: 30.2 nmol/L
Free Test: 10.99 ng/dL
Estradiol: 38.2 pg/mL
So in summary: Total test dropped 270, free test dropped 4.16, SHGB dropped 11.3, and E2 went up 3.4.
I have felt like shit this past week, and the labs confirm this. They have now upped my dosage to 170 mg/wk and have suggested I start on DIM as an option before prescribing Arimidex. They have no idea why this happened and stated that this sometimes happens. I am not amused at this point.
I’m in my 50s and think it a little humorous at the approach many off you take. Shopping around for Docs that will help improve your muscle gains. Think long-term health and not short-term pretty boy muscles. Jmo.
Not every one needs to come and cry on the forum to get medical help. His levels are Low and need to be treated, whether one goes to the gym or no is irrelevant.
I’m 54. I entered into this life-long treatment because I was suffering from all the typical low T symptoms. I was also already going to the gym regularly. Now that I feel better, and I’m seeing unprecedented gains in the gym, my focus has shifted a little from just feeling better to also looking better. What’s wrong with that?
This forum is mostly regular guys needing to restore vitality. Gaining muscle is good because muscle wasting is a bad thing. A few body builder guys come here with different objectives. There is another forum on this site that caters to body builders and their steroid use.
Please create your own thread if anything here can be helpful for you.
The problem with the docs is that it is very difficult to find one who is not an idiot when it comes to dealing with mens’ hormonal health. So “shopping around” is needed and a difficult process, worse in some countries than others.