if you read the second article you will se that JB said that you simply cannot find any published studies that show that protein is in any way related to kidney or liver failure in healthy individuals.
although jb is not “GOD” he is close enough for me.
I already stated that there is good evidece showing that a modestly high intake of protien is safe. What I am saying is that 400 g /day may not be, because there is no published, peer reviewed studies ( that i have seen ) yet that concludes this high an intake is safe. In addition I have to question if this protein would even be efficiently used, which I doubt and as I said, I think a lot of it would be wasted. GB may be god, but I still didn’t find anything in his articles recomending that high an intake
your right there is no studies either way, high or low. personally i dont think that 400g is excessive for a 200lb man. that is 2g per lb which imo is a good #. especially if on androgens.
one point i want to make is that, lets say for the sake of argument that high protein intake is bad for our kidneys in some way. dont you think that the overall bodybuilding lifestyle/diet far outweighs any negatives from the protein consumption?
i guess what im trying to say is that i feel a hell of a lot more healthy with my diet which includes 1.5-2grams per lb of protein than if i were to eat the typical american diet of fast food and krispy kremes.
if we dig deep we can find something wrong with everything that we eat.
You just made my point. You said: “personally i dont think that 400g is excessive for a 200lb man. that is 2g per lb which imo is a good #. especially if on androgens”.
The key word is “think”. If you think it will help you get better gains, it probably will, but maybe more due to the placebo effect.
Oh and how “average Americans” do you know who would typically consume 400 grams of fat in a day? 400 grams of anything is a lot and probably won’t all get absorbed and probably will be more taxing on your system. I guess it all comes down to risk/benifit ratio and the law of diminishing returns i.e an infinite increase in amount of protein consumed will not infinitely increase your gains.
JB is MY god.
Thought this question has taken a little turn. I will chime in. I change nothing about my workout routine when “on” or “off”…I do take a week off of working out immediately after completing a cycle.
Obviously my eating habits do change, but only slightly. As for overeating, I am guilty of being one of those people while on a cycle. I eat like a horse, then clean it up a lot more when I’m off.
That’s just what I have found best for me —and easiest.
to prisoner#22:
If you can prove to me that the leading cause of death to eskimos is kidney damage due to excessive protein consumption, then do it.
it’s probably the whale fat popsicles they eat. jmho
prisoner, i am experienced enough with my body to know the difference between the placebo effect and the real effect. if you choose to believe me or not is up to you.
Actually the whale fat that they eat is good for them. It contains a lot of omega 3s and 6s. Eskimos have some of the lowest rates of heart disease.
To: Archaic proving that rates of kidney failure in eskimos are higher than in general population is not something I have to do. I was merely pointing out that your premise to your argument is flawed.
To Merlin:
what is your rationale behind taking a week off training following a cycle? I am trying this myself but am just lowering the volume and intensity. The theory I believe is that after a cycle, for a period you have decreased hormones in your system. So when you workout you are breaking down muscle but have no hormones to repair it. Therefore it may be wise not to break down any muscle until T levels rise. Does this sound good?
That’s more or less how I feel, I just think about it differently. I pay very close attention to my diet post-cycle since I feel this is the easiest place to fuck up your gains. I am a lot more strict post-cycle than when I’m ‘on’ until my T-levels are back up to par.
For working out with lowered T-levels after cycle, chances of making any gains is nil and chances of overtraining are easy.
This is just what I’ve discovered about my progress through past experiences.
We all know, of course, that everyone responds differently to different things and there is no “right” answer to very many things at all in training.