Trayvon Martin Pt. 2 'The Legacy'

Off Topic
801

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

And hebrewhero, what did White people do to you that you think everyone who disagrees with you is racist? Serious question.[/quote]

I dont hate white people. I am white. But as a white man with a black wife and 3 mixed kids which by anyones intial glance would just assume them black I get put in the unfortunate position of dealing with racisim frequently. All the time I hear white people say stupid shit about black people becuase they assume its “safe” to say it around me. When I show them my kids pictures or mention my famil status I get the same 2 stepin backtracking answers “oh well I didnt mean it like that” or “Im not racist thats not what I meant” I cant stand it and its bullshit… When people use terms like “those people” “they all do this” or my fav “oh thats how they talk” Its racist bullshit. In the realworld I confront people all the time on it so on here I shouldnt expect less as its just a micro-cosim of society. I respect all people of any color, ethnicty, religion, and style choice. [/quote]

Bro, like I said to H4M, I find that awesome you are married to a black woman! Haha, I plan on doing the same when I can find that special person. I understand what you’re saying about people trying to back track on their words. I have mixed cousins and I have had to put up with a little racism when we last visited them. It doesn’t bother me too much, but I understand your distaste.

802

Then you should fully understand, if you’re white, that not all white people are racist. Just because people you are around say disrespectful things, does not mean all white people say disrespectful things.

I’m sure you also know of black people who say disrespectful things of white people, I hope you correct them as well. It works both ways, both sides have parties who are guilty, and both sides the majority is ok. Yea, each side might take a jab now and again for joke’s sake, but its meant in jest. Just like Polish jokes will always be funny, even for Polish people. Some stereotypes are funny and exist for everyone those should honestly be free reign, because to be “fair” its free reign for every other culture/nationality/etc.

I honestly don’t believe many of the folks posting in this thread to be racist. And I say that having plenty of black friends, growing up with a black family as THE closest family to my father while he was in the military, and having almost dated two different black girls in highschool (one I didn’t because her parents didn’t want her dating a white guy, and the other we were about to go to college and decided to stay friends, but damn was she a sweetheart).

There are good people and bad people everywhere.

803

[quote]Professor X wrote:
…and for the record, I seriously doubt the cops would be called if five white guys were standing in your drive way looking they were going to a nearby party.

I am still perplexed at calling police before ever saying anything to them…and then acting amazed that they were upset.[/quote]

werent you complaining about zimmerman CALLING THE COPS AND NOT WAITING FOR THEM a few pages ago?

and now you are complaining because someone CALLED THE COPS AND WAITED FOR THEM?

any cop would tell you not to confront a group of men late at night on your own, regardless of clothes.

EDIT- let me change the tone- could you explain why your view changed?

804

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

However, X is failing to respect any opinion that differs from his own. And when he started bringing race back into it, we were already way off that.[/quote]

Uh, the entire thread is about race relations.

Also, I wasn’t the one who wrote that another viewpoint was IDIOTIC.

I already knew most of you would react like this…which is why is makes you look that much less “intellectual” when your reaction illustrates the point exactly.

If it is “IDIOTIC” to not call the cops, why would you state I am the one who refuses to see any other view point?

You are just here to attack me personally if you don’t also attack Ryan for the same.

Gee, so transparent.[/quote]

I stopped reading when i saw you throw the word “intellectual” out there again.

When it comes to X, if i see the words “intellect/intelligence” or “crayons” i automatically know its time to skip everything else.

805

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
It never was about if calling the police is a proper thing to do if people are loitering.
[/quote]

Here are some quotes from you that may contradict that^
Seems like that was the big jump off:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]installglass wrote:
I called the police.
[/quote]

LOL!!

I am amazed at the society that thinks this is the proper behavior as opposed to, “excuse me…that’s my driveway!”.

Wow.
[/quote]

And then

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Seriously, calling the cops because men are standing there?

Really?

You would do the same if they were white and wearing college sweaters? (You bringing race into it)

They responded that way (threatening to assault a police officer) BECAUSE YOU CALLED THE COPS. (Purely speculation and your opinion. Not factual whatsoever)

I would be pissed if someone called the fucking cops on me for standing (please see: loitering and trespassing) there also.[/quote]

More about the cop calling

[quote]Professor wrote:
You are justifying someone calling POLICE because people are STANDING THERE (again see: loitering and trespassing) GOING TO A NEAR BY HOUSE PARTY instead of just asking them to move?

Wow.[/quote]

More about how wrong it is to call the cops on loitering trespassers

[quote]Professor X wrote:

EDIT: added commentary for clarification
[/quote]

Who wants to bet this post wont be addressed?

806

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:
Arguing logically with DN is like sticking your dick in a plug, it’s shocking, painful and it’s not going to get you anywhere[/quote]

Oh, it’s you…

I’m glad you’re still lying here, with your mouth open, so I can shit in it.
[/quote]

I really enjoy your posting style…lots of swear words and descriptions of crude acts aiming for shock value to mask you’re slipping grip on reality and crippling asperger syndrome.

(insert generic X quote about playing with crayons)

807

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]Stiglitz wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]Stiglitz wrote:
" there is nothing more painful to me at this stage of my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start to think about robbery…and then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved "

Rev Jesse Jackson

…for real tho …[/quote]

You left out “… How humiliating.”. However, I bet it’s the fault of the white man in some way.[/quote]

Oops, sorry …

I guess the good reverend, paragon of racial equality and justice, isn’t above a little racial profiling himself … But everyone else has to be

Won’t even go into “Hymietown” [/quote]

I wasn’t really trying to correct you, only pointing out that he feels it’s humiliating to find comfort in being followed by whites. You’ve to wonder exactly what his perception of whites is for him to feel humiliated.[/quote]

I’d argue that speaks more on what he thinks of blacks than whites. He’s humiliated that he cant find comfort in knowing one of his own race is walking behind him.

808

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

Is it that hard to figure out?

It doesn’t matter what neighborhood watchman rules there are. His actions are governed by state law, by which he was exonerated. [/quote]

Oh, now the rules don’t matter? So are you saying that by letting Zimcunt walk scot free, the state law from now, allows other watchmen to take action against criminal activities that are taking place in their community without the help of the police? Watchmen are vigilantes now, uh? So because the 6 cunts let that fat fuck go, he was right to pull a gun on Trayvon Martin, because his power as a watchman superseded the police’s.

Oh, okay.
[/quote]

You are being dishonest or dumb.

State law is what governs us. Not Neighborhood Watchman law.

I can break all kinds of rules without breaking any laws.

Your prejudice is blinding you to reality. As usual.

So, Red Herrings or temper tantrums, which was this? Little of both?

809

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

And hebrewhero, what did White people do to you that you think everyone who disagrees with you is racist? Serious question.[/quote]

I dont hate white people. I am white. But as a white man with a black wife and 3 mixed kids which by anyones intial glance would just assume them black I get put in the unfortunate position of dealing with racisim frequently. All the time I hear white people say stupid shit about black people becuase they assume its “safe” to say it around me.

When I show them my kids pictures or mention my famil status I get the same 2 stepin backtracking answers “oh well I didnt mean it like that” or “Im not racist thats not what I meant” I cant stand it and its bullshit… When people use terms like “those people” “they all do this” or my fav “oh thats how they talk” Its racist bullshit. In the realworld I confront people all the time on it so on here I shouldnt expect less as its just a micro-cosim of society. I respect all people of any color, ethnicty, religion, and style choice. [/quote]

Good on you brother. Thats a challenge for sure, one that im (to a much lesser extent) familiar with as well due to my step mom being black. My dad remarried to a black woman and i have 2 younger black step brothers. However the dynamic is obviously WAY different for you since you are actually married and have the kids with a black woman.

Of course, certain people are still gonna label me racist around here for participating in this conversation and not siding with them.

810

Realizing this has become an amazingly sensitive topic (I’ve lost a lot of respect for various people I’m “friends” with on FB), I’m wondering how many people actually watched the entire trial and understand the amount of evidence that all seemed to support one side. If people are capable of ignoring for just a moment the media and race-baiters who seem to make a living out of sensationalizing this horrific event and inciting extreme emotions over a purely objective view of the law, you can go online and view full testimonies of :

  • the first cops at the scene
  • the lead detectives who oversaw various interviews personally as well as oversaw accumulation of all data
  • an eyewitness to a very one sided beat down
  • a forensic pathologist
  • a breakdown of the autopsy and complete breakdown of locations of bruising and injuries sustained by both parties (not the mortician who prepared the body at a later date, but the guy who analyzes bodies for the police immediately post incident)
  • GZ’s personal trainer who testified that he was horribly out of shape and incapable of throwing a punch
  • Law enforcement Dennis Root (who provided an amazingly detailed analysis of the entire series of events, I recommend this highly!)
  • and pretty much everyone else involved in any way

and yes, you can even get the information on TM’s being found with stolen items in school, his past drug history, drug residue found on him in school, and eventual suspension from his school which was the reason he was sent to Fla in the first place. For the record, despite what people like Martin Bashir are putting out there in their own videos, this information wasn’t even used in the trial. No one character assassinated TM. It is simply part of the standard process to gather as much information as possible on both parties. GZ was on trial, not TM, and while this information may shatter the cherubic image of TM when he was 11 that got plastered everywhere to paint the defendant as a child killer, it was actually useless in the case and both sides knew it.

Additionally you can hear the full 911 tape that was edited very early on to make it sound like GZ was racist (instead of him simply responding to the dispatcher’s questioning), testimony that supports the fact that a 911 operator saying “we don’t need you to do that” is part of a standard script they must follow to avoid legal implications lest someone suffers injuries, as well as history of previous calls from neighborhood watchers - GZ included - where the cops didn’t show up in time and the record of several recent break-ins in the community in question.

Now obviously I’m hoping to not get jumped on by stating all of this and I have no intention of really getting involved in this thread, BUT in light of what occurred, when all evidence (real provable evidence, not someone hearing a muffled sound over a phone and imagining that it’s a headset being thrown on the grass) is weighing solely on one side, and the final decision is in the hands of people with nothing to gain or lose, all selected and agreed upon by both legal teams, despite the fact that someone lost his life, when the defendant has violated no laws under state or federal decrees, then no matter how many people try to pin it on unrelated (unprovable) matters, the verdict is what it is in the eyes of the law.

I guess I’m just shocked at how the perceived racial divide is actually reinforced by people in positions where they could actually do some good instead.

S

811

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Realizing this has become an amazingly sensitive topic (I’ve lost a lot of respect for various people I’m “friends” with on FB), I’m wondering how many people actually watched the entire trial and understand the amount of evidence that all seemed to support one side. If people are capable of ignoring for just a moment the media and race-baiters who seem to make a living out of sensationalizing this horrific event and inciting extreme emotions over a purely objective view of the law, you can go online and view full testimonies of :

  • the first cops at the scene
  • the lead detectives who oversaw various interviews personally as well as oversaw accumulation of all data
  • an eyewitness to a very one sided beat down
  • a forensic pathologist
  • a breakdown of the autopsy and complete breakdown of locations of bruising and injuries sustained by both parties (not the mortician who prepared the body at a later date, but the guy who analyzes bodies for the police immediately post incident)
  • GZ’s personal trainer who testified that he was horribly out of shape and incapable of throwing a punch
  • Law enforcement Dennis Root (who provided an amazingly detailed analysis of the entire series of events, I recommend this highly!)
  • and pretty much everyone else involved in any way

and yes, you can even get the information on TM’s being found with stolen items in school, his past drug history, drug residue found on him in school, and eventual suspension from his school which was the reason he was sent to Fla in the first place. For the record, despite what people like Martin Bashir are putting out there in their own videos, this information wasn’t even used in the trial. No one character assassinated TM. It is simply part of the standard process to gather as much information as possible on both parties. GZ was on trial, not TM, and while this information may shatter the cherubic image of TM when he was 11 that got plastered everywhere to paint the defendant as a child killer, it was actually useless in the case and both sides knew it.

Additionally you can hear the full 911 tape that was edited very early on to make it sound like GZ was racist (instead of him simply responding to the dispatcher’s questioning), testimony that supports the fact that a 911 operator saying “we don’t need you to do that” is part of a standard script they must follow to avoid legal implications lest someone suffers injuries, as well as history of previous calls from neighborhood watchers - GZ included - where the cops didn’t show up in time and the record of several recent break-ins in the community in question.

Now obviously I’m hoping to not get jumped on by stating all of this and I have no intention of really getting involved in this thread, BUT in light of what occurred, when all evidence (real provable evidence, not someone hearing a muffled sound over a phone and imagining that it’s a headset being thrown on the grass) is weighing solely on one side, and the final decision is in the hands of people with nothing to gain or lose, all selected and agreed upon by both legal teams, despite the fact that someone lost his life, when the defendant has violated no laws under state or federal decrees, then no matter how many people try to pin it on unrelated (unprovable) matters, the verdict is what it is in the eyes of the law.

I guess I’m just shocked at how the perceived racial divide is actually reinforced by people in positions where they could actually do some good instead.

S[/quote]

other than the well written post and logical argument

you must be racist…

812

And now comes the interesting part. People have been debating for 32 pages on this topic and trying to state what Stu has done succinctly in one post. The following actions will be one of the following, and all will be pitiful and humorous.

  1. People will butt-kiss Stu (not stating that Stu isn’t a good guy OR that he is wrong) because he is highly respected here and they don’t want to offend him.
  2. The flaming will now turn to Stu’s post, disregarding his status - this is at least sticking to your guns however not worthwhile sticking may be.
  3. Somehow Stu’s post will be overlooked/missed much like mine seem to have been the past 3 days except for by a few people.

Maybe there’s an option 4. Regardless, its always interesting to see what information is actually out there, when you look for it. Good job!

813

Option 4: Prof X and DarkNinjaa will continue to prove that they should spend the rest of their lives as walmart greeters.

814

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

And hebrewhero, what did White people do to you that you think everyone who disagrees with you is racist? Serious question.[/quote]

I dont hate white people. I am white. But as a white man with a black wife and 3 mixed kids which by anyones intial glance would just assume them black I get put in the unfortunate position of dealing with racisim frequently. All the time I hear white people say stupid shit about black people becuase they assume its “safe” to say it around me.

When I show them my kids pictures or mention my famil status I get the same 2 stepin backtracking answers “oh well I didnt mean it like that” or “Im not racist thats not what I meant” I cant stand it and its bullshit… When people use terms like “those people” “they all do this” or my fav “oh thats how they talk” Its racist bullshit. In the realworld I confront people all the time on it so on here I shouldnt expect less as its just a micro-cosim of society. I respect all people of any color, ethnicty, religion, and style choice. [/quote]

Nice insight into the heart of the matter here.

The law is the law and I certainly don’t have all the details of the case but I suppose the jury had little choice with the current laws.

A lot of Black people scream racism. Some or a lot of White people disagree, saying no that is not racist. The current system, while progressive, is inherently created to keep those in control on top. Again, those in power telling others what is and what is not racist, just another form of control. Many will disagree, but the view from on top of the social mountain rarely sees a cloudy day. This is one reason why so many scream, “You have taken away my America, Bring back my America” etc in reference to now having a Black President (who is only half black, but never is referred to as white, funny how quickly you get kicked off that social ladder rung).

This is where the disconnect occurs. A White person cannot begin to understand what it is to be Black in this world just like a Black person would find it had to identify with growing up white. You could reference the one cool black guy in your white neighborhood as successful integration, but it is a thin veil for what hebrewhero referred in his post. When white people attempt to scream they have been discriminated against, minorities actually chuckle and shake their head. The entire society caters to your success. You are the hero, the role model, the upstanding citizen, smart, attractive, successful, healthy, what everyone should strive so hard to be like. Even by all biblical accounts, God-like.

Black…not so much.
Latino…not so much.
Indian, Asian, even foreign born white folks are not qualified. (Speak American, God dammit)

Again, this will fall very, very short in trying to explain what it can be like for a minority group and most likely will not change anyone’s views, but try to understand if someone tells you they feel bad because of something or a situation and you say “No, it is not like that, you are stupid to feel that way”, negates their very emotion. Imagine someone refuses to recognize you and how you feel, that would only make you feel much worse and even angry.

Try it the next time your wife shares her thoughts with you…

815

Did you guys see the pictures released today about terror suspect Dzhokar Tsarnaev??

Dude was wearing a hoodie…just saying…

816

Thanks Myosin thats a very well put statement. Its nice to see someone see it that way. Weather people want to agree or disagree on how race was used in Travons case will be forever debated. Im kinda done dealing with it now. And have come to the conclusion that there is such a gigantic divide on race perceptions and gun control that you will be on one side of the fence or the other no matter what.

That is how it is but for black people and fathers of black & brown kids it?s a much more complex and fucked up situation then what most white people can grasp. Which is how can I protect my son from a world where non-trained, un-identified, gun packing citizens have the ability to do their own police work based on their non trained non professional assessments Thats where race is a MEGA issue…

So as a father of a brown or black kid how do we train them to deal with that world? I now have to introduce my son to the neighborhood watch guy not only in my neighborhood but the neighborhoods of friends he could possibly go? WTF!! I have to make sure his clothing is up to the standards of middle age white people? WTF! How do I teach him whats suspicious walking? If hes too slow its suspicious if hes running will someone will chase him. If someone chases him does he freeze, or does he try to defend himself? Is something going to happen if hes at a new friends house and people dont recognize him.

White people with white sons for the most part wont have that fear. Im not a Navy seal with a law degree so how fuck am I supposed to make sure my son lives to see me die? Its hard enough having to worry about the police shooting an unarmed black or brown kid. Now we have to worry about everyone else. My father never had to teach me how to deal with police so I dont get shot, as a white man thats a non issue. For that matter he sure as shit didnt bring up armed citizens.

For black fathers teaching their kids about police is pretty normal. The perception of being safe because of police is not shared by all. Things like street sweeps, and corruption do exist but largely not in suburban or rural communities which are predominantly white. Add in the now fear of average possibly uniformed want to be cops and the fear level has just gone red alert for all parents of black & brown kids. Worst of all we have no way to protect them.

In regards to race on this matter?When everyones packing that?s why race tolerance, understanding, and reason are so god damn important.

817

It might help to raise kids to be respectful, friendly, and that know how to wear pants at an appropriate level. Probably a good starting point. None of those reasons will get them shot, but people tend to react much more positively when children themselves are also respectful.

The pants thing isn’t really a huge issue, but remember that “fad” only came about in the what is now late 20’s early 30’s generation. To any folks older than that its at the very least gross/dumb.

And if they ever get followed by someone at night, get to a safe place quickly, don’t stop to interact with them, and certainly don’t attack them. That should go for anyone creeped out by being stalked/followed.

Hell, from TM’s viewpoint all of those could have probably avoided things on his end.

Common sense saves the day!!!

Edit: If you’re truly worried about cops shooting your kid(s) just for being black/brown, maybe you should consider moving to a new/better area? Get out of dodge of wherever this inherent intense profiling exists.

818

[quote]Professor X wrote:
My point in my approach was to show how literally one sided “majority opinion” seems to be.

Majority opinion concludes that:
-Cops equal safety
-clothing styles equal thug

Minority opinion could alternately conclude that:
-Cops equal lack of safety and/or loss of life
-sagging doesn’t equal THUG at all

Funny how one side sees the other as “IDIOTIC”…but can’t see the institutional racism at all.
[/quote]

Let’s be real (realtalk.) Sagging pants where your whole ass is hanging out and you literally have to hold your pants up is thuggish plain and simple. If someone walks around with their whole ass hanging out and walking like a duck holding the crotch area of their pants to keep from falling, they are telling everyone they are a thug. Whether they are or not.

No different than a chick walking around public with her ass hanging out and tits about to bust out of her shirt being perceived as a slut. Or someone with a shaved head, long shorts, high socks, and SS tats being perceived as a skinhead. If a millionaire that doesn’t shower for a year or cut his hair or toenails and walks around with ripped jeans and a dirty sweatshirt? He’ll be perceived as a bum no matter how much money he really has. Someone that expects to be perceived any differently than they present themselves is ignorant, mentally handicapped, or probably both.

819

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
My point in my approach was to show how literally one sided “majority opinion” seems to be.

Majority opinion concludes that:
-Cops equal safety
-clothing styles equal thug

Minority opinion could alternately conclude that:
-Cops equal lack of safety and/or loss of life
-sagging doesn’t equal THUG at all

Funny how one side sees the other as “IDIOTIC”…but can’t see the institutional racism at all.
[/quote]

Let’s be real (realtalk.) Sagging pants where your whole ass is hanging out and you literally have to hold your pants up is thuggish plain and simple. If someone walks around with their whole ass hanging out and walking like a duck holding the crotch area of their pants to keep from falling, they are telling everyone they are a thug. Whether they are or not. No different than a chick walking around public with her ass hanging out and tits about to bust out of her shirt being perceived as a slut. Or someone with a shaved head, long shorts, high socks, and SS tats being perceived as a skinhead. If a millionaire that doesn’t shower for a year or cut his hair or toenails and walks around with ripped jeans and a dirty sweatshirt? He’ll be perceived as a bum no matter how much money he really has. Someone that expects to be perceived any differently than they present themselves is ignorant, mentally handicapped, or probably both.

[/quote]

Why the hell do people do this? It does seem like a mentally handicapped social statement.

820

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
My point in my approach was to show how literally one sided “majority opinion” seems to be.

Majority opinion concludes that:
-Cops equal safety
-clothing styles equal thug

Minority opinion could alternately conclude that:
-Cops equal lack of safety and/or loss of life
-sagging doesn’t equal THUG at all

Funny how one side sees the other as “IDIOTIC”…but can’t see the institutional racism at all.
[/quote]

Let’s be real (realtalk.) Sagging pants where your whole ass is hanging out and you literally have to hold your pants up is thuggish plain and simple. If someone walks around with their whole ass hanging out and walking like a duck holding the crotch area of their pants to keep from falling, they are telling everyone they are a thug. Whether they are or not. No different than a chick walking around public with her ass hanging out and tits about to bust out of her shirt being perceived as a slut. Or someone with a shaved head, long shorts, high socks, and SS tats being perceived as a skinhead. If a millionaire that doesn’t shower for a year or cut his hair or toenails and walks around with ripped jeans and a dirty sweatshirt? He’ll be perceived as a bum no matter how much money he really has. Someone that expects to be perceived any differently than they present themselves is ignorant, mentally handicapped, or probably both.

[/quote]

Why the hell do people do this? It does seem like a mentally handicapped social statement.
[/quote]

Regardless, we are old fucks that don’t understand some of todays trends just as our parents didn’t understand some of our trends. My daughters last boyfriend dressed like this, but once you got past it he was a smart thoughtful kid who would actually initiate conversation, that just happened to dress like a dumbass.