Training Myths List

[quote]michael2507 wrote:
Not trying to flame you, but I’d say it’s up to those making outlandish claims to back them up with some sort of proof.

Given the statements of a variety of authors on this site such as David Barr, Dr. Ryan and CT (see the Chest Roundtable link on page 2) and many other posters on this thread as well as the total lack of any evidence up to now, yes, I guess it is time to produce it. All the more as you claim that it is clear cut, abundant and easy to find - what prevents you from posting the evidence and ending the discussion once and for all?

[/quote]

i just know what my doctor told me, according to what he saw in my x-rays. if he knew about it, then i’m sure there’s info out there available to the general public. if you want to know so badly, why aren’t you looking yourself? i know all i want to know about it; the subject doesn’t interest me that much. i just know what my problem is, and what i have to do to manage it. i just mentioned it in this thread because i know from personal experience that it’s real.

[quote]Mykayl wrote:

well, i give you props for being an educated professional. that still doesn’t explain why my chiropractor told me what he did, and why he seemed to know so much about it. i still have a problem that you’re trying to tell me isn’t real because you haven’t read enough about it.[/quote]

No offense, but I would NEVER…not once…not even for a second…believe a patient’s word of what their doctor said second hand without any other facts considering some of the wrong info I hear repeated from patients daily when something completely different is staring at me from their charts. We are specifically taught that most patients only retain and listen to about 20% of what is stated by their doctor. They actually understand even less unless they have a background in biology. That is why we are told to repeat info several times if the goal is full understanding. With that in mind, excuse me if I don’t believe that your doctor claimed you expanded your rib cage by doing pullovers.

[quote]

and how the fuck did you get the notion that my type of porphyria was erythropoietic after reading my profile? i thought you were a physiologist? even my brother, who’s an RN, knows the difference between erythropoietic and hepatic porphyrias.[/quote]

I haven’t read your profile and don’t care about your profile. You seem to be very self conscious about your appearance and also believe that everyone who disagrees with you somehow is looking at your pictures and judging you. That points to a different problem that we aren’t about to get into.

I will say that if a patient started claiming distortions in bone in cartilage were occurring and it was the first time I was seeing them, I would test them for the possibility. That is what you should understand above all else. I don’t know you and don’t have your medical history in front of me. Your written word and belief in chest expansion is all anyone can see. No one would make a definitive diagnosis on that alone unless the symptoms were textbook for some ailment.

[quote]

if you didn’t care about my claims to a more efficient way of doing things, you wouldn’t be putting so much effort into trying to make me look bad. if it’s not important to you, then why the fuck did you even bother to bring it up in a non-related conversation?[/quote]

Because it wasn’t unrelated. It could very well be related and like written above, if you made that much of an issue about cartilage changes at an initial appointment, you would probably be tested for it.

[quote]
i said i would provide results pics at an appropriate time (every 6 months of training); you should be happy with that and shut the fuck up. you can speculate all you want when you see the pics, but until then, you should keep it to yourself, cuz you still don’t have all the facts.

this shit ain’t over yet.

^…[1]

I don’t care about your pics and don’t want to see your pics. Does this surprise you?


  1. /quote ↩︎

[quote]Mykayl wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Mykayl wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Also, mykayl, erythropoietic porphyria can cause changes in cartilage and bone. It may be something to discuss with your doctor unless you already have.

i have variegate porphyria, which is hepatic, not erythropoietic. the only things that get deformed are my liver and my skin, and neither deformity caused my ribcage expansion.

i’m going to believe what my chiropractor told me because he’s a licensed doctor (a DC–Doctor of Chiropractic), not some fool in an internet discussion thread. i’ve been reading your arguments over ribcage expansion, and they’re rediculous. there’s plenty of medical documentation of people experiencing ribcage expansion from a number of causes, including bad exercise. it’s up to you to research that shit before you try to bark everyone else down.

If there was so much documentation, it would be very easy to present. You can’t present it for one very solid reason.

you’re the one claiming to be a doctor; if anyone has access to that stuff, it would be you. it’s not my job to educate you on such matters, but it’s yours to keep current on them. if my doctor says it’s real, then maybe you should go back to school.[/quote]

I doubt your doctor told you that you expanded your rib cage by lifting weights. I think you should bring this up again to your primary care physician with that specific question asked, “did I expand my rib cage by lifting weights and did the cartilage get stretched out?”

Get back to us.

[quote]Mykayl wrote:
more crap [/quote]

We all know you are full of shit. You claim your arms went from 20" back to 13" and you don’t have a single picture of yourself with big arms?

You make outrageous claims all over the website and now you are claiming pullovers expanded your ribcage? I don’t believe it.

I think you are slightly touched in the head and I hope you get your physical and mental health issues under control and I hope the naive guys that come to this website don’t listen to you.

There has been mention of the authors of this site stating rib cage expansion is a myth, but here is a link to one such article:

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_142metal

[quote]
Heavy Metal
Q&A with the King of Strength Coaches
by Ian King

Pullovers for a Big Chest?

Q: What do you think of dumbbell pullovers? Can they really expand the rib cage or is that just bunk? If it is bunk, are pullovers still worthwhile for other reasons?

A: Dumbbell pullovers? Nice exercise, but one I use sparingly. Can they expand the rib cage? That’s a question I’ve often asked myself. I haven’t seen anything to support this yet, but it would be nice if they could. It’s unlikely, however.

So are they still worthwhile for other reasons? Of course. Just because there isn’t likely a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow doesn’t mean the rainbow is useless! (Sorry, I can’t believe I just wrote that, either.) This exercise has its place but probably not as the cornerstone of your program.[/quote]

Her eis another source for reference:

[quote]
he following article is from the August/September issue of Scientific Bodybuilding Journal.

Myth Busters
Rib Cage and Hip Expansion
By Vince Martin, P.T.

Popular belief holds that, through proper exercise, one can change the volume of (expand) their ribcage. Usually, this is accomplished by the performance of two exercises used in combination. These exercises are the “breathing squat” and the cross-bench dumbbell pullover. Through diligent performance of these exercises, along with the continued performance of the remainder of the weight training routine, trainees would experience significant expansion of their thoracic cages. Or would they?

Here’s how the typical rib cage expansion routine went: First, the breathing squats were performed. The breathing squats, which entailed twenty-rep sets of squats with several deep breaths between each repetition were supersetted with cross bench dumbbell pullovers, which provided the “stretch” for the rib cage. The combined effect of the deep breathing and stretching supposedly provided the desired effect of enlargement. Now for the truth behind this concept.

The ribs are connected to the vertebral column at the rear of the body. They are formed to connect, or articulate, in a certain way and at a certain angle. In front, the ribs are connected via cartilage to the sternum, or breastbone. Various texts in the past have alluded to the “stretching” of the cartilage as the means by which the rib cage is expanded. First of all, the “length” of the cartilage by which the ribs are connected to the ribcage is unalterable. No amount of deep breathing or stretching can alter this predetermined attachment. Second, even if it were possible to alter the cartilaginous attachment of the ribs to the sternum, this would mean that the manner in which the ribs articulate with the vertebrae posteriorly would have to be altered. Again, there is a pre-set limit to which the ribs can correctly and functionally articulate with the vertebrae. Therefore, this cannot (and must not) be changed.

However, weight training can alter the skeletal structure. The points of attachment on the bones where the muscles connect actually enlarge slightly due to the forces exerted by the muscles at these attachments. This slight enlargement of the points of muscle attachment does not equate to any significant skeletal enlargement such as rib cage expansion.

So what provided this apparent rib cage enlargement? The answer is found in the word “apparent”. The rib cage did not expand. Rather, as a function of the training routine in general, the musculature of the trunk became developed. This resulted in a much “thicker” look. The trainees of old simply attributed their results to the wrong reason.

There are some dangers inherent in attempting to expand the rib cage, however, especially with regard to the performance of cross-bench dumbbell pullovers. This exercise emphases “stretch”. This typically mandates arching the back excessively over the bench, and reaching back excessively with the arms while holding a dumbbell. The back arching can lead to irritation of the joints of the spine, dislocation of a costal cartilage, or a dysfunction of the ribs where they articulate with the rib cage. Stretching excessively with the upper arms can overstretch and damage the ligaments of the shoulder joint. So, not only is expansion of the ribcage impossible, it is also potentially hazardous to attempt to do so.[/quote]

Finally, I would not consider what what one chiropractor told me to be the be all end all to truth and my sole source for fact finding. Chiropractors are considered to be charlatans by many people. Don’t overlook that a chiropractor has a vested interest in telling you anything that will make you believe you need to keep seeing them.

[quote]kellyc wrote:
What are you talking about? I was the one who brought up the fallacy of muscle memory. I wasn’t talking about burnout sets I was talking about the idea that muscle will build back more quickly the second time after a long layoff.
[/quote]

I am going to have to add my chalk mark for muscle memory being a fact. Having been in and out of the gym since I started lifting at 16, I know for a fact I gain the muscle I once had faster than I gain muscle I never had.

While my testimony is only first person and not backed on anything other than my personal experience, it is my testimony, nonetheless.

Can you provide any sources backing the claim muscle memory is a fallacy? I am sure I can find some backing it up.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
kellyc wrote:
What are you talking about? I was the one who brought up the fallacy of muscle memory. I wasn’t talking about burnout sets I was talking about the idea that muscle will build back more quickly the second time after a long layoff.

I am going to have to add my chalk mark for muscle memory being a fact. Having been in and out of the gym since I started lifting at 16, I know for a fact I gain the muscle I once had faster than I gain muscle I never had.

While my testimony is only first person and not backed on anything other than my personal experience, it is my testimony, nonetheless.

Can you provide any sources backing the claim muscle memory is a fallacy? I am sure I can find some backing it up. [/quote]

Muscle memory is real. Anyone who has been in the gym for years knows this. That is why someone can get injured, lose muscle mass, avoid the gym for months, yet come back and gain everything right back in weeks.

In my opinion the biggest training myth is the myth of overtraining. It might affect about 1% of lifters, but for most of the other 99% it makes for an easy excuse to skip a workout.

Dumb Friends: Hey, come drink beer with us tonight.

Dumb Guy: I have to go to the gym and lift.

Dumb Friends: Come on.

Dumb Guy: I guess it would be okay to skip, I don’t want to overtrain.

Muscle Memory = Fact

Rib Expansion = Fact…HA HA, whatever…what a load of crap that is. Especially the statement that by 22 it stops. How about the fact that the human body keeps growing until around 22 and then begins to stop. If between 16 and 17 I grew and my doc asked me if my ribcage had expanded because of pullovers I should have had his license revoked. My response would have been, hey dumbass, maybe I am GROWING!! So of course my ribcage would appear to have expanded.

I started training again in March of last year after a 13 year self abusive layoff. I was hugging my wife last night and she stepped back and said kinda chuckling “you are bigger now than were when you quit working out last time”.
I trained like an animal for 3 years last time.

Muscle memory or whatever other term you want to attach to it is real. Yes it’s true that I already had knowledge that undoubtedly helped, but there’s no way that that accounts for all of it.

  1. The only people that get results from bodypart splits are on steroids.

  2. Full-body training is best for you, your elderly neighbor, her pubescent grandson, and probably your dog, unless you are a world-class bodybuilder.

  3. Direct arm training is useless- its effects are but a subset of those experienced by compound lifts.

[quote]Mykayl wrote:
Professor X wrote:
well, i give you props for being an educated professional. that still doesn’t explain why my chiropractor told me what he did, and why he seemed to know so much about it.
^…[1]

A chiropractor also told me to stop doing military presses and start doing laterals instead, and to stop deadlifting because it would leave me with a bad back for the rest of my life. He also told me that I had a fused bone in my back, and that I had to curve the upper part of my spine more or the upper back/neck area would soon collapse. He seemed to know so much about it. The MD laughed at his creative conditions.

Take anything a chiropractor says with a grain of salt.


  1. /quote ↩︎

[quote]Mykayl wrote:
michael2507 wrote:
Not trying to flame you, but I’d say it’s up to those making outlandish claims to back them up with some sort of proof.

Given the statements of a variety of authors on this site such as David Barr, Dr. Ryan and CT (see the Chest Roundtable link on page 2) and many other posters on this thread as well as the total lack of any evidence up to now, yes, I guess it is time to produce it. All the more as you claim that it is clear cut, abundant and easy to find - what prevents you from posting the evidence and ending the discussion once and for all?

i just know what my doctor told me, according to what he saw in my x-rays. if he knew about it, then i’m sure there’s info out there available to the general public. if you want to know so badly, why aren’t you looking yourself? i know all i want to know about it; the subject doesn’t interest me that much. i just know what my problem is, and what i have to do to manage it. i just mentioned it in this thread because i know from personal experience that it’s real.[/quote]

No evidence. Not that I’m surprised…

:wink:

[quote]KombatAthlete wrote:

  1. The only people that get results from bodypart splits are on steroids.

  2. Full-body training is best for you, your elderly neighbor, her pubescent grandson, and probably your dog, unless you are a world-class bodybuilder.

  3. Direct arm training is useless- its effects are but a subset of those experienced by compound lifts.
    [/quote]

I am gonna have to wsecond that post. What he said ^^^^.

inre to the overtraining myth, I have mixed feelings about that. There is a point where results just don’t measure up to the effort put in. That to me is overtraining. Finding that sweet spot is tough and very individual and cyclical. Don’t really think overtraining is a great name for this though…

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
kellyc wrote:
What are you talking about? I was the one who brought up the fallacy of muscle memory. I wasn’t talking about burnout sets I was talking about the idea that muscle will build back more quickly the second time after a long layoff

I am going to have to add my chalk mark for muscle memory being a fact. Having been in and out of the gym since I started lifting at 16, I know for a fact I gain the muscle I once had faster than I gain muscle I never had.

While my testimony is only first person and not backed on anything other than my personal experience, it is my testimony, nonetheless.

Can you provide any sources backing the claim muscle memory is a fallacy? I am sure I can find some backing it up.

Muscle memory is real. Anyone who has been in the gym for years knows this. That is why someone can get injured, lose muscle mass, avoid the gym for months, yet come back and gain everything right back in weeks.[/quote]

Maybe the memory isn’t actually in the muscle but in the nervous system. If it were in the muscle, exactly where would this memory be stored?

TNT

[quote]TNT-CDN wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Muscle memory is real. Anyone who has been in the gym for years knows this. That is why someone can get injured, lose muscle mass, avoid the gym for months, yet come back and gain everything right back in weeks.

Maybe the memory isn’t actually in the muscle but in the nervous system. If it were in the muscle, exactly where would this memory be stored?

TNT

[/quote]

I have extra slots where I can just add more when needed. You’ve gotta be kiddin with this question man.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Mykayl wrote:
more crap

We all know you are full of shit. You claim your arms went from 20" back to 13" and you don’t have a single picture of yourself with big arms?

You make outrageous claims all over the website and now you are claiming pullovers expanded your ribcage? I don’t believe it.

I think you are slightly touched in the head and I hope you get your physical and mental health issues under control and I hope the naive guys that come to this website don’t listen to you.[/quote]

the angle of rib articulation is permanently altered, in a manner not consistent with natural growth, and the cartilage is permanently stretched, in a manner not consistent with natural growth. my chiropractor wasn’t the only doctor to point that out to me, and it was in my mid-20’s. it was pointed out to me again when i was x-rayed in ‘06 after my second car accident, and again in 05’ for chest pains and an unrelated back injury.

am i supposed to believe all you fucktards, or am i supposed to believe numerous qualified medical professionals, looking at different x-rays at different times in my adult life? i see all sorts of speculations about why it isn’t possible, but no qualified medical testimonies.

professor X still hasn’t told us his qualifications, despite all his implications. how is he qualified to determine whether or not ribcage expansion is possible? is he an orthopedic surgeon with a clinical knowledge of what is or isn’t a natural angle of rib articulation, or any other medical professional qualified to make that assessment? what exactly is his degree, what exactly is his speciality, and how does it qualify him to tell anyone that ribcage expansion isn’t possible? i see all sorts of political maneuvering on his part to try to make me look bad, but i don’t see how he’s professionally qualified to tell me i’m wrong about ANYTHING i’ve said. i haven’t seen any hardcore evidence that ribcage expansion isn’t possible (or that i don’t have such a condition), nor have i seen any proof that it’s impossible to gain 10 pounds a month consistently for a period of 1 year or more, resulting in gargantuan size. nor can anyone here prove that i didn’t achieve such a thing in my past. nor can anyone prove that i’m not in the process of doing it again, cuz i haven’t yet posted result pics that would give anyone an accurate idea of what’s going on in my life. absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

whether or not i’m a case of authentic ribcage expansion is irrelevant to this discussion. i may not be providing “proofs” that ribcage expansion is real, but no one here is providing any solid proof that it isn’t possible. i see all sorts of bullshit claims of medical expertise here, but nothing to back it up. all i’m doing is speaking from personal experience, which is a hell of a lot better than some asshole telling me that it takes a minimum of 10 years to get 20" arms without roids, which i know to be absolutely false, both by personal experience, epxeriences of people in my own family, and historical examples of natural bodybuilders doing it in less time.

some people DO shit, while others just SHOVEL shit, and i see a lot of stable-hands here. you can all paint it gold, but it’s still just bullshit. you all say “prove it all right now”, but i give you a more difficult challenge: “prove me wrong”. none of you can, so you should all shut the fuck up now.

To loosely quote Al Shades:

“I am immortal and refuse to acknowledge otherwise until I see proof of my own death.”