[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Love Nike wrote:
can we think about them?[/quote]
Why isn’t THIS a reflection of our society at large?
Why can’t it be?
[/quote]
There is no (good)way to answer that without being accused of racism.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’m not ignoring or rationalizing anything.
Are you trying to tell me what these two people saw in each other that night, these two individuals alone, is a reflection of society at large?
[/quote]
Yes, in a way, I am.
This is where personal experience gets labeled as “pulling race cards”…and where pop media actually affects society at large with my skin color being the pivot point…or yours.
What is being hotly felt across the nation isn’t the death of a kid. Kids die ever day and he wasn’t even that young.
It is about how a large segment of the population sees themselves in every news broadcast…gets told on message boards that they need to “police their own communities”…and then has to deal with the fact that people then claim “race does not exist an the first black pres should never have been struck by it emotionally or shown it”.
Simply put, CN…this is about me seeing myself being treated like that kid.
You don’t have that risk.
I do.
[/quote]
Hey look at that, its about X again…
Counting: Currently simi valley. After I posted that I actually spoke with a few cops I train, they said the same thing: if they think they are going out, they would draw and fire, but that’s hindsight. I know of a situation where a cop client was fighting an ex lineman on the beach, suspect was not only a non-comply, officer was throat striking, putting sand in his mouth and eyes and suspect was still trying to feel his belt and almost over powering the officer, Officer still didn’t draw.
This leads me to believe ponder two things:
- Zimmerman felt the situation was so dangerous his only backup was to shoot.
Note: Again if Martin was saying anything like “ima fuck you up, ima kill you” normal shit said in a fight then that would make the situation far more intense.
2)Zimmerman was a racist Peruvian/Hispanic who really wanted to kill a black teenager walking alone on a rainy night in a nice area.
Note: He would have to have an expressed history or there would be evidence leading to a pre-meditated murder.
I asked my clients and they said: if the situation appeared that they were losing the upper hand, the suspect was so threating and the situation was so threating that they would lose their own lives then theyd fire. As I said, humans don’t really have a drive to want to kill other people.
Air: By saying that no white jury could come up with a different verdict is ultimately racist.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
If an officer is engaged in a fight…even if losing…they will not draw their weapons and fire.
[/quote]
lol, where the fuck do you live?
The only time they wouldn’t fire in a fight is when the “suspect” is getting the living shit kicked out of him.
But you can bet your sweet ass if you got the upper hand on an LEO, your ass is more likely than not getting shot…[/quote]
If by upper hand you mean grievous bodily harm or death, then yes.
Also, Rachel, the witness that new Martin best, said he should have ran. And that the person following him was a cracka, but to her and Martin that means “cop or security” person.
She also said Martin thought it was someone trying to rape or kidnap him.
That Martin is definitely the kind of person who could attack and win a fight over someone, and be an aggressor.
And because the jury was all white and the Hispanic was “caught up in the mix” there was no way people could understand/there would be a fair verdict. that a white boy, in a hood, walking between complexes, in the rain, wouldn’t have had a problem. That’s kind of racist.
oh…here we go…: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/07/new-talking-point-trayvon-martin-was-real-bigot-because-he-thought-zimmerman-was-gay/67235/
either way, its fucked up, on both sides of the fence for Zimmerman to be sitting in a car profiling Martin as it is equally fucked up for Martin to be walking profiling Zimmerman and because of the media, we probably cant drop this race card shit.
LEO are trained to keep that weapon out of the bad guys hands at all cost. In a struggle they will press down on the pistol to keep it holstered. Some officers will have a small knife to back the guy up with one hand to gain distance to draw.
But if the feel that they will be fucked up and the bad guy can just take the weapon then Bang, Bang. Safety of themselves and the public and all that good stuff.
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Do you realy believe it was that severe of a beating? I think thats media hype… 2 small cuts and a busted nose… I’ve got worse beatings at family BBQ’s gone bad. Most of you guys on here have had some MA or MMA expierence at the very least a few bar fights. Can you realy say due to those injuries it warented a chest shot??? Martin didnt need stiches or even have a concusion… Could he not have pistol whiped the kid or shot a shoulder arm or leg… In looking at TM do you realy think he was the next Jon Jones?? The whole thing thats disturbing is whith stand your ground untrained trigger happy guys can go live their fucked up dirty hairy fantasy… If it came out that Zimm was well trained went through extensive training to be a armed watch comander & followed police protocal I’d have a different opinion. But due to Florida law he is not quility and its fucked up becuase its not a good law and inocent people die. Even worse guys like Zimm are exactley who wants be these watch types and with loose gun laws we will see more dead youth.
[/quote]
If he felt his life was in danger, then he was justified. In any case there was NO REASON for Martin Trayvon to attack him. None! If someone is smashing your head on to the ground, regardless of what injuries you may receive, then you have every right to fear for your life.
How is Trayvon Martin innocent? Guys like Mr. Zimmerman? How about wannabe thug pieces of shit like Trayvon Martin?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’m not ignoring or rationalizing anything.
Are you trying to tell me what these two people saw in each other that night, these two individuals alone, is a reflection of society at large?
[/quote]
I am.[/quote]
Why? Why is that a reflection of society at large and not the plethora of mixed race lovers in the world?
That is you picking and choosing, selective outrage. [/quote]
Because I live in this society and that is what I feel I’ve witnessed. I and many other black people have the same stereotypes as Zimmerman, I don’t doubt that. Teenagers of all kinds annoy the shit out of me, I think stupid shit happens in Florida. But those are my feelings and what I do when I pre judge a situation. What keeps me from being racist is the ability say well as grimey as that guy in the hoodie over there looks he is not committing one criminal offense so I will let him walk.
If I hear of a situation of any race where a grown ass man/old teenagers takes off running full speed from someone else I’m going to deduct that the guy did it because of a gun or he was about to get jumped.
For all the pictures and videos I probably wouldn’t even assume he was a young thug or punk unless people came forward and said Trayvon was always bullying me.
If I heard some guy had a shady past consisting of increasingly overzealous acts, I would think the stereotypes ingrained in me from years of biased reporting took over that guy and caused him to do something with bad intent.
I only have 10 fingers and a job, I simply don’t have the time to not be selective. I didn’t start a Trayvon thread on T-Nation and just as much as I didn’t start a Chicago murders thread, or fox reporting thread. No I probably wouldn’t argue in those 2 threads because most of the topics I would bring up I don’t feel like many on T-Nation can relate to. Even more so now.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’m not ignoring or rationalizing anything.
Are you trying to tell me what these two people saw in each other that night, these two individuals alone, is a reflection of society at large?
[/quote]
Yes, in a way, I am.
This is where personal experience gets labeled as “pulling race cards”…and where pop media actually affects society at large with my skin color being the pivot point…or yours.
What is being hotly felt across the nation isn’t the death of a kid. Kids die every day and he wasn’t even that young.
It is about how a large segment of the population sees themselves in every news broadcast…gets told on message boards that they need to “police their own communities”…and then has to deal with the fact that people then claim “race does not exist and the first black pres should never have been struck by it emotionally or shown it”.
Simply put, CN…this is about me seeing myself being treated like that kid.
You don’t have that risk.
I do.
[/quote]
I’m not even trying to beat a dead horse I’m really trying to figure out why it seems a greater percentage of black people can see this?
My first thought would be maybe only some people think brainwashing exists, but then I’ve seen plenty of the conservative threads where they complain about the brainwashing of media when it comes to democratic issues.
Do people think they are superior to brainwashing?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
gets told on message boards that they need to “police their own communities”…[/quote]
One would hope that those who say this have their own steps swept clean. Assuming it was a white person that said it, I know they don’t.
POTUS can be as emotional as he wants, he cannot however react emotionally without catching flack for it.
I think Bush’s “he tried to kill my daddy” comments were at least, if not more, of a disrespect to the office as the Martin comments if it brings anything into more of a perspective.
ANd again, had he sat down and penned an open letter yesterday about it, spoke or race, and it role in American Society, that is one thing. But what he did was… It was wrong, Plain and simple.
[quote]this is about me seeing myself being treated like that kid.
You don’t have that risk.
I do.
[/quote]
There are streets I can’t walk down, and if I do, I’m asking for trouble, just over the river from my house. One of the gangs in my immediate area is famous for home invasions, and they aren’t kicking in the doors of other Asian gangs…
Shit there are bars and clubs I’m not “allowed” to go to either.
I’m not about to make the assumption that if I were dressed like and acting like Martin, a dumbass like Zimmerman wouldn’t have done the same thing to me.
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Do you realy believe it was that severe of a beating? I think thats media hype… 2 small cuts and a busted nose… I’ve got worse beatings at family BBQ’s gone bad. Most of you guys on here have had some MA or MMA expierence at the very least a few bar fights. Can you realy say due to those injuries it warented a chest shot??? Martin didnt need stiches or even have a concusion… Could he not have pistol whiped the kid or shot a shoulder arm or leg… In looking at TM do you realy think he was the next Jon Jones?? The whole thing thats disturbing is whith stand your ground untrained trigger happy guys can go live their fucked up dirty hairy fantasy… If it came out that Zimm was well trained went through extensive training to be a armed watch comander & followed police protocal I’d have a different opinion. But due to Florida law he is not quility and its fucked up becuase its not a good law and inocent people die. Even worse guys like Zimm are exactley who wants be these watch types and with loose gun laws we will see more dead youth.
[/quote]
If he felt his life was in danger, then he was justified. In any case there was NO REASON for Martin Trayvon to attack him. None! If someone is smashing your head on to the ground, regardless of what injuries you may receive, then you have every right to fear for your life.
How is Trayvon Martin innocent? Guys like Mr. Zimmerman? How about wannabe thug pieces of shit like Trayvon Martin?
[/quote]
Why did Trayvon take off running before any contact with Zimmerman?
Why was his body found in someones backyard?
[quote]four60 wrote:
LEO are trained to keep that weapon out of the bad guys hands at all cost. In a struggle they will press down on the pistol to keep it holstered. Some officers will have a small knife to back the guy up with one hand to gain distance to draw.
But if the feel that they will be fucked up and the bad guy can just take the weapon then Bang, Bang. Safety of themselves and the public and all that good stuff.[/quote]
The small knife is carried on the weak side and is used to punch into the bad guys ribs if you are in a struggle and he is going for your gun or you can’t get to your gun. Of course, the knife is strictly a “tool” and not a weapon.
[quote]WN76 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
If an officer is engaged in a fight…even if losing…they will not draw their weapons and fire.
[/quote]
lol, where the fuck do you live?
The only time they wouldn’t fire in a fight is when the “suspect” is getting the living shit kicked out of him.
But you can bet your sweet ass if you got the upper hand on an LEO, your ass is more likely than not getting shot…[/quote]
If by upper hand you mean grievous bodily harm or death, then yes. [/quote]
Dude, I’m not saying all of LEO are dirty, but you best believe I’m never rolling the dice.
Not in my area, nor where I grew up.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
gets told on message boards that they need to “police their own communities”…[/quote]
One would hope that those who say this have their own steps swept clean. Assuming it was a white person that said it, I know they don’t.
POTUS can be as emotional as he wants, he cannot however react emotionally without catching flack for it.
I think Bush’s “he tried to kill my daddy” comments were at least, if not more, of a disrespect to the office as the Martin comments if it brings anything into more of a perspective.
ANd again, had he sat down and penned an open letter yesterday about it, spoke or race, and it role in American Society, that is one thing. But what he did was… It was wrong, Plain and simple.
[quote]this is about me seeing myself being treated like that kid.
You don’t have that risk.
I do.
[/quote]
There are streets I can’t walk down, and if I do, I’m asking for trouble, just over the river from my house. One of the gangs in my immediate area is famous for home invasions, and they aren’t kicking in the doors of other Asian gangs…
Shit there are bars and clubs I’m not “allowed” to go to either.
I’m not about to make the assumption that if I were dressed like and acting like Martin, a dumbass like Zimmerman wouldn’t have done the same thing to me.
[/quote]
So your saying a guy of any race can’t wear a hoodie to walk home? And he should be smart enough not to go to the store? Or wait until he’s old enough to drive to ever leave the house?
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
oh…here we go…: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/07/new-talking-point-trayvon-martin-was-real-bigot-because-he-thought-zimmerman-was-gay/67235/
either way, its fucked up, on both sides of the fence for Zimmerman to be sitting in a car profiling Martin as it is equally fucked up for Martin to be walking profiling Zimmerman and because of the media, we probably cant drop this race card shit. [/quote]
Not really Zimmerman can do all the profiling he wanted. And so can Martin. What we are trying to get people to see is it’s not the profiling that is the problem, it’s everything that happens after the profiling.
Imagine if the FBI did one large arrest tomorrow on everybody they profiled to be a Serial killer. Are you going to say they should never have profiled?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]WN76 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
If an officer is engaged in a fight…even if losing…they will not draw their weapons and fire.
[/quote]
lol, where the fuck do you live?
The only time they wouldn’t fire in a fight is when the “suspect” is getting the living shit kicked out of him.
But you can bet your sweet ass if you got the upper hand on an LEO, your ass is more likely than not getting shot…[/quote]
If by upper hand you mean grievous bodily harm or death, then yes. [/quote]
Dude, I’m not saying all of LEO are dirty, but you best believe I’m never rolling the dice.
Not in my area, nor where I grew up. [/quote]
Fair enough. I wasn’t disagreeing with what you said, just clarifying a bit.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’m not ignoring or rationalizing anything.
Are you trying to tell me what these two people saw in each other that night, these two individuals alone, is a reflection of society at large?
[/quote]
Yes, in a way, I am.
This is where personal experience gets labeled as “pulling race cards”…and where pop media actually affects society at large with my skin color being the pivot point…or yours.
What is being hotly felt across the nation isn’t the death of a kid. Kids die every day and he wasn’t even that young.
It is about how a large segment of the population sees themselves in every news broadcast…gets told on message boards that they need to “police their own communities”…and then has to deal with the fact that people then claim “race does not exist and the first black pres should never have been struck by it emotionally or shown it”.
Simply put, CN…this is about me seeing myself being treated like that kid.
You don’t have that risk.
I do.
[/quote]
I’m not even trying to beat a dead horse I’m really trying to figure out why it seems a greater percentage of black people can see this?
My first thought would be maybe only some people think brainwashing exists, but then I’ve seen plenty of the conservative threads where they complain about the brainwashing of media when it comes to democratic issues.
Do people think they are superior to brainwashing?
[/quote]
You really want to suck Professor’s big black cock don’t you?
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
So your saying a guy of any race can’t wear a hoodie to walk home? And he should be smart enough not to go to the store? Or wait until he’s old enough to drive to ever leave the house?[/quote]
It was about acting in a manner deemed suspicious by someone who lived in an area where all the perpetrators were young black males, all dressed in the same fashion.
It was about running away from someone because he thought it was weird how you were looking at the houses in the pouring rain.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
gets told on message boards that they need to “police their own communities”…[/quote]
One would hope that those who say this have their own steps swept clean. Assuming it was a white person that said it, I know they don’t. [/quote]
They just did this in the political forum in that “profiling thread”.
No one saw any fault with it when he said it until pages later when I brought it up.
[quote]
POTUS can be as emotional as he wants, he cannot however react emotionally without catching flack for it. [/quote]
…and he was damned he did and damned if he didn’t.
He’s a relatively black person who felt the same thing I did…yet as we can see, you think needs to be swept under carpets.