Pretty good article on the “myth of black on black crime.”
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Yes, there are social implications to basically saying it is alright to judge a black man as a THREAT because he is dressed in a very common fashion item or “acting black”.
The issue was never what specific race Zimmerman was but what he was PERCEIVED as and what Martin was PERCEIVED as at the time of the incident.
That is why one death can hold more social significance over another.
You can choose to ignore this…and you likely will…or you may try to rationalize it away.[/quote]
I don’t need to rationalize anything. If you continue to ignore significant facts and circumstances and want to hang your hat on “racial profiling” alone, I don’t care anymore.
You don’t care about any possible reason other than Martin was black for Zimmerman to have involved himself in the matter. I’m not about to spend any more time than I already have beating that dead horse.
No. Reality is everything.
You can perceive whatever you want, doesn’t make it true, and you know this. Making up facts, like calling Zimmerman white, isn’t realty, even though it sure seems like a common perception.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Still confused as to why anyone is trying to debate with DN. [/quote]
Not trying to debate, just following along to see how many times his/it’s ignorance/racism will allow him/it to completely miss the point.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
I still don’t see how a ground in pound = getting shot, I still stand by that. [/quote]
How about when it hasn’t stopped 40 seconds later. Even after a witness has screamed at Martin to stop and “cut it out!.” But, no, Zimmerman is obliged to wait until he has permanent visual, auditory, or speech issues. Or maybe he’s supposed to wait until that one flush blow puts him out underneath, and at the complete mercy, of a Martin who doesn’t appear to get the idea that it’s time to reign it in. Or maybe he’s supposed to wait he’s until he’s dead of subdural hematoma.
Not one fight injury on Martin, except for the knuckles of one hand. Not a one. This was a one sided beating that kept going and going, not stopping even when a witness screamed at Martin to “cut it out.”
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Yes, there are social implications to basically saying it is alright to judge a black man as a THREAT because he is dressed in a very common fashion item or “acting black”.
The issue was never what specific race Zimmerman was but what he was PERCEIVED as and what Martin was PERCEIVED as at the time of the incident.
That is why one death can hold more social significance over another.
You can choose to ignore this…and you likely will…or you may try to rationalize it away.[/quote]
I don’t need to rationalize anything. If you continue to ignore significant facts and circumstances and want to hang your hat on “racial profiling” alone, I don’t care anymore.
You don’t care about any possible reason other than Martin was black for Zimmerman to have involved himself in the matter. I’m not about to spend any more time than I already have beating that dead horse.
No. Reality is everything.
You can perceive whatever you want, doesn’t make it true, and you know this. Making up facts, like calling Zimmerman white, isn’t realty, even though it sure seems like a common perception. [/quote]
Well said.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
I still don’t see how a ground in pound = getting shot, I still stand by that. [/quote]
How about when it hasn’t stopped 40 seconds later, even after a witness has screamed at Martin to stop and “cut it out!.” But, no Zimmerman is obliged to wait until he permanent visual, auditory, or speech issues. Or maybe he’s supposed to wait until that one flush blow puts him out underneath, and the complete mercy, of a Martin who doesn’t appear to get the idea that it’s time to call reign it in. Or maybe he’s supposed to wait he’s dead of subdural hematoma.
Not one fight injury on Martin, except for the knuckles of one hand. Not a one. This was a one sided beating that kept going and going, not stopping even when a witness screamed at Martin to “cut it out.”
[/quote]
Of course, if the tables were turned and the races reversed, you can guess who the people around here are that would be crying “NOT GUILTY”
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Pretty good article on the “myth of black on black crime.”[/quote]
The myth? In 2011 half of all homicides victims and known race offenders were black. But we’ll waste our time protesting the rare “white” on black homicide (rarer than black on white) in a case where the prosecutor hasn’t even tried to bring in hate crime charges, where the evidence was not existent to demonstrate ill will and hatred, and where the FBI had already investigated and ruled out a racial angle.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Still confused as to why anyone is trying to debate with DN. [/quote]
Not trying to debate, just following along to see how many times his/it’s ignorance/racism will allow him/it to completely miss the point. [/quote]
785 is my guess.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
You’re missing the point
[/quote]
I ain’t. If you want to bring the argument that blacks’ pass time is to riot over a white man killing a black, then I’ll bring the argument that whites pass time is to riot over football match loss and over pedophiles sent to jail.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Black people killing black people (which is statistically the majority of the time) = no riot. [/quote]
But should they? The offenders are usually arrested and jailed. And let’s not forget white people kill as much their own as blacks. But of course, it is always good for some white cunts to make blacks look like the animals they are within their community. The White race is pure and lustre after all. The big issues are in the fucking black community!
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
White or white looking person kills black person = black people riot. [/quote]
Especially if the offender gets away with murder or get lesser sentences. The pigs who beat the shit of Rodney King, anyone?
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Pathetic that black people dont lend any value to their fellow black people unless that life is taken by a non-black. [/quote]
Oh and you know that how? Based on what you read online or from your white supremacist websites?
Maybe I should also say the same about all the white people who get killed by their peers, uh? Do you give a shit about them?
Or maybe I should just totally ignore how outraged whites were when OJ simpson walked. Nah. Scrapped that.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
And the most ridiculous thing is, even if it can be perceived as a hate-crime, none of you would give a shit if it had just had a run in the sunday morning news paper and their wasnt a ridiculously overblown media circus surrounding it. [/quote]
Yeah, just like some white people don’t give a shit about a white teens killed by their peer, or a white woman killed by her alcoholic hubby. Hell fucking yeah.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Guarantee if it were a mexican or puerto rican kid most of you would have never even heard about this case. [/quote]
Ah, so I guess you got your nuts twisted because the blacks express outrage, uh?
Hahaha! Fucking hell. Let’s just go back in our slaves caves and shut our fucking mouths so we won’t run the risk to make the white folks feel uncomfortable. Lololol!!
And it is funny, how you underestimate the power of the mexican commnunity. You have no fucking idea. If a mexican kid is killed by a white fucker who gets away with it, I’m sure they will do everything possible to make sure the asshole goes to jail. Just like the TM family tried to .
Sloth: yeah, ive been in a few fights, Ive never even crossed the thought of killing the person. I don’t believe, curb stopping or shots/kicks to the head while an individual is unconscious is smart/fair/cool/needed but it happens a lot. If this would have happened to Zim then its what happens, Ive seen it happen to girls and the other female will strike the back of the neck with a kick after unconscious. Its called, don’t get knocked the fuck out. If ZIm did MMA, he obviously would have been in this situation. So maybe he felt threatened enough to draw and fire. If so it would have to be a reason as far as Martin saying “im going to kill you.”
I carry a knife on me most of the time and its reserved for particular situations.
I highly doubt Martin was really ground and pounding Zim for 40 seconds or 40 seconds severe enough to be drawn on.
Lets make this clear: COPS DONT EVEN DO THAT.
If an officer is engaged in a fight…even if losing…they will not draw their weapons and fire.
Youre getting punched in the face by guy on top of you doesn’t equate to pulling a loaded gun and firing it. In that situation it would be bad to draw the gun anyways for the reason of the other person taking it from you.
Stop and cut it out is reserved for children or puppies fighting, if you see two grown adults (dark and rainy) fighting in your upscale neighborhood to the point of someone being seriously injuried or killed more than likely you would intervene. You can see this in several case footage videos. A lot of people die for intervening. Which worries me that something about the situation the people were watching was wrong. Ive broken up several fights as well, its not too hard.
I was robbed and assaulted at gun point, this year, with my girlfriend, who was also assaulted, it was the only time I thought of killing an individual.
If I was in a fight today, bar or other I would not use the weapon unless they as well had a weapon. I know street fights aren’t fair and its just a street fight but a lot of fucking retards watch a little UFC and they think they are badasses. Ive been doing MMA since I was 14, over 17 years as well as trained with military and LEO, I would really be against using deadly force.
With that said, if I ever ran into the fucker that robbed me, id smoke him. I still have PTSD from that night. Contradictory I know, but you weren’t in my situation. Nor do you know the facts.
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Seriously, you know very well why there were protests for Trayvon Martin. Zimmfat was let go after the murder. The police closed the case. This case started in a local channel before it garnered attention and fucking blew out of proportion. And, during all this time, the fat cunt was free. It took 45 fucking days to send him to jail! And that was thanks to the protests.
And now, people are protesting, because, once again, Zimfatkiller got away with murder. What is it wrong with that??? Does it really bother you that much that an innocent teen death is garnering so much attention? His death will not be in vain. [/quote]
I’m sorry. Let me clarify.
My original opinion of the protest either at the end of the old thread or this one, was misinformed and wrong. I’ve read a few articles and a lot of the quotes I’m seeing are very reasonable. But none of those are the “black life is less important” line of thinking.
I think some of the protestors are misguided, but not all.
That said, I don’t intend to imply that they shouldn’t be protests for Martin if there aren’t for some innocent teen in Chicago. What I’m trying to say is, if the Martin life means this much, so does the other, and there should be national attention, to the same degree, for the other senseless murders.
And I think the reason the inner-city violence is ignored to a large degree is society in general just doesn’t give to single fucks about poor people. It isn’t like trailer park violence gets any national play outside of “cops” TV show either. We just don’t care on a large enough scale.
Unlike some people, I’m actually listening to people here, and softening some of my views on certain aspects.
ANy white person that sees this and thinks “open season” was a horrid pig before this verdict and this isn’t going to prompt them to do anything they weren’t going to do before.
This verdict isn’t going to change the behavior of reasonable people in that manner. Some of the hysteria along these lines by politicians and media gas bags is ridiculous and only serves to further fan the flames.
[quote]Lol. I’m laughing right here. I really don’t think you really care about youth being killed in Chitown. Why are you bringing it up? Why do you fucking care?
[/quote]
Why do I care?
Because it gives politicians a way to violate my rights, and the public goes along with it.
Because they are Americans, and dying needlessly. We all lose out on what they could have contributed to society.
I feel like the war on drugs has a lot of blame for the crime in these areas, and we as a society need to re-think the way we approach these situations.
Because I realize how rich or poor a person is has no bearing on what value they are as a person, and these kids are growing up in a world (inner-city youth) where they significant disadvantages, such as being caught in cross fire, that they shouldn’t have.
Because the cycle of violence is just that, a cycle. Some of these kids are helpless because they literally see no way out. Whether they are right about that or not, the fact is, the world laid out before them isn’t what it should be.
No I don’t cry about these kids dying but it is wrong to think their loss of life is any less tragic than Martin’s.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Stop and cut it out is reserved for children or puppies fighting, if you see two grown adults (dark and rainy) fighting in your upscale neighborhood to the point of someone being seriously injuried or killed more than likely you would intervene. [/quote]
Unless the screams and apparent seriousness of the struggle frightens you into thinking that even intervening as a third party could be life and limb threatening. Which is what happened. Now imagine how the fully mounted guy taking a beating must feel.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
If an officer is engaged in a fight…even if losing…they will not draw their weapons and fire.
[/quote]
lol, where the fuck do you live?
The only time they wouldn’t fire in a fight is when the “suspect” is getting the living shit kicked out of him.
But you can bet your sweet ass if you got the upper hand on an LEO, your ass is more likely than not getting shot…
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Dont you get tired of spending hours a day keeping up with maintaining your internet persona? [/quote]
Tired? I type fast, multi-task and make money else where, while I get you all riled up on this site.
The more I stay here, the more sand you get in your vagina.
You’ll deal.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
If an officer is engaged in a fight…even if losing…they will not draw their weapons and fire.
[/quote]
lol, where the fuck do you live?
The only time they wouldn’t fire in a fight is when the “suspect” is getting the living shit kicked out of him.
But you can bet your sweet ass if you got the upper hand on an LEO, your ass is more likely than not getting shot…[/quote]
Get the upper hand? If you engange one violently you are getting shot.
Evidence shows that TM was the aggressor, if Zimmerman was out for blood he would’ve been out with his gun drawn not in his pocket and reaching for it on the ground as witnesses described it.
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
All emoting aside, when they went for manslaughter, they already had burned through a lot of goodwill.
Other than that:
The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.
Given that noone actually saw what happened and the Stand your Ground laws, what should the verdict have been?
[/quote]
Manslaughter.
I don’t give a fuck. He killed somebody. There was no evidence Trayvon Martin attacked that fat bastard. Lol.
[/quote]
So?
He is not guilty until he can prove otherwise, he is innocent until proven guilty.
In dubio, pro reo.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Do all the white people here live in Chicago? How do they know about the large number of murders if the people there are not complaining?[/quote]
As if skin color makes it impossible to read the news. What does someone being white have to do with it?
As a staunch defender of our Second Amendment protected rights, I read an awful lot about the gun violence in major cities, Chicago is often cited in an attempt to show how “good” gun control laws work. Ie: they don’t.
And secondly the comparisons are:
Black teen shot in Florida: national protests. Black teen shot in Chicago: no national protests, no national outrage, no mention in the media anywhere near the level of the Zimmerman case. Both show the “value of black life in America” if one does.
I think it has much more to do with classism than anything, but what do I know, I’m white. [/quote]
The point is over there ------------------------------------------------------->
EVVERRRYYBODY knows about the black crime level in Chicago. Not just You and the people that post in here. The reason evveerrryyyybbooodddyyy knows is because people were complaining about that too, not that it has anything to do with this case, but why are people acting like black people ignored this when it’s been a popular issue since before Obama got elected. To the point half the black celebrities have mentioned.
I can go back through both threads and see the number of people that said “how come nobody’s saying anything about Chicago”. That is the dumbest and most ignorant statement reiterated in these threads. If anything they should’ve asked if black people have complained before saying they don’t which would still be silly considering it’s been on everything from 60 Minutes to Local Jersey News for over 6 years.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Do all the white people here live in Chicago? How do they know about the large number of murders if the people there are not complaining?[/quote]
As if skin color makes it impossible to read the news. What does someone being white have to do with it?
As a staunch defender of our Second Amendment protected rights, I read an awful lot about the gun violence in major cities, Chicago is often cited in an attempt to show how “good” gun control laws work. Ie: they don’t.
And secondly the comparisons are:
Black teen shot in Florida: national protests. Black teen shot in Chicago: no national protests, no national outrage, no mention in the media anywhere near the level of the Zimmerman case. Both show the “value of black life in America” if one does.
I think it has much more to do with classism than anything, but what do I know, I’m white. [/quote]
The point is over there ------------------------------------------------------->
EVVERRRYYBODY knows about the black crime level in Chicago. Not just You and the people that post in here. The reason evveerrryyyybbooodddyyy knows is because people were complaining about that too, not that it has anything to do with this case, but why are people acting like black people ignored this when it’s been a popular issue since before Obama got elected. To the point half the black celebrities have mentioned.
I can go back through both threads and see the number of people that said “how come nobody’s saying anything about Chicago”. That is the dumbest and most ignorant statement reiterated in these threads. If anything they should’ve asked if black people have complained before saying they don’t which would still be silly considering it’s been on everything from 60 Minutes to Local Jersey News for over 6 years.[/quote]
Again: the reaction by poiticos and media gas bags isn’t equal. The national outrage isn’t equal. You can’t even compare the two…
Should I type it again?