mattd - yeah, the 15s are no fun, especially if you’re used to higher reps. The modifications you made to the program are really interesting. Some of the posts on the thinkmuscle board refer to this, actually. Haycock said that it might even work better, but for the sake of simplicity, he went with 15s, 10s, 5s, and negs. While not as good, if he made it too complicated, he felt people might not follow the program.
I do not, however, remember offhand if each micro-cylce was 1 week, or if he kept it at two. I'm assuming one, otherwise the program would be more than 12 weeks long. I'm curious, though...did you pre-test maxes for all of those rep schemes? That seems like it would take a little while, if you wanted rest between. I think you'll have good success, keep us posted. Thanks again.
Glad to see people discussing HST openly and honestly. I would encourage people not to get stuck on sets and reps, but instead focus on what is required for muscle growth, namely microtrauma and sufficient dietary building blocks. The sets and reps that you chose to use will have to accomodate certain principles of muscle hypertrophy, namely, specific adaptation to implied demands (SAID), progressive loading, tissue microtrauma, frequency of the stimulus. People tend to think that the tissue is somehow aware of how many sets and reps you do. This isn’t really the case. Your muscle will only respond to the amount of trauma caused to it on that particular day, given its level of conditioning and nutritional state at the time.
Anyway, I have put up a more detailed article outlining HST at www.hypertrophy-specific.com Please read it first, then come back to clarify rather than reading only what people post, or what you have heard through the grape vine.
HST does not conflict with ANY training principle in existance that is a “true” principle of muscle cell hypertrophy. Many of these principles have been stumbled upon by training enthusiasts throughout the years, as they have sought the ideal training formula. These things that they have found to work will not suddenly not work, just because modern research has uncovered the mechanisms of muscle growth. Research will only serve to explain “why” those things that we’ve thought worked, work. HST is the current evolution of training for the purposes of hypertrophy, and hypertrophy only. It is not simply a “new” idea. It is the current idea based on what we’ve learned over the years both in the gym, and now in the lab.
First off hey to Brian (looks like the teacher is checking up on us).
Trev, as to my loading plan I based it on past personal bests form previous training logs. Secondly, I’ll be trying to past those bests by my last week of 5’s. So, and example: Sqauts wk of 15’s 1)115; 2)125; 3)135 wk of 12’s 1)125; 2)135; 3)145 etc. I should peak with a set of 5 at 195lbs in the 6th wk. I know its not true HST but there is the principle not every body adapts to the same training the same way. My approach may not work but, it is a learning process.
Trev, I also want to say thanks for starting this thread. My biggest challenge has always been follow through and I’m already feeling more accountable for my progress. Hell, I’m even planning a follow up cycle to this one. I’m already finding the full body approach a little long so next I’ll try a split, either 2 a day 3x a week or 6x a week alternating upper lower.
First off, thanks for commenting, Bryan. Your feedback means a lot. Thank you for this program and, more importanly, for presenting us with research showing WHY it works. It really does help.
Now, in regard to some of the comments, I agree that people tend to get a little caught up in the number of reps; I suppose it doesn't matter as long as it serves it's purposes. 15s will work as well as 16s, assuming that all other criteria are met.
With respect to that idea, mattd, further rereading your intented changes to the basic HST outline in addition to the idea of wave-loading, I think you'll make great gains. Looking at it now, only having one week of a particular rep scheme seems very appealing, and I think I may incorporate it into the program at one point.
You mention possibly doing a split routine because your whole body takes too long; I had a similar experience during my first two workouts of my first mesocylce. You may want to consider setting up your program so that you do the workout in a circuit. When I switched to this, I cut my total time down quite a bit. I can get two circuits of 10s done in about 50 minutes (I do 16 movements) if I hustle and don't dilly dally a lot. Just something to consider, that way you don't have to resort to 2 a days, or 6/per week.
In response to thanking me for starting the thread, please don't. Obviously you're very welcome, but I am just thankful that the thread is a success, and I hope it helps everyone as much as it's helping me.
Again, thank you to Bryan for contributing, and everyone else for keeping this going.
I’ve decided to do weekly reps adjustments (15, 12,10,8,5,5 neg) and here is my worlout in the order i will do it :
Calf raises on leg press X2
Tibialis on leg press X2
Squats X2
SLDL X2
Incline bench press X2
Cable row X2
Military press X1
Barbell biceps curl X1
Barbell triceps extension X1
Abs on pulley with rope X1
Legs are my priority, so they’re getting more volume.
In each week second workout i was thinking of changing some exercices ( squats to barbell hakc squats, incline bench to flat bench, the row to pull down).
What do you think ? Is the volume ok? It’s 16 sets per day. Would you change anything? Thanks
restless, your routine seems great, 16 isn’t too much, especially since you’re only hitting most upper body parts once. I think the volume is just fine. For the military press, I’m assuming you’re using a barbell? I generally recommend dbs, because I seem to get a much great contraction; I’m sure you’ve experimented, though, so you know what’s best for you.
As far as switching exercises on a weekly basis, it seems to make sense, as you're only doing one week of each 15s, 12s, etc. Just make sure you know all your maxes before hand. Hope this helps, and good luck.
I finished my second day of tens earlier today. I had a really great workout, it took me a little longer than I would have liked. My second set (for those exercises I do two sets for) is going better than the last time I did my tens. It must be the reduced volume.
I'm cutting up pretty nicely, thinking about doing two weeks of Mag-10 during the second week of 5s and first of negs. I'm assuming I'll see some nice growth. Does one capful 2x per day sound good to those who've used it? I'm pretty light (170 at 8%bf, 5'7.5"..was 160 at 9.3% before my first HST cycle) so I think a higher dosage might be a waste. What do you think?
restless - you’re routine looks great. I think that the volume is perfect. As a side note, I’ve stopped my HST routine. Finished 5 weeks, but I listened to my body and I’ve decided to go back to a 4 day split (2 lower, 2 uppper). I will try HST again, but I plan to change things up a bit. I like the idea of 15,12,10,8,5,neg and doing a 6 week cycle. Maybe that will hold on to my interest a little longer. Good luck to all continuing with HST.
Yesterday o was finding my 15 maxes, and it was a lot harder than i thought i would be, 15 reps maximal squats?? That was though. It took me almost 2 hours to find all of them, including the substitute exercices. I’ve used one of those calculators to find all my other maxes and tomorow i’m going to confirm my 8’s in the gym and if they’re off adjust things acordingly, but it seems pretty acurate to me.
After this i’m gonna take 9 days off and then i start.
Jason, sorry to hear you’re coming off HST. I would have recommended staying on for about 7 weeks…I put on 4 pounds of muscle in the two week period of the second 5s, first negs. The second week of negs only 1 pound. Compared to the 2-3 I had gained in the beginning of the cycle (first five weeks), I would have to say that growth definately takes place towards the end. But anyway, I hope you do well on the 4-day split. Good luck, brother.
restless, I had a hard time the first time I determined my maxes for the 15s...I came so close to puking I stayed near a garbage can for 10 minutes until I was sure it wasn't going to happen. Second time wasn't as bad, though. Good luck with your routine. Thanks guys.
I have a few reasons for not sticking with a whole macrocycle of HST. In general, the reasons are more psychological than physiological. First off, I was beginning to get a little burned out from doing the same routine 3x a week. My solution to the future will be to have 2 different alternating workouts with a different exercise for each muscle group. Therefore each microcylce, I will do workout A 3 times and workout B 3 times. That will keep me more motivated. Secondly, I’m in the midst of a job change/search. My hours have been reduced to part time and I have more time to train. I also have a desire to train and I wanted to maximize that oppurtunity. I will save HST for times in my life that I need a low total volume program that does not take much time. I realize that I’m selling the program short by not going through the second week of 5s and then the negs, but I’ve got years of training to try this again. It just wasn’t the right program for me right now. It may be the right program for me at another time. I still love hearing all the feedback, both good and bad about any program and await more information from this thread.
To jason N.- The ideia of weekly rep adjustment is from Brian himself, it’s in the HST site. He said the original ideia was this but for the sake of simplicity he chose the 2 weeks thing. It just makes a lot more sense to me. First, you’re using maximum loads once a week instead of every other week. Second, you only have to make 3 decrements instead of 6. Third, it will keep me more motivated because it’s more interesting. Maybe next time you give this a try you should do it this way.
To Trev- Did you find all your maxes or used a calculator? I was in the gim today and i experimented with the values the calculator gaveme for lower reps, and i could do one more rep with most than i was suposed to,. I think the problem is as i haven’t trained in the 15 rep range in 4 months my body is weaker in this range than it is in the lower reps.
Tomorow i’m gonna check some more of this suposed maxes and im taking 9 days off. Please keep this thread going so we can discuss more.
Rep changes every week instead of every 2 weeks is a “major” change in the program. In an 8 week cycle you’re eliminating 4 weeks of relatively easy training (the 1st week of each rep change) and replacing it with more intense training working closer to your rep maxs. How could this be just an optional method, when it changes the intensity of the program so significantly?
“HST does not conflict with ANY training >principle in existance that is a “true” >principle of muscle cell hypertrophy.”
“Is that really true Bryan?”
Yes, it's true.
If any newly discovered mechanism by which muscle cells hypertrophy were discovered that domenstrated that our previous understanding of the hypertrophic process was in error, HST would change in order to conform with the new information.
I’ve fininshed my first week of 15’s and decided I was a little ambitious in my weight increase projections. I’m going to revise this by repeating these numbers with my week of 12’s and then continue with my plan of wave loading. I’m still not a fan of high rep training but, now I can see the value of this type of conditioning as it has wiped me out. I could not complete two sets of all my selected exercises this week. Since I’m going to repeat my weights next week I’ll raise the intensity by completing all sets. I switched from straight sets to a circut style as Trev suggested and this did speed up my workout but it still feels long obviously due to all the high reps.
I look forward to others continued posts to see how all are doing and to get more insight and ideas in HST as well as other types of training. Good Health.
To restless - yes, I predetermined all my maxes prior to starting a cycle. I tested them, rather than using a calculator. I hadn’t working in a high rep range for a while, so I didn’t want to overestimate anything. It was a good thing I did, as well.
To Steve -- I agree, that is a fairly major change in the program, but I think maybe for the better. Working to failure only once per week still isn't all that much. I think, perhaps, that if you were going to use HST this way, it might be a better idea to use larger increments. Say 10 lbs per workout, rather than 5. In that case, you'd still start at roughly the same spot.
I finished my first week of tens today. The movements I'm using that differ from my last cycle finally seem to have cemented, and I'm really feeling strong in all of them, and I'm confident I'll see good growth come out of this cycle. I'm going to start a mag-10 cycle sometime next week, so if anyone is wondering how it works during HST, I'm ya guinea pig =). How's everyone else doing? Thanks guys.
Yes, i am making larger increments, 11 pounds on big lifts, 7 on medium lifts, and 5 on the small ones. If i feel the intensity is to high on the lighter weights i will cut back a little.
About training to failure, i was under the impression that since you’re suposed to get stromger every week this would end up not hapening, am i wrong? Wount those maximal loads end up being lighter?