Trayvon Martin Pt. 3.. The Legacy Pt. 2

audiogarden1 · July 24, 2013, 6:54pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
X, I’ll ask the same question I asked DN. Have you or do you know someone that has not been promoted because of their skin color? Has it happened in the last 20 years?[/quote]

I seriously doubt that unless someone wanted to end up in court that you would hear some manager literally make that statement of racism in public.

This is one aspect one would have to understand to answer the question you asked.

Racism today must be hidden because of the laws in effect. Do you first think that this means that racism literally exists less or that it is more subverted?[/quote]

So since you cant provide statistical evidence, it is unknown and you’re talking out of your ass.

Or does that only work when you do it?

countingbeans · July 24, 2013, 6:55pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Racism today must be hidden because of the laws in effect. Do you first think that this means that racism literally exists less or that it is more subverted?[/quote]

I’m really trying to not make assumptions about your point, but to be honest this post is coming off as: white people are automatically racist, until they prove it, otherwise, even if they show zero signs of being racist, they are just hiding it.

I really hope I’m just tired and reading into this wrong. Please clarify.

conservativedog · July 24, 2013, 7:00pm

!

Professor_X · July 24, 2013, 7:02pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Racism today must be hidden because of the laws in effect. Do you first think that this means that racism literally exists less or that it is more subverted?[/quote]

I’m really trying to not make assumptions about your point, but to be honest this post is coming off as: white people are automatically racist, until they prove it, otherwise, even if they show zero signs of being racist, they are just hiding it.

I really hope I’m just tired and reading into this wrong. Please clarify. [/quote]

Hmm, it was literally argued for pages just now that WHITES ARE AT MORE RISK OF RACIAL ATTACK THAN BLACKS IN CERTAIN AREAS…and you didn’t raise a voice then when no stats exist supporting this.

I do find that strange seeing as it would mirror the idea that since it is not known you think it does not exist.

Wouldn’t this question the perspective of the viewer?

I asked very blatantly if you think racism does not exist now because of the laws against it in the work place or if it is more subversive.

Any answer for that?

countingbeans · July 24, 2013, 7:08pm

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

If I told you would you believe me?[/quote]

Depends.

If I told you one of our hottest clients right now is a black man in his 40’s, who is not only completely taking over the residential R/E in the area, also just came out of a 4 year audit with zero adjustments, would you believe me?

Lol, yeah, that’s it for sure. I could never understand… Because I’m white right? SO it is cool for you to judge me based on my skin color?

Assumptive conjecture.

You don’t understand the bare bone basics of politics or American civics, based on this statement. Nor could you prove any of the opposition have a damn thing to do with his skin color. You’ll assume that is it, ignoring his shitty progressive ideas and language though.

Myosin · July 24, 2013, 7:10pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Myosin wrote:
The thread has predictably turned into a group of guys who happen to be in the majority trying to show how they are not bias and if they are they have good reason to be and thus justify their bias with stats and random personal experiences. [/quote]

Both sides are doing as you describe here. Telling you don’t notice that.

Awful telling, lol. Because yes, all white people have a hive mind super whitey power mind connection were we can all feel and think the same way at all times. And you just so happen to know it is the “all hail whitey, he is king” thought that connects all white minds in the world.

Good job here man, just great.

Otherwise known as: you have to play the game to change the game.

And your post doesn’t even accomplish what you are deriding others for…

How… telling…

[quote]
Man, I really hope that does not happen, things are pretty cool as they are, no need to share more of this beautiful skyway.[/quote]

lol at stereotyping after complaining about other’s doing it. Twice now. [/quote]

I should thank you for the your post breakdown. Your replies reinforce and display many of the issues regarding this subjuct. I am not trying to change anyone’s opinion, I am sure you have made up your mind and have strong thoughts and feelings about it. Just trying to raise awareness of a possible alternative experience some people may have, no matter how unpopular it may be to do so. There are issues on all sides, both on a personal and societal level. I am not debating personal wealth, crime stats, or fashion. I am trying to bring to the forefront that it is important to recognize and acknowledge other people’s experiences no matter how uncomfortable it is for you personally and this is for all sides.

This topic makes all sides very unconfortable and naturally, we seek comfort. Whatever gives you that: denial, avoidance, mock, pointing at others, so be it. We all deny any sort of privilege we may have in a failed attempt to play the underdog.

How many of us “feel” the experiences of having male privilege?

We all know what is said in locker rooms etc where it is a male only audience.

Again, I am not arguing with you or anyone else. Agree or disagree, I just ask do not discount.

thehebrewhero · July 24, 2013, 7:17pm

[quote]Myosin wrote:
Prof X & Ninja…while I don’t agree with you guys all the time when it comes to other topics posted on the site, I appreciate you fighting the good fight here but just give up.

The thread has predictably turned into a group of guys who happen to be in the majority trying to show how they are not bias and if they are they have good reason to be and thus justify their bias with stats and random personal experiences.

They either deny there is any issue of race (why change things when I am on top?) or offer solutions along the lines of: be more like me…dress like me, speak like me, enjoy the music and fashion I enjoy etc or why don’t you act like them (Asians, Jews etc) and everything will be okay. No offer of anyone actually recognizing the problem and taking personal steps to try to get activity involved to bridge the divide.

Two pilots are both flying the same direction. One at 35000 feet which is above the clouds and the other at 1000 feet underneath a storm.

Pilot #1: It sure is a beautiful day for flying.

Pilot #2: Man, I imagine it is up there. This storm is beating us around making it very challenging to fly straight and gain more altitude.

Pilot #1: I don’t know what you are taking about. Its sunny clear blue skies here.

Pilot #2: Okay, can you swing down here and help fly us out of this storm? Every route we take ends up in a serious down draft, keeping from breaking through the clouds.

Pilot #1: Hrmmm…what would I want to do that? No one helped me get up here. I got here on my own and you can to if you can figure out to fly like us. * Turns mic off…Man, I really hope that does not happen, things are pretty cool as they are, no need to share more of this beautiful skyway.[/quote]

Great anology also no one is claiming that everyone here is a card carrying member of the KKK but ignoring racial bias in America is like thinking the world is flat. I can understand defending your turf it sucks to think anything is wrong but ask any sociology proffesor at any college or university if racial bias has any influence in our judicial system, and economy and the overwhelming answer is yes. Tests and studies have proved it year after year.
When I took sociology in school we coverd it over and over… Examples like
1st Time ofenders blacks & minorities recieve longer stiffer jail sentences then whites
Crack cocain laws vs powder coke laws
Jobs applicant studies
Check out the LaKiesha study… We studied this when I was in school, but since many studies have proved the same thing… Its a quick read enjoy
http://old.post-gazette.com/lifestyle/20031125blacknames1125fnp2.asp

dmaddox · July 24, 2013, 7:21pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Yes, it is 20 years of change, but to think it is now a NON ISSUE is a little off.

AA was inacted in the 90’s in part because of this. Your perspective sees that time frame as enough to effectively change all of society to make it a nonissue…yet we see people using 20 year old Tupac pictures to show proof of “black thugs”.

Strange, no?[/quote]

PX, I have not beef to pick but lets look at it another way.

Also strange that 150 years since slavery it is still brought up as a way to show proof that the white man is still trying to keep down the black man.

Strange, no?
[/quote]

I am not sure what you even mean here. Civil Rights acts were not passed until the 60’s and the government showed proof of massive racism in the 90s to institute AA. Why would you or anyone else see things in terms of “150 years” with such recent issues?[/quote]

The slave trade is still brought up in current debates all the time when it was outlawed 150 years ago. 150 years is a lot farther back than the 20 year old Tupac argument.

Will there ever be a time that the black community will start looking forward to the Dream that Martin Luther King Jr wanted for his children and stop looking at the past?

"I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal.”

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Look at that last line. I look at someone for their character. I do not give a shit about the color of anyone’s skin. The Zimmerman trial can be summed up the complete opposite of that last line.

I want to sit down as brothers talking about life, and working through the past so we can move forward together.

countingbeans · July 24, 2013, 7:23pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Hmm, it was literally argued for pages just now that WHITES ARE AT MORE RISK OF RACIAL ATTACK THAN BLACKS IN CERTAIN AREAS…and you didn’t raise a voice then when no stats exist supporting this.
[/quote]

Because there are “lies, damn lies, and statistics”. Once people start arguing stats, many things can get twisted.

You were defending your position, I didn’t think I need to mention anything. And you aren’t policing the people on your side quite literally making up “facts” either. I’m trying to talk to you to hear your opinion, please dont’ assume my silence on an issue is agreement. It isn’t, and I’m not doing that with you.

The reason I spoke on this comment is because I (hopefully) am miss-perceiving what you said.

[quote]I do find that strange seeing as it would mirror the idea that since it is not known you think it does not exist.

Wouldn’t this question the perspective of the viewer?[/quote]

I’m missing what your getting at here.

[quote]I asked very blatantly if you think racism does not exist now because of the laws against it in the work place or if it is more subversive.

Any answer for that?

[/quote]

Of course, I know for a fact that racism still exists. I also know it is significantly better than it was even 10 years ago, and certainly when I was a kid. Apparently this makes me a denier to other people, but whatever.

So to answer your question: no I don’t think the laws just “drove racism underground”. I think people are moving forward and actually judging people based on the content of their character.

No shit isn’t perfect, but it certainly isn’t as bad as some in here believe.

Professor_X · July 24, 2013, 7:24pm

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

The slave trade is still brought up in current debates all the time when it was outlawed 150 years ago. 150 years is a lot farther back than the 20 year old Tupac argument.[/quote]

No one made that argument here at all so why mention it?

Uh, wow. I am not sure this even warrants a response.

You apparently know how all black people think or what they “look forward to”. I am in awe.

[quote]
Look at that last line. I look at someone for their character. I do not give a shit about the color of anyone’s skin. The Zimmerman trial can be summed up the complete opposite of that last line.[/quote]

If people are judging black men by sagging pants to be CRIMINALS base don that alone, they are not looking at character at all.

Really?

That would require understanding where your alternate is coming from…and you don’t seem to care much.

Maiden3_16 · July 24, 2013, 7:29pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

If people are judging black men by sagging pants to be CRIMINALS base don that alone, they are not looking at character at all.

[/quote]

Who is doing this?? PLEASE quote where someone said black men with sagging pants are criminals.

Professor_X · July 24, 2013, 7:34pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Because there are “lies, damn lies, and statistics”. Once people start arguing stats, many things can get twisted. [/quote]

They sure can…but to say that WHITES ARE AT MORE RISK…and then turn around and harp on black on black crime being the worst makes little sense, no?

[quote]

You were defending your position, I didn’t think I need to mention anything. And you aren’t policing the people on your side quite literally making up “facts” either. [/quote]

I am in debate for myself. I am not here to take up everyone or anyone else’s “side”.
I am responding to at least 5 different people at one time. I am not even reading everyone’s response here. I am doing 5 other things while typing this.

[[quote]

Of course, I know for a fact that racism still exists. I also know it is significantly better than it was even 10 years ago, and certainly when I was a kid. Apparently this makes me a denier to other people, but whatever.

So to answer your question: no I don’t think the laws just “drove racism underground”. I think people are moving forward and actually judging people based on the content of their character.

No shit isn’t perfect, but it certainly isn’t as bad as some in here believe. [/quote]

How bad do those people believe it is?

All I see is people telling others it is significant…and then white people saying it isn’t significant to them…which again brings us back to perspective and why some seem to think their own is more valid than someone else’s.

Look, there is no way the average white guy will ever know what the average dark skinned black guy experiences in a life time. I am literally having people ask if I ever experienced racism IN TEXAS as if it is hard to believe. They are writing as if white people see MORE racism in this country.

I am having trouble taking much of this seriously especially with the personal attacks at this point.

Professor_X · July 24, 2013, 7:33pm

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

If people are judging black men by sagging pants to be CRIMINALS base don that alone, they are not looking at character at all.

[/quote]

Who is doing this?? PLEASE quote where someone said black men with sagging pants are criminals.[/quote]

That isn’t what a THUG is?

I asked several times for the definition of thug and was given it…which involves CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. Have you changed the definition now?

jbpick86 · July 24, 2013, 7:35pm

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Myosin wrote:
Two pilots are both flying the same direction. One at 35000 feet which is above the clouds and the other at 1000 feet underneath a storm.

Pilot #1: It sure is a beautiful day for flying.

Pilot #2: Man, I imagine it is up there. This storm is beating us around making it very challenging to fly straight and gain more altitude.

Pilot #1: I don’t know what you are taking about. Its sunny clear blue skies here.

Pilot #2: Okay, can you swing down here and help fly us out of this storm? Every route we take ends up in a serious down draft, keeping from breaking through the clouds.

Pilot #1: Hrmmm…what would I want to do that? No one helped me get up here. I got here on my own and you can to if you can figure out to fly like us. * Turns mic off…Man, I really hope that does not happen, things are pretty cool as they are, no need to share more of this beautiful skyway.[/quote]

This implies blacks, themselves, cannot rise above, “The storm,” which is bull shit. There are thousands upon thousands of examples.

Guess this dude decided to straight jump out of that 747…[/quote]

I think a lot of people confuse elitism with racism. The haves are always going to step on the have nots. The only thing with that is if you are a white have not, you are not provided any special protections by the government so that makes it doubly difficult to improve you social standing.[/quote]

I agree, the haves will always step all over the have nots. [/quote]

Money is amoral. There are a lot of very generous rich people. I think the only reason you two believe this because you do not know any generous rich people, or the only rich people you remember are a@@holes.

What motorcycle riders do you guys see on the highway? The ones that are riding all crazy like. This is the small percentage of motorcycle owners. You never really remember the cautious riders only the crazy ones. This is the same with rich people. You only remember the a@@holes and not the generous givers.
[/quote]

I was just speaking in general. [/quote]

Not trying to be an a@@munch but generally rich people are more generous than stepping on the small people. Just saying.
[/quote]

No, a lot of rich people do give a lot to charity. Most of the time though, with the rich, any move involving money is very calculated. The only uber-rich person I know has been extraordinarily generous to my family, however, I still maintain that most people that have wealth, at some point in the accumulation of that wealth, have had to step on a few people on the way up. I actually cant think of a single person, who achieved and maintained wealth that didn’t have to do so at the expense of at least someone else.[/quote]

You couldnt be anymore wrong in your last statement. Unless you steal it or inherit it, wealth is more often than not(and dare I say always) at any level is acheived by offering a service that is more valuable than the money recieved for it.

If you are viewing ‘at the expense’ of someone else as possible winning in competition or squeezing as much of a resource out of something as posible you are being short sighted as that act only makes their good or service more valuable and thus offering a greater degree of service or value than they recieve.

Sorry the hijack, I just hate ‘rich bashin’. [/quote]

At the expense of someone else, I would include as the bigger company lowering prices of your goods so low temporarily that other companies cannot compete losing business and folding, you then bring your prices back to a reasonable level after eliminating the competition.

Producing goods in countries with extraordinarily cheap labor because those countries don’t care about employee well being.

Steve Jobs not giving five of the original people that helped create the Apple stock when they became a company, Wozniak felt bad so he let them have some of his.

Zuckerman and his famous exploits leaving a trail of people when creating facebook

Now to me, all this is just capitalism because the business world is a shark tank and the guys that can do it and make it, more power to them. But to pretend like they don’t have to be sharks to get ahead is not realistic. I am not rich bashing, just merely trying to see things as they are.

jbpick86 · July 24, 2013, 7:34pm