I trained with a jeet kune do instructor for 6 months before I moved from my last residence and it proved to me that everything I studied in Aikido and Karate was somewhat inneffectual when I had to strike someone that was conditioned to take abuse. Also I had to get used to taking a few shots to the face once and a while which doesn’t happen very often traditional training or sport(point)karate. You might want to check out some jeet kune do or perhaps Bando (burmese striking art).
Please understand that Jeet Kune Do is a training philosophy, NOT a style.
I would trust someone who told me that they “believe and incorporate” the Jeet Kune Do philosophy rather than the “I train Jeet Kune Do”.
But so that I don’t entirely hijack this thread: I believe that MMA is the way to go.
I began my training in Karate back in '97. Ko and I got to train with someone who was a black belt in the American Freestyle system (system begun by Joe Lewis, former student of Bruce Lee). During this time, I began boxing training. Soon after, I dropped Karate. And I won’t go back.
I love boxing. But believe that to be effective in combat you need a sound “ground game” too. Therefore, MMA.
It’s not the style, it’s the individual. The top 1% of any martial style could kick 99% of the practitioners of other martial forms. It’s YOUR ability to dominate speed, distance, timing, range; YOUR kinesic sense, visual reaction time, strength, power, and balance that determine the outcome of combat. Arguing about martial styles is like arguing about favorite cars, they all have strong and weak points. Do you want to be combatively effective? You need to learn all ranges of combat: kicking, punching, trapping, grappling (standing and on the ground), projectile weapons, throwing weapons, flexible weapons, knifes, swords, sticks, etc. Pick a great teacher, any art, learn the art and move on and learn an art that emphases your weaknesses. If you train a kicking art learn grappling, go to a boxing gym, etc. I have been practicing martial arts for 25+ years and still don’t think I’ve reached my potential; I still continue to learn and grow daily, please don’t get caught up in one SYSTEM being the best. My instructor used to say “what’s the best vehicle a Porsche 928 or a dugout canoe? The answer, of course, is it depends where you are. Freeways, I’m going 928 every day; Amazon jungle, got to go canoe. Patricia, good call Jeet Kune Do is a phylosophy: “absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and make everything uniquely your own” and “having no way as way, no limitation as limitation.” Jun Fan is Bruce Lee’s physical martial art.
I train in Tae Kwon Do. Alotta fancy shit, but alotta good stuff too.
I agree with Sturat. If you want to learn to fight with your hands you’ll get the best bang for the buck with boxing. I’ve yet to see any martial arts trained fighter compare to a boxer when it comes to hands. If you want to fight with your hands and feet go with muay thai. To fight on the ground go with Judo or brazilian jujitsu. I guess if you could find a really good MMA class and instructor you might be able to learn all 3 together but it’s probably tough to find a good credible class and instructor. I spent a good 5 years back in my teens and early 20’s in a traditional martial arts class and decided to try kickboxing. I soon realized i had been wasting my time for the previous 5 years as boxers and kickboxers with 3 months of experience were whipping me all over the place! The same could probably be said of most stand up martial arts styles when it comes to ground combat against a fighter trained in judo, brazilian jujitsu or wrestling.
Another interesting thread.
Sturat- your comments here are most informative. Thanks.
Patricia’s remarks about JKD being a “philosophy” vs a training style got me thinking the most.
I think that’s what turns a lot of people off (or on to) a specific MA- i.e. How much of the practice each session is devoted to developing the mind, or going through specific “customs” of the art, vs actual practical physical training.
I myself have only ever boxed, and I was drawn to it by it’s immediate practicality.
So I’d like to hear what you guys think about this whole “training /philosophy” thing. Is this why Ninja’s are so dangerous? Does being able to get into the “Crane stance” really help you whip his ass?
It seems from the replies so far, this is not the case, as the “Ancient Asian Tradition-Based” MA’s (e.g. Various Kung Fu forms, Karate) have been relatively shunned here. Was this what Bruce Lee was trying to get away from with JKD?
Bottom line- Is it really important to embrace a philosophy/mindset to be best prepared for combat? SRS
What exactly is MMA? I think i’ll start with judo, but i have to find a good teacher here on LI. How often do you gusy train or take lessons? 2 or 3 days a week? I’ve got some pretty good reflexes (from sprawling so much when someone shoots on me.)Judo then muyai tai or regular boxing is def what im going to do. ill start with judo though.
Thanks for all the input guy (and gals.)
Bobo,
I depends on your goal. Are you training to survive in a life-threatening experience? If so, nothing is better than Tim Larkin’s TFT seminar. Check out the TFT article on my website for information and a link to his site.
If you are training for sport, Brazilian Jui-Jitsu is great because you start learning techniques on your back, on the floor. Over time, you slowly work to the standing position (this is completely opposite of most traditional (i.e. worthless) martial art styles). Since most fights end up on the ground, you better be an awesome ground fighter. BJJ teaches you this. That is one of the main reasons why the Gracie’s have done so well - they are incredible ground/close quarters fighters. There was a Gracie camp in one of the gyms I worked at in Chicago and they are well run.
What exactly is braz. ju jitzu. What does it involve?
SRS, good thoughts.
I’ll try to answer this somewhat here. Bruce Lee felt that traditional martial arts were being weighted down by the very history and traditions they were “born” from.
Also, most or some of the styles have been created by a former student, now “master” who believes that they can “make their mark” by “improving” upon the traditional style they themself began in. Take a look at all the various karate styles, for instance. The style I’m from, Ryobu-Kai is a combination of two other styles.
To some extent, I believe that it’s important to learn a traditiional style. However, don’t start thinking that will be THE style or the end of all of your evolvement into a combat fighter. Just because you have a black belt in “such and such style” doesn’t mean your learning stops. Afterall, in the “old” days in Asia, it took years and years of training before you became a certified “Master” and you usually studied one style during a lifetime.
A traditional style is only the beginning. I believe it’s good to learn about the rich history and philosophical beliefs behind traditional martial arts. I certainly don’t believe in “black belt factories” (I think they simplify, dumb-down martial arts). After that, learn the other fighting arts that will add to your arsenal. As Bruce Lee believed (and was stated above): " absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and make everything uniquely your own"
He incorporated boxing, and other “forms” into his fighting. He studied with Joon Rhee and other masters of various martial arts.
We’re not necessarily “shunning” traditional forms. It’s just that they are not really effective for combat fighting. That’s where the more hybrid forms come into play. MMA is just a effective fighting method. Proven in the ring.
Sorry to cut this short, but I wanted to throw this in first. I’ve got to go train now!
Consider ‘strategy’ rather than philosophy. Compare it to weight training; understanding the biomechanics of training and the biochemistry of diet helps practical application immensely.
Absolutely correct with the JKD being a philosophy not a style. I’ve read the Tao of JKD and a number of other books about Bruce Lee. One thing he always insisted was that JKD was not a form it was a set of guidlines that could be followed.
True JKD is different for every person depending on their experience, their skills, their physical attributes. Too many martial arts overlook this and try and train everyone in the same way. Judo, wrestling and boxing avoid this. Yes, everyone learns the same techniques but you’re not expected to necessarily use what other people use. When doing Judo I realized fairly quickly that I could never throw people the way my instructor did, he was short and had a chest like an oil drum. I’m not built like that, so I looked around and found sucessful fighters built the way I am. I then tried to utilize what they did, lo and behold my results improved almost instantly.
Ensure that whatever you choose is correct for you. If you’re not willing to hit and be hit don’t box, if you don’t like getting close to people don’t do Judo. If you want to be sucessful at fighting get over those two problems. Whatever you do ensure that it’s right for you, for your philosophy, your body etc.
STU
Okay, okay, now I’m actually being helpful and all you Freques need to look the other way while I’m doing it! Bobo, babykins, I train at Matt Serra’s academy in East Meadow and he’s just opened up a school in Huntington. BJJ OWNS! www.serrajitsu.com Chequeitowt.
MBE: “Furry, friendly, feral. Since 1444.”
Ko, despite your ‘20+ years of martial arts experience’, you don’t know a damn thing about Hapkido.
This isn’t just blind devotion. I’ve been around the block as well. The virtue of this particular style, and the reason I like it so much, is that it’s an amalgamation of the best parts of other styles.
Kali1’s point was particularly relevant, however. Boxing is a simple discipline. Hapkido isn’t. A comparison at the one year mark tells you nothing.
sturat:
'Twas I who made that comment. I adhere to TKD only insofar as certain kicking techniques. Rules, I don’t care for. Point sparring is a waste of time.
I spend 45 minutes three days a week with a heavy bag refining punching and kicking techniques because I know as you pointed out, done poorly, they won’t do a damn thing against a determined adversary. Done correctly… that’s a different story.
DI
Brazilian jiu-jitsu is a martial art that emphasizes control and submissions on the ground. It gained notoriety when Royce Gracie dominated a couple of the first UFCs using pure BJJ, beating many opponents off his back - in his “guard” - a position long thought to be necessarily disadvantageous.
Jiu-Jitsu plus folk or freestyle wrestling, plus a dash of Greco-Roman wrestling and/or Judo constitutes the grappling game almost in its entirety.
Also, not to dash your enthusiasm, but I think that while Judo can be excellent “icing on the cake,” I think it’s perhaps the least effective of the practical martial arts. It will teach you balance, some upper body wrestling techniques, and a few submissions, but in general, I think its techniques rely too much on the gi.
My advice would be to head to Renzo’s AND to the local boxing gym.
One more thing…Monkey Boy, I told you Din was gonna take care of business!
Don’t worry; once Matt learns to wrestle, he’ll be a true terror!
Check out Straight Blast Gym N.Y.
Great place to train everything at once and compete or just train in either boxing,kickboxing,wrestling,jiujitsu,NHB
Yeah Jason, were you and I watching the same fight? I was sort of in the audience at the time , perhaps my vantage was a bit off. If I remember correctly, Din spent the entire fight evading a ground match with Matt. No clean shots were landed, and the decision was reversed post-fight. For some inexplicable reason, the UFC does not seem to dig Matt. I would, without any excuses, give you (and Din) recognition for the win if it were anything resembling a victory.
MBE: “Impartially Impractical Imp since 1982.”
Okay, basically this is what i want to do.
I get into a fight. I want to be able to knock his ass down. Hold him down and beat the shit out of him or atleats let him know i mean business. Now… Which of these forms comes closest to what i described =)