Trev

Training Bodybuilding
1

Hey all. Just wanted to start a new thread for those of us using HST to discuss our exercises, info, progress, results, etc. Also, I figure this will be a good medium for people who have questions to get some answers. I think there are enough of us using this program so that this post isn’t completely out of place on this board.

In any event, I’m currently in my second mesocycle of HST, almost finished with my first week of 15s. I’m very pleaser with the program so far–on my last cycle, I was on a very hypocaloric diet through most of it, and still gained 6 pounds of lean mass, while I was losing body fat. I’ve listen my current movements below, in the order I do them.

  1. Seated Calf Raise
  2. Leg Extension
  3. Stiff Leg Dead Lift
  4. Flat Bench Press
  5. Pull Over
  6. Weighted Dip
  7. Weighted Pullup (alternating grips)
  8. Overhead Press
  9. Lateral Raise
  10. Spider Curl
  11. Lying Tricep Ext.
  12. Shrug
  13. Mid-Incline Hammer Curl
  14. Close Grip Bench Press
  15. Rotary Torso
  16. Med-X Ab Crunch

Now, I do this as a circuit, running from one machine to the next with no rest. I do the circuit twice, and as you can see I train opposing body parts as often as possible; that way I let each body part get a lot of rest in between identical movements. The basic reason is that I don’t have to rest, so it gets me through the workout faster; usually takes about an hour. 10s, 5s, and negs are shorter, obviously. Additionally, the circuit type training keeps the heart rate up, so I feel less of a need for cardio. (HAAAAATE CARDIO.) Staying away from squats for a bit because my knees have been hurting (bad knee history, anyway), so leg extensions, while a poor replacement, will have to do as they seem to hurt the least.

Anyway, let me know what you think of my routine, and please share yours. Thanks, guys. --Trev

2

Trev, are you doing this cycle three times per week?

3

The idea of eliminating squats altogether for an extended period of time makes me really nervous. Why not plug in any variety of the squat for leg extensions on 1-2 workouts of each week?

4

Avoids - I can’t speak for Trev, but my routine (explained below) is followed 3 times a week. That is the basis of HST - 3 full body workouts with progressive increases in weight each time. A quick synopsis is available at hypertrophy-specific.com…Trev - I’m glad you got this thing started. I used to keep current by lurking on the thinkmuscle board, but it is getting pretty busy and I’d rather know one board well then spread myself thin over a couple of different ones. Currently I’m on my first macrocycle of HST, finishing my second week of 10s. I’m not sure what I think yet. I think that I will really have to evaluate my progress when my 8 weeks are over. I also think that I need to give this program a try when I’m not hypocaloric. Routine is as follows: 10-15 min cardio warm-up, 10 min lower body stretch, 5 min upper body stretch and then to the exercises:1)squats 2)one arm db snatches 3)leg press calf raises 4)hyperextensions 5)hammer strength incline press 6)lat pd, about to switch to chins 7)behind neck press 8)nautilus machine row 9)dips 10)incline sit-ups 11)db curls 12)nautilus machine crunch. Everything is done for 1 work set. I do several warm-up sets with squats and few for the snatches and calf raises, but usually jump right into the others. This will change when I move to the 5s and I will likely incorporate a warm-up set for everything.

5

You have too many exercises, even for HST. (and you do this circuit twice!) I stick with one set per, unless my university gym isn’t crowded in which case I add an extra set for the big lifts. I think you’re way overdoing it bud, 3 exercises that work triceps?! (if you include bench) That’s 6 sets for triceps per workout. One of the main ideas of HST is reduced volume, increased frequency. 32 sets is a lot. Just my thoughts.

6

HST totally goes against everything I believe about training, recovery, and hypertrophy. That’s why I’ve decided to give it a try. I must admit after reading Brian Haycock’s theories, I was definately intrigued. If it works, I’ll be happy and have some new things to think about cocerning my training philosophy. If it does’nt and I begin to feel overtrained then at least I can say I gave it a try before I bashed it. While I’m definately an opinionated person, I also try to be open minded about new ideas. I just started the program this week. If this thread keeps up I will post my results.

7

Just got back from the gym and finished my 5th workout in the 10s microcycle. These last workouts in each microcyle are pretty brutal, especially with the higher reps. I’m definately looking forward to the 5s and Negs, because I’m ready to slow things down a little and push the heavy weights.

8

Hey, glad I got so many responses. To answer a few concerns, first. Yes, I’m doing this three times per week. Also, yeah, the volume seems like a lot, to be honest. The second time I do the circuit, it just out and out sucks. What i did on my last cycle was 2 circuits the first week, and then cut it back to one for the second week, since the weight is heavier. I guess I left that out; sorry.

I’ve been thinking though, that rather than doing that, I’ll just do a second cylce with only compound movements. It’s hard without squats in there, but I’ll have to deal. To adress that point–the reason I’m not doing them now if because I’m having knee problems. The gym I work/train at doesn’t have a squat rack. We’ve got a smith machine, and I was using that for a while, but it just started to hurt. I did leg presses last HST mesocycle, so I wanted something different.

Jason, your routine seems great. I was doing some of your previous movements last cylce, but I switched them for certain specific reasons. For example, I now do a pull over as one of my back movements because it also works the pec minor (at the top part of the movement) and I’m trying to develop that to enhance chest size–an idea I stole from the Pop Out Muscles article. I forget which issue it is, though.

As for hitting certain muscle too many times, I agree to some extent, which is why, as mentioned above, I may just do a second cycle of compound movements for upper, but stick with the SLDL and leg extensions for lower. Overall it seems to be working for me, so far.

I just finished my first week of fifteens, and I got a great pump…only good thing about 15s, I think. Plus all that science stuff about preparing tendons. It took me a while to get through it all today; as I’m looking at my chart from last cycle, I had 13 movements during my 15s, and then added 3 more (2 during 10s, 1 during 5s) so the volume is too much. Ditched out on cardio today to give myself a rest.

I’m glad everyone is enjoying the thread, please keep posting. Thanks again, guys.

9

Trev, good idea starting this thread. I had exactly the same thought, but you beat me to it, bud!

Anyway, I don't have time to go into detail right now, but I'm 3/4 of the way through my first marcocycle, having just finished 5s. I have to say that I'm less than impressed with the results so far. But I'll post in detail in a couple of days, along with some tips for making changes that might improve some aspects of the program. For now, though, I'd like to ask everyone who responds to this thread to give a little of their backgrounds. Specifically, what program were you doing before you started HST, how many years of lifting do you have under your belt, how old are you, and do you consider yourself a beginner, intermediate or advanced lifter? I think that having this information will go a long way towards sorting out what are going to be some very conflicting reports about this training program.

10

Is what you’re doing on machines or with free weights? You didn’t mention that in your original post. It looks like machines to me. Is this correct?

Have you tried the barbell hack squat as outlined in one of the workouts provided on T-Mag? Might help. How about deadlifts? My first inclination after perusing your workout, was to drop one of the tricep exercises and concentrate more on the close-grip bench press. Just a thought.

11

Sorry, just saw that you are indeed, using machines.

12

Hey again. Patricia, I’m using a combination of free weights and machines. I’ll be more specific: plate-loading Nautilus calf raise, Med-X Leg extension, Barbell SLDL, Barbell flat bench, Nautilus Nitro pullover, weighted dip (db or plate, depending on weight) weighted pull-up (same), overhead db press, low pulley/cable side raises on Nautilus crossover, barbell spider curl, lying db tricep extension, barbell shrug(behind back), mid incline db hammer curls, barbell close grip flat bench, Med-X rotary torso, Med-X crunch. Using free weights as often as I can, but again, I train in one of “those” gyms, so I have to make due with what we have.

To answer to question about my lifting background; I am 19 (turning 20 next week) and I have been lifting since the seventh grade; mostly sport specific until I was roughly 16. I was doing a volume based program for football. Around 17, I did BFL, finished and moved on to bigger and better things. After that, I moved onto Super Slow, which I did for roughly a year, then straight HIT for a while. Just prior to HST I was on the Stacic Contraction program, by Pete Cisco. Not a lot of growth there, but I built a lot of strength. Hope this gives a clearer picture of my history. Thanks again for contributing guys, and keep this going.

13

Okay, here’s a bit more of my specifics:

On his website, Brian Haycock says something to the effect that HST is supposed to "maximize" hypertrophy for any given diet. I take this to mean that you could keep the same diet, change exercise programs from whatever you're on currently to HST, and make gains. Brian also recommends upping your carb intake and eating app.500 cals extra/day, especially during the 15s and 10s phases of the program.

Well, I did that. The end result was that after completing the two weeks of 15s I had gained almost 3 pounds - of fat! So during the 10s I cut back a little and took the weight back off. However, I lost a bit of muscle along the way. Now having completed the 5s, I'm back at the same weight that I started, but with a less optimal fat-to-LBM ratio.

If you think about it, these results only make sense. I'm doing the basic program lifted almost exactly as-is from the HST site. So squats, leg curls, pullups, bench presses, calf raises, DB shoulder press. Some forearm and ab work after (just one set of each - and not according to HST principles). Although it's true that the max 15s workout is pretty tough, the first 3-4 workouts are really easy. So if you're eating more cals and not really taxing yourself, it only stands to reason that you're going to put on some flab. (Wish I'd thought about this before I did it, though... ;-( )

So for anyone trying the program, I recommend keeping your calories the same through the easy weeks, and only upping them during the tough weeks - at least for the 15s and 10s. I think that this will yield better LBM results in the long run.

However, I don't want to give the impression that I think HST is worthless. Far from it. I have the feeling that the people who will benefit the most from this program are ones who are currently over-trained. I think that it would provide an excellent one-month (15s and 10s) recovery cycle for someone who's burnt out, and there's no getting around the fact that the first two phases give you a nice whole-body workout in about 30 minutes. (Once you start going heavier you need more warm-up sets, thus increasing the time.) So it's great for people who want to save time. Also, I have gotten stronger on the program - despite losing LBM. Now if someone could explain to me how this could happen, I'd be obliged!

14

Char-dawg, your results are fairly typical of what some people are saying on the Thinkmuscle message board. I first tried HST at the end (laste two weeks) of a bulking phase, then just stayed on it while I began cutting. Haycock himself addresses some of the finer points of diet, etc, on the message boards, as well. From having read those awhile back, I believe he originally recommends that you keep diet the same throughout the first weeks of the program, and then change your macronutrient ratios during the 5s, so that you’re taking in more protein, and less carbs.

Personally, I think it’s a fairly individual aspect of the program. I feel like I’m getting leaner during my 15s, because of the amount of work–despite the fact that I’m not putting out maximum effort until the last workout. However, I should not that it never seems “easy.” Keep in mind that I do two sets (in a circuit fashion) so that I am actually doing twice as many reps, if you’re only doing one. Regardless of that, however, I do not think that any of the workouts are ever particualrly easy: in point of fact, most of them have seemed very difficult for me, though for different reasons. For example, after a week of Strategic Deconditioning, which followed two weeks of 5 rep negatives…going back to 15 reps, despite the fact that the weight is relatively light, is not what I would call “easy.” Fifteen reps is a lot at any given time, if you generally do not work within that rep scheme. The first week of 10s seems easier than the first week of 15s, but the second week is hard throught. Both week of 5s seem like like of a drain on energy and they take less time, but they leave me feeling like I was just beaten–brutally. Again, though, that is just me; and I feel that it’s highly individualized. Your body works different than mine, and certain things may be easier for you. I don’t know the specifics of your program regarding the incement of weight increase, but one suggestion would be to start with heavier weight and use smaller increments; that seems to me like it would make things more difficult in the earlier cycles.

That in mind, I address the statement you made about losing LBM and getting stronger. Keep in mind that the ultimate goal of the 15s--and to some extent the 10s--is prepare the tendons and connective tissue for the stress that will be undergone while lifting much greater poundages. So, if you traditionally work within a low-count rep scheme, it is plausible that you could have had ailing or strained tendons or connective tissue, which may have made weight feel heavier to lift than it really was. Assuming that this is true, it is therefore possible that after having allowed those tissues time to recover and strengthen during the 15s and 10s would then enable you fully utilize the strength of the corresponding mucles without being inhibited by whatever restriction that may have formerly been placed on you. Please, again, that is just speculation and I do not know your program or previous history well enough to even claim it a likely guess, but it is a possibility.

I would read some of Haycocks responses to “diet” or “fat gain” posts on the thinkmuscle.com board for more insight. I have not experienced any fat gain personally, but others on THIS site may have so we’ll have to see. I’m sorry for the long post, and I hope any of this helped at all, or at least was relevant. Thanks again, everyone.

15

This HST is very interesting. For those of you that weren’t working out in the 80’s this type of program was touted as a beginner’s program. This is how I originally worked out - full body 3x/week with one or two sets maximum per exercise/bodypart. Darden (a nautilus follower) made a living writing dozens of books based on workouts like HST. I’ve read what’s on that web site and I can’t figure out how it is any different from Darden’s original bodybuilding programs. I have several of his old books in front of me and the workouts are pretty much identical. But like any type of training, I’m sure it COULD work for a few weeks, possibly even 8 weeks.

16

Darren, I agree that there are some similarities between HST and the original HIT programs put forth by Arthur Jones and Ellington Darden, however there are some very crucial differences. I’ll just comment on the main difference between the theories.

HIT operates on the principle of working to failure each and every workout. Failuire, says Jones, is the only true way to be sure that you have caused a muscle to work past it’s previous capacity and therefore caused it to respond to the stimulus by growing. With HST, you do not work to failure until the last workout of each microcylce, or once every two weeks.

The reason for this is that Haycock regards “overtraining” as a neuological phenomanon. Therefore, even though the volume and frequency are both relatively high, you are not draining your recovery ability by going to to failure. Haycock has compelling research which puts forth that in order to grow, it is only necessary to work a muscle hard enough to stimulate growth, rather than to absolute failure. The idea of strategic deconditioning also plays a bit of a role in this respect. By taking a week off completely, you are denying your any stimulu at all, just when it has become truly accustomed to lifting weight in ever-increasing poundage. When you go back to it, at higher reps than where you left off, your body will be “untrained,” so to speak; in this condition, it is more primed for growth.

I know I am not doing the program much justice here…I suggest you go back and reread ALL of the HST literature; as it is, I do not feel that there is as much similarity between the Jones/Darden programs and the newer HST stuff as you believe. You’ll see more differences as you go further into it.

17

Char-dawg, I’m not sure that Bryan has ever recommended that people increase carbs to 500g/day across the board. He did spell out a sample diet to someone on the forum, but used the starting weight of 220lbs and total calories of 3600 per day. He does say that you should keep carbs around 40-50% during the 15s to aid in lactic acid production and then drop them as the reps decrease and the weight goes up if you are trying to lean out. If your are trying to gain, then they should be kept higher. Of course I don’t know how much you weigh, so 500g could be right if you weigh 220lbs. If you can direct me to where he says this, I would be interested though.

During my first cycle, I ate Massive Eating style and gained about 13lbs with a little fat gain(maybe 4lbs). During my second cycle, I ate just above maintenance for the 15s at maintenance for the first week of 10s and then slightly below for the second week of 10s and 5s. I gained 3.5lbs and lost about 1.5% of BF while gaining strength. I am just about to start my third cycle with the 10s (to keep the weights heavy enough to preserve LBM while hypocaloric) and a 500-700 calorie defecit (food and cardio) to lean out for the summer. I’m farily sure that HST will allow me to keep most of the gains I have made from the first 2 cycles.

Here are my results from the second cycle

Weight +3.5lbs

BF -1.5%

Chest +1”

Shoulders +0.5”

L bicep +0.25"

R bicep +0.375"

Umbilical +/- 0

Iliac +0.25"

Hip +0.5"

L quad +1.25"

R quad +1.5"

L calf +0.5"

R calf +0.5"

Oh, I’m 31, have trained off and on (more off than on) since 16. Have been consistent for Just over 2 years using HIT style abreviated workouts before the gains stopped. I found HST in October last year and have used it since. It works very well for me.

Steve

18

25 years old, lifting 8 years, before HST is used Staley Convergent Phase Training, I like the program but I have lost size and strength, attributed to CKD @ 12 kcal/lb.

For the second mesocycle are you:
A) Deconditioning for a week then hitting the 15s or B) Choosing between deconditioning and skipping 15s or no decondition at all?

19

Where is the HST program information? I am curious about it now but I could not find anything but 3 articles and none of them specific enough to explain the programs in depth?

20

To be honest, I am extremely skeptical of this program with respect to hypertrophy. It seems like the main support for this program is the fact that a study has shown that 1 set yields the same STRENGTH gains as 3 sets. While that study may be important for strength training, I am at a loss to understand it applicability for hypertrophy. My understanding is that strength programs and hypertrophy programs have some distinct differences.

I am not trying to disparage Bryan or his work, and I would love to have some of the regulars on this board provide information to change my impression of the program (notice, I said regulars, not those who seem to appear miraculously when there is discussion of one particular topic). In the interim, I will continue to be fairly skeptical.