Air: True, very true, and both parties have the potential to be guilty of unfavorable/smart actions post profiling.
Like I have said: I have been profiled 2xs over seas both at gun point. I know what its like, and I know my initial reaction was disappointment. Now though, I really understand. It does suck.
[quote]WN76 wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
LEO are trained to keep that weapon out of the bad guys hands at all cost. In a struggle they will press down on the pistol to keep it holstered. Some officers will have a small knife to back the guy up with one hand to gain distance to draw.
But if the feel that they will be fucked up and the bad guy can just take the weapon then Bang, Bang. Safety of themselves and the public and all that good stuff.[/quote]
The small knife is carried on the weak side and is used to punch into the bad guys ribs if you are in a struggle and he is going for your gun or you can’t get to your gun. Of course, the knife is strictly a “tool” and not a weapon. [/quote]
Truth
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Do you realy believe it was that severe of a beating? I think thats media hype… 2 small cuts and a busted nose… I’ve got worse beatings at family BBQ’s gone bad. Most of you guys on here have had some MA or MMA expierence at the very least a few bar fights. Can you realy say due to those injuries it warented a chest shot??? Martin didnt need stiches or even have a concusion… Could he not have pistol whiped the kid or shot a shoulder arm or leg… In looking at TM do you realy think he was the next Jon Jones?? The whole thing thats disturbing is whith stand your ground untrained trigger happy guys can go live their fucked up dirty hairy fantasy… If it came out that Zimm was well trained went through extensive training to be a armed watch comander & followed police protocal I’d have a different opinion. But due to Florida law he is not quility and its fucked up becuase its not a good law and inocent people die. Even worse guys like Zimm are exactley who wants be these watch types and with loose gun laws we will see more dead youth.
[/quote]
If he felt his life was in danger, then he was justified. In any case there was NO REASON for Martin Trayvon to attack him. None! If someone is smashing your head on to the ground, regardless of what injuries you may receive, then you have every right to fear for your life.
How is Trayvon Martin innocent? Guys like Mr. Zimmerman? How about wannabe thug pieces of shit like Trayvon Martin?
[/quote]
What makes Trayvon a thug or a piece of shit? Prior to his conflict with Zimm how was he a thug?
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
So your saying a guy of any race can’t wear a hoodie to walk home? And he should be smart enough not to go to the store? Or wait until he’s old enough to drive to ever leave the house?[/quote]
It was about acting in a manner deemed suspicious by someone who lived in an area where all the perpetrators were young black males, all dressed in the same fashion.
It was about running away from someone because he thought it was weird how you were looking at the houses in the pouring rain.[/quote]
So your saying he took off running for no other reason then Zimmerman was looking at him?
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
So your saying a guy of any race can’t wear a hoodie to walk home? And he should be smart enough not to go to the store? Or wait until he’s old enough to drive to ever leave the house?[/quote]
As to the hoodie: what does the sign on the bank door say? “Remove all hats, hoods and sunglasses before proceeding to the counter.” I’m not allowed to break that rule.
Yes there are idiots in this world. Your life is in danger in your home and out of your home, at all times. Shit 8 year old kids in school aren’t safe from crazy fools. This has and will never, ever change, as long as humans are human. Every civilization larger than a fart has had this problem.
In this particular case, ans as proven by the FBI, this particular idiot wasn’t a racist. So yes, if I was in Martin’s shoes, it is very likely the same series of events that lead to the altercation would have occurred. If it was someone like Byrd, then fine.
Point being, isn’t assuming because I’m white I don’t have similar issues to be concerned about a bit of brainwashing as well?
[quote]WN76 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WN76 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
If an officer is engaged in a fight…even if losing…they will not draw their weapons and fire.
[/quote]
lol, where the fuck do you live?
The only time they wouldn’t fire in a fight is when the “suspect” is getting the living shit kicked out of him.
But you can bet your sweet ass if you got the upper hand on an LEO, your ass is more likely than not getting shot…[/quote]
If by upper hand you mean grievous bodily harm or death, then yes. [/quote]
Dude, I’m not saying all of LEO are dirty, but you best believe I’m never rolling the dice.
Not in my area, nor where I grew up. [/quote]
Fair enough. I wasn’t disagreeing with what you said, just clarifying a bit.
[/quote]
I’ve seen what happens when you smart mouth off duty Boston PD… Fuck you I’m going to test it out on an on duty LEO and expect him not to shoot me, lol.
Was there supposed to be a trial?
Or was everyone caving?
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Do you realy believe it was that severe of a beating? I think thats media hype… 2 small cuts and a busted nose… I’ve got worse beatings at family BBQ’s gone bad. Most of you guys on here have had some MA or MMA expierence at the very least a few bar fights. Can you realy say due to those injuries it warented a chest shot??? Martin didnt need stiches or even have a concusion… Could he not have pistol whiped the kid or shot a shoulder arm or leg… In looking at TM do you realy think he was the next Jon Jones?? The whole thing thats disturbing is whith stand your ground untrained trigger happy guys can go live their fucked up dirty hairy fantasy… If it came out that Zimm was well trained went through extensive training to be a armed watch comander & followed police protocal I’d have a different opinion. But due to Florida law he is not quility and its fucked up becuase its not a good law and inocent people die. Even worse guys like Zimm are exactley who wants be these watch types and with loose gun laws we will see more dead youth.
[/quote]
If he felt his life was in danger, then he was justified. In any case there was NO REASON for Martin Trayvon to attack him. None! If someone is smashing your head on to the ground, regardless of what injuries you may receive, then you have every right to fear for your life.
How is Trayvon Martin innocent? Guys like Mr. Zimmerman? How about wannabe thug pieces of shit like Trayvon Martin?
[/quote]
Why did Trayvon take off running before any contact with Zimmerman?
Why was his body found in someones backyard?
[/quote]
Who knows… he was a teen hanging out in his dads fiances neighborhood. Maybe he was drinking or getting high when Zimm yelled after him. Maybe he was banging a girl in the complex. Maybe he was stopping to send texts or some phone shit. Before we assume he’s robbing the place blind why not assume normal everyday teenage shit… If I was 17 and some dude came running asfter me I might run too or throw down out of fear. We will realy never know what happened
[quote]Professor X wrote:
…and he was damned he did and damned if he didn’t.[/quote]
I don’t think so. I think he should have waited before the facts of the case actually came to bear before commenting, particularly as a Harvard grad, and “lawyer”.
[quote]He’s a relatively black person who felt the same thing I did…yet as we can see, you think needs to be swept under carpets.
[/quote]
Don’t confuse me thinking race is secondary in this case, and my frustration at the media and politicos creating a race war with it, as me thinking it can’t be discussed.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WN76 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WN76 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
If an officer is engaged in a fight…even if losing…they will not draw their weapons and fire.
[/quote]
lol, where the fuck do you live?
The only time they wouldn’t fire in a fight is when the “suspect” is getting the living shit kicked out of him.
But you can bet your sweet ass if you got the upper hand on an LEO, your ass is more likely than not getting shot…[/quote]
If by upper hand you mean grievous bodily harm or death, then yes. [/quote]
Dude, I’m not saying all of LEO are dirty, but you best believe I’m never rolling the dice.
Not in my area, nor where I grew up. [/quote]
Fair enough. I wasn’t disagreeing with what you said, just clarifying a bit.
[/quote]
I’ve seen what happens when you smart mouth off duty Boston PD… Fuck you I’m going to test it out on an on duty LEO and expect him not to shoot me, lol. [/quote]
Of the cops I know who have been charged with assault, I would say all but one were off duty at the time.
Anyway, good luck to you in your endeavors =)
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
So your saying a guy of any race can’t wear a hoodie to walk home? And he should be smart enough not to go to the store? Or wait until he’s old enough to drive to ever leave the house?[/quote]
As to the hoodie: what does the sign on the bank door say? “Remove all hats, hoods and sunglasses before proceeding to the counter.” I’m not allowed to break that rule.
Yes there are idiots in this world. Your life is in danger in your home and out of your home, at all times. Shit 8 year old kids in school aren’t safe from crazy fools. This has and will never, ever change, as long as humans are human. Every civilization larger than a fart has had this problem.
In this particular case, ans as proven by the FBI, this particular idiot wasn’t a racist. So yes, if I was in Martin’s shoes, it is very likely the same series of events that lead to the altercation would have occurred. If it was someone like Byrd, then fine.
Point being, isn’t assuming because I’m white I don’t have similar issues to be concerned about a bit of brainwashing as well?[/quote]
I don’t see how your bank rule applies to a guy walking home from the store.
What issues am I assuming you don’t have to be concerned about?
I admitted already in my post that I can be brainwashed, my job in life is to better myself and let reality decide for me. God forbid I do and murder somebody because of my brainwashing and not what the person did, I technically should have to pay the consequence.
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
[quote]dk44 wrote:
… So, dress like a thug, I am going to assume you are one. [/quote]
Even when the person dressing like a thug is white, I hope.
[/quote]
100% yes. At least in my personal case.
[quote]no_name_narrator wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’m not ignoring or rationalizing anything.
Are you trying to tell me what these two people saw in each other that night, these two individuals alone, is a reflection of society at large?
[/quote]
Yes, in a way, I am.
This is where personal experience gets labeled as “pulling race cards”…and where pop media actually affects society at large with my skin color being the pivot point…or yours.
What is being hotly felt across the nation isn’t the death of a kid. Kids die every day and he wasn’t even that young.
It is about how a large segment of the population sees themselves in every news broadcast…gets told on message boards that they need to “police their own communities”…and then has to deal with the fact that people then claim “race does not exist and the first black pres should never have been struck by it emotionally or shown it”.
Simply put, CN…this is about me seeing myself being treated like that kid.
You don’t have that risk.
I do.
[/quote]
I’m not even trying to beat a dead horse I’m really trying to figure out why it seems a greater percentage of black people can see this?
My first thought would be maybe only some people think brainwashing exists, but then I’ve seen plenty of the conservative threads where they complain about the brainwashing of media when it comes to democratic issues.
Do people think they are superior to brainwashing?
[/quote]
You really want to suck Professor’s big black cock don’t you?[/quote]
So it really is big and black, how did you like it?
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I don’t see how your bank rule applies to a guy walking home from the store.[/quote]
Why are hoodies included in the rule?
Are all people wearing hoodies up to no good? Absolutely not, that is a ridiculous assumption. However, they carry a certain assumption. At night in a neighborhood that had that many break-ins…
X said it, and you quoted him.
[quote]I admitted already in my post that I can be brainwashed, my job in life is to better myself and let reality decide for me. God forbid I do and murder somebody because of my brainwashing and not what the person did, I technically should have to pay the consequence.
[/quote]
I know. Like I said we are talking past each other a lot, because we disagree on the implications of the trial. But I don’t think you are an unreasonable person at all.
You mentioned earlier about starting a thread on Chicago deaths etc… It is just as much my responsibility as it would be yours. I’m not trying to say it makes your point about this case invalid, but rather that if we are going to get all up in arms about a black youth getting killed that by all accounts shouldn’t have been, we need to be this up in arms over every black youth that is killed.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I don’t see how your bank rule applies to a guy walking home from the store.[/quote]
Why are hoodies included in the rule?
Are all people wearing hoodies up to no good? Absolutely not, that is a ridiculous assumption. However, they carry a certain assumption. At night in a neighborhood that had that many break-ins…
X said it, and you quoted him.
[quote]I admitted already in my post that I can be brainwashed, my job in life is to better myself and let reality decide for me. God forbid I do and murder somebody because of my brainwashing and not what the person did, I technically should have to pay the consequence.
[/quote]
I know. Like I said we are talking past each other a lot, because we disagree on the implications of the trial. But I don’t think you are an unreasonable person at all.
You mentioned earlier about starting a thread on Chicago deaths etc… It is just as much my responsibility as it would be yours. I’m not trying to say it makes your point about this case invalid, but rather that if we are going to get all up in arms about a black youth getting killed that by all accounts shouldn’t have been, we need to be this up in arms over every black youth that is killed.
[/quote]
That’s where the brainwashing and plan of attack comes in. The full response to your statement is essay worthy, so I’m not going there, but I’ll say the above urban area average of murders in most communities come from the fact that people don’t value the lives of themselves and their neighbors. This case legally backs up that point, and further brainwashes them into continuing their behavior.
Hoodies are the rule because in the bank it helps to conceal the persons face. Not becausethe person looks like a criminal.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Not really Zimmerman can do all the profiling he wanted. And so can Martin. What we are trying to get people to see is it’s not the profiling that is the problem, it’s everything that happens after the profiling.
[/quote]
Can you expand on this please? Not sure, but as it stands I think I agree with you here.
As a side note, lost in all the mudslinging in these two threads is the fact that a lot of people here are not “in support” of Zimmerman and in fact several (including beans) think he should have possibly done time for manslaughter. So it’s not like everybody’s trying to make him out to be some innocent, which gets lost in the shuffle when DN is trolling so many people so hard about how racist Zimm was. He’s a retard at best and at worst he is a legally culpable moronic retard. But he’s not a racist and that’s pretty well established. I’m not saying this for you Air, just as a note on what I see happening in this thread.
Its not out of the norm:
http://dailykenn.blogspot.com/2012/04/todays-hoodie-crime-update.html
Im not saying everyone with a hoodie = robbery/criminal/etc
I have several hoodies, Dave Tate wears hoodies, hoodies are fucking comfortable, so n does not equal one. But it is normal, especially for a robbery suspect, to wear a hoodie. Type in robberies in youtube, you will have several case examples.
The dude who robbed me: black hoodie.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Its not out of the norm:
http://dailykenn.blogspot.com/2012/04/todays-hoodie-crime-update.html
Im not saying everyone with a hoodie = robbery/criminal/etc
I have several hoodies, Dave Tate wears hoodies, hoodies are fucking comfortable, so n does not equal one. But it is normal, especially for a robbery suspect, to wear a hoodie. Type in robberies in youtube, you will have several case examples.
The dude who robbed me: black hoodie. [/quote]
The dude that robbed me…Gucci.
Damn Gucci to hell!
Prof: Haha no I wish…I think it was target or Mervyns…had a Dodger hat on too…dead give away…