i am very meticulous about my training, everything is well documented and i follow a pre written periodized program to the “T.” i pay careful attention to tut, sets/reps, total volume, recovery, rest periods, etc.
im curious to know what the vets here do as far as training while on a heavy dose of androgens as opposed to while off. how much do you increase the volume, if at all? if you were to specialize in a bodypart what changes would you make? etc…
I have learned through experience for myself, to change nothing! Yes increase your caloric intake of protiens and such but as far as training goes, while on I don’t increase my weights dramatically or number of exercises and sets. And I do get the same gains in size that I used to get when I did.
Instead I focus on correct form and technique, and I vary the speed of the positive and negative. I basically try to concentrate on “feeling” each muscle work. The reason for this is simply that when I go “off” I don’t want to feel beat up in the joints and tendons from lifting too heavy or too often. When on Steroids you can’t feel the wear and tear that you are incuring on your body as much as when you go off. Having to have elbow surgery along with shoulder, forearm and knee problems after training heavy with increased frequency during a cycle last year taught me that lesson. -Its not worth it.
I would maintain a high protein diet relatively lowering carbs gradually until you feel you have the sustained energy levels to pull you through an intense workout. And workout with higher reps to compensate for lost of strenth.
On the other hand, I read that the Oak would not even train on his off season, but then again thats Arnold>
As for when on alot of androgens. Dense nutrient foods and as much as you can eat a day+supplements(if you can afford it). I believe in a little thing that when focusing on weak points when on heavy androgens. Work it out everyday for a short and intense 30min period leaving your regular bodyparts for the remainder of your workout. Doing this at one point gave me 14inch arms to 17inch in a 6wk peroid with this method.
up weights across the board by 25% while switching to a three day split while bulking.
drago are you suggesting a 3 on 1 off protocol?
I’m still trying to figure out why people overeat while on cycles. Can someone help me out here?? Extra calories does not result in more gains. Extra calories results in higher bodyfat. And who wants to get fatter?? Not me. Upping the protein is of course expected, but upping extra carbs and fat is not needed. You only need enough calories to grow and that’s it. As far as training goes, it depends on that persons goals. I try to add weight to each exercise each week. Even if it’s only 2 1/2lbs. I also increase intensity, volume and do more negative reps. I’ll switch it up every few weeks and do lighter weights for more reps but at a very high intensity.
Tren Freak
I think the blanket recommendation to eat more stems from the fact that many people undereat. If you’re undereating, you’re missing out on lbm gains.
But I agree, if you know what you’re doing, there’s no need to add a bunch of fat during the cycle.
Personally, I’d rather overeat slightly than undereat slightly.
I think this is really a good question because when you really think about it no one reacts the same way to anabolic steroids or training, therefore one could imply that what applies to some may not apply to others. I think though that you have to experiment with different approaches to really, tryly find out whether or not that method of training or cycling is best for you. Personally, I find that I my joints hurt quite a bit after an intensive, and heavy cycle. I’ve adjusted my training and cycling since and the results have been much better. Thesubjectivity of this question makes it a difficult one to answer because there is no one right answer.
I forgot to talk about diet, which in my opinion is the most important factor. I up my protein to 400mgs and keep a somewhat clean diet. I agree with Tren-Freak that more calories is not necessarily better.
interesting, we have quite a few varying opinions. diet (as it should be) seems to be the most important factor for most of us. tren-freak said it best, you dont have to over eat like rosie odonell at a krispy kreme party in order to build quality lbm. for the record i plan to follow massive eating guidelines.
as far as training goes i guess it will take experimentation on my part. although i havent done a mass cycle before, i am confident that with the increased recovery ability from the aas i will be able to handle more volume than usual. typically i follow a pretty low volume routine anyhow(for a bodybuilder).
i am going to continue to train for strength pre-cycle, that way when i start my hypertrophy/mass cycle i will be able to handle more weight and i will be in a relativley detrained state.
i will also have two weeks off of work during christmas. so i plan to really hit it hard during this time. perhaps dividing my workouts into two halves and training twice per day. no more than 30 min sessions though.
hope we can generate some more opinion, perhaps t-mag can do an article on this subject.
I was watching a Canadian Broadcast Corporation TV news program actually last night, and they were interviewing some sports nutrition researcher from I think Toronto. He was studying the protien needs of high performance (olympic) athletes’ intake of protien vs performance gains. Apparently the findings of these peer reviewed studies are that most athletes are actually taking in far more protien than their bodies are actually using. I would like to get my hands on this study once it is published, The implications of these findings could be that a lot of the excess protien that we try to cram in could be passing directly through our systems and getting flushed down the toilet. If this is true, what a waste!
research has been saying that for years. however practical experience says otherwise…
dude i could have told you that, i’ll shit 6+ times a day sometimes.lol
Ever thought that just possibly your “practical experience” is the placebo effect? 400 grams of protein a day is worth a lot of money, liver,and kidney damage just so you can “feel better” and “think” you are going to grow more because of it.
have you read any of berardi’s work?
actually that was a dumb question because i already know the answer. if you have read any of jb’s work here on t-mag in regards to liver and kidney damage you would never make such a statement.
please give these a read and then get back to me.
Excess protein DOES NOT cause kidney damage unless you have pre-existing problems. If you give a dialysis patient 400grams of protein a day, then maybe, but not a healthy athlete.
Think about it; if our ancestors couldn’t eat lots of protein without getting sick what would happen to predominantly meat-eating cultures (like the eskimo). They’d all be dead!
And protein doesn’t necessarily need to be used for synthesis of muscle, it is also a caloric source. Of all the macronutrients, proteins are the least likely to be converted to body fat so it makes sense to use slightly more proteins and less carbs if you want to stay lean. Slightly overestimating on your protein needs will also help prevent muscle loss while exercising intensely.
When ‘on’ I keep calories 500 above maintenance. When cutting, I simply add in cardio and eat more fats and less carbs. If I am mass building no cardio and I eat more carbs and less fats. Proteins around 1gm/lb when off, 1.5gm/lb when ‘on’.
To P-dog, I have read these articles and other research that does not find any liver and kidney damage for protein intake of 2.8 grams/kg. This is roughly 1.24 gram per lb.
Berardi’s work states recomendation of athletes comsuming greater than 2.0 grams /kg. He does not however list an upper limit of protien intake he just state intakes higher than 2.0 grams /kg which is roughly 2 grams / 2.25 lbs, or a 200 lb individual comsuming 178 grams of protein. I have always tried to consume at least my weight in protien, or a little more. I do believe however that consuming 400 grams of protein per day or 4.5 grams / kg for a 200 lb athlete is excessive. I was unable to find any research to show damage at these levels of intake but I would think that the cost of eating this way on a regular basis, and toilet paper, would be a little high. The theory of dimishing returns comes into play here.
And to Archaic, nice argument about eskimos, Its just too bad that they have by far the shortest life spans of all Canadians, don’t believe me, look it up at statsCanada.