Trainers Talking Shop

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[quote]ChristopherWells wrote:
It’s been a long time eh? Forgot all about this thread, come back, and there are a couple of posts I want to chime-in on. Good to hear from you again Chris.[/quote]

Same here, man. You know, there’s a very good chance that you have the coolest[/i] gym name around. Good stuff.

[quote]We use kettlebell snatch ladders in a similar way for conditioning, but not really EDT:
The weight used varies.
5R/5L - 15seconds rest
10R/10L - 15seconds rest
15R/15L - 15seconds rest
20R/20L[/quote]

Speaking of ladders, a buddy of mine turned me on to breathing ladders from Gym Jones. Do 1 rep, rest 1 breath, do 2 reps, rest two breaths, do 3 reps, rest 3 breaths, and so on up to 10-20 reps. You can end it there or come back “down” the ladder. It’s tough with a something like a swing or a snatch, but it’s absolutely killer with a complex.

With dumbbells:
Reverse lunge-hammer cheat curl/clean-overhead press
Do 1 rep of each, rest 1 breath, do 2 reps of each, rest 2 breaths, etc. I like to use 3x5 for a quick cardio circuit.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I do groups of 3-4 (up to 6 when I have an assistant) so with your EDT principles you can basically say, “alright, 5-minutes of [insert exercise], lets set a record,” and as long as you set the loading properly for each person and are monitoring form, it goes very smoothly.[/quote]

Cool. I can definitely see how it would translate very well into a group setting. What prompted my question in the first place was a thread around here a while ago, where a guy said he was interviewing for a personal training position in a gym, and he “wrote an EDT program” for the interviewer, to show he knew what he was doing. That kinda confused me.

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Just to throw this out there… have y’all ever encountered a client that “broke the rules” and succeeded on a program that shouldn’t have worked so well? Meaning, the training principles that “should” work efficiently, didn’t, and something more counter-intuitive did?

I was recently working with a lady and the diet was spot on, but nothing seemed to be producing fat loss; HIIT, barbell complexes, sprints. But walking for an hour three times a week, and a half-hour of lifting twice a week, each week had her dropping fat like crazy.

It “shouldn’t” have been the most effective, but it was. Just goes to show you it’s diff’rent strokes for diff’rent folks.

It was a real reminder that individual differences are absolutely real, and you need to take the person’s training history into serious account.

This lady got results with longer duration/lower intensity cardio years ago, and returning to that was what worked best. Not trying to show that I knew a “better way” because, apparently, I didn’t. :wink:

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This seemed like the most appropriate place to ask this.

Now im not sure if this is an issue in the UK alone, but yesterday i gave a lecture at a university and met some EIS strength staff who gave me the distinct impression that they did’nt lift themselves or at least looked like they lifted.

When i mentioned use of deadlifts, bench, tire flips, strongman work as replacements for olympic lifts especially for athletes who are old or compete in a long season. I was viewed as if i had two heads. Maybe my exposure to more power lifting methods

“tiii…ree…fluuhh…ippp?”

Ive also visited a number of EIS facilties and met strength staff who have struck me as the bookish sort with plenty of theoretic knowledge but fall short in practical application. alot of them also appear to be triathletes, why this trend im not sure. now im sure they’re are perfectly knowledge able and practical coaches in the UK.

But ive been spoilt perhaps, ive been out to the US and Aus and seen and met coaches who are both knowledgeable and have a wealth of practical experience.

More to the point there is some self doubt creeping as to my own preferred str + con methods. I was curious if other trainers are sometimes disheartened by what they seem going on the community.

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I should be starting soon as a personal trainer at a Ballys. the process has taken a whole while and while nothing is gauranteed im 95% sure i got the job. im also on the same boat as Pflatz since i dont have any certification either.

As far as what you guys were talking about earlier with how important your own appearance is i think its very important.

If i at a gym and theres two trainers to choose from, one who looks like a competitive bodybuilder and one who’s 5’10 160 pounds im gonna go with the one who looks like a bodybuilder because he if didnt know what he was doing hed never have became that big and probaly has a lot more experience which will result in tried and proven methods.

i pretty much have someone in my corner whos done all the experimenting and KNOWS what works and it shows.

appearance is very important in this world. heres an example from my own experience. i applied to the same gym with the same guy a year ago but i was about 30 pounds lighter.

when i told him i wasnt certified he explained that theres people who work here that are not certified but theyve been playing sports their whole live of some other b.s. ok fast forward a year and 30lbs and i walk in to the same office of the same guy as before and say i want to work as a PT.

I get a totally different response. i explained i didnt have any certification and i wasnt asked if i played a sport. i was given the application and told to bring it in filled out w/ identification ready.

In addition to that im told that ill be replacing a trainer with a degree in phsyical therapy who made some rediculous amount of money a week. i just found it funny how i went from being turned away at the door to being the guy whos replacing their top trainer all because of how i looked after a year of training myself.

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[quote]Wayland wrote:
When i mentioned use of deadlifts, bench, tire flips, strongman work as replacements for olympic lifts especially for athletes who are old or compete in a long season. I was viewed as if i had two heads. Maybe my exposure to more power lifting methods

“tiii…ree…fluuhh…ippp?”[/quote]
There’s a chance they were just unfamiliar with the methods you were talking about. I think of most training methods, strongman is one of the more misunderstood, along the lines of “What can flipping a tire do for a 50-year old guy? That’s just dangerous, impractical, and silly.”

Truthfully, a lack of practical experience may or may not be their fault. If they’re just starting out, trying to “get in the game,” I can fully understand having more book learning than real world application. They haven’t had a chance to test things out yet.

But, if they’re intentionally seeking book-based experience, rather than experiencing things themselves (or, ideally, both), then I disagree with that path. I can read all day long about how Alwyn Cosgrove trains people. But that alone doesn’t mean I know how to train a gold medal Olympian.

I think everyone has their own way of doing things, and that’s the way it should be. At the first gym I worked at, the training staff included an Israeli former solider, a competitive powerlifter, a competitive bodybuilder, a functional training “guru”, a martial arts expert… and me, fresh out-the-box three weeks after getting certified. Do ya think I learned much from them? Hells yes.

Over time, people (hopefully) pick up additional skills, either through intentional study or accidental influence, and helps to evolve their training style. It’s not like one method is any better than another. A glance through the articles on this site prove that.

It’s those stubborn folks who say “I’ve seen this work, so I’ll close my eyes to anything else” that fosters an ignorant attitude, and that’s something I wish there were less of in the industry.

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[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
As far as what you guys were talking about earlier with how important your own appearance is i think its very important.

If i at a gym and theres two trainers to choose from, one who looks like a competitive bodybuilder and one who’s 5’10 160 pounds im gonna go with the one who looks like a bodybuilder[/quote]
Fair enough, you just need to realize that while this is your preference, the average gym member (especially if female and especially at Bally’s) would prefer to work with an average-to above-average looking trainer.

Giant muscular builds can be extremely intimidating to out of shape people, this, in turn, reduces your potential client base, which reduces the size of your wallet.

I’m gonna go ahead and call flat out bullshit on this one, especially that bolded part, and say straight-away that I’ve worked alongside many trainers with competitive bodybuilder physiques (some who actually did compete) that were juiced to the gills and knew dick-all about smart training.

They worked with college kids, and the occasional college girl, when those clients could afford it. These same trainers generally had the least booked schedules.

The busiest trainers were generally above-average looking, with “athletic” builds who produced visible results in their clients week-to-week.

Ideally, it would show through his clients. At the end of the day, that is the proof of the proverbial pudding. A trainer who built an amazing body with 15 years of lifting won’t impress me nearly as much as a trainer with that can drop 20 pounds of fat off a 45-year old woman in three months.

I’m legitimately glad that you’ve gotten your first job, but I’d bet there’s more to that story that you may not know. I highly doubt they said “Steve, you’re the most talented, most profitable, and most experienced trainer we have, but this dude’s fricken’ jacked. You’re fired.”

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Odd that I would come across this thread today, I was going to start a thread to ask my question of the T-Nation PT’s. Anyway, I’m considering getting a second job and wanted to give personal training a shot, was thinking Bally’s as well. However, my background is technology. How do I go about getting started?

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Depends on your target audience Qaash.

I use alot of Mike Boyle’s progression on top of Paul chek’s, Gray Cook’s and AC’s stuff.
But a good start would be signing up at either PTontheNet.com or Strengthcoach.com and read up on the latest discussions…

Find a good mentor and work as an intern for hands on stuff, one thing about certification is that it doesn’t teach you how to design programs, teach you what is good form and how to deal with respective clients and their condition.

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Chris!!! I am not a trainer, don’t plan on being a trainer, but do have a trainer.

This thread is a great read. I love knowing what is behind some of the training decisions.

Thanks

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[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
There’s a chance they were just unfamiliar with the methods you were talking about. I think of most training methods, strongman is one of the more misunderstood, along the lines of “What can flipping a tire do for a 50-year old guy? That’s just dangerous, impractical, and silly.”

Truthfully, a lack of practical experience may or may not be their fault. If they’re just starting out, trying to “get in the game,” I can fully understand having more book learning than real world application. They haven’t had a chance to test things out yet.

But, if they’re intentionally seeking book-based experience, rather than experiencing things themselves (or, ideally, both), then I disagree with that path. I can read all day long about how Alwyn Cosgrove trains people. But that alone doesn’t mean I know how to train a gold medal Olympian.

More to the point there is some self doubt creeping as to my own preferred str + con methods. I was curious if other trainers are sometimes disheartened by what they seem going on the community.
I think everyone has their own way of doing things, and that’s the way it should be. At the first gym I worked at, the training staff included an Israeli former solider, a competitive powerlifter, a competitive bodybuilder, a functional training “guru”, a martial arts expert… and me, fresh out-the-box three weeks after getting certified. Do ya think I learned much from them? Hells yes.

Over time, people (hopefully) pick up additional skills, either through intentional study or accidental influence, and helps to evolve their training style. It’s not like one method is any better than another. A glance through the articles on this site prove that.

It’s those stubborn folks who say “I’ve seen this work, so I’ll close my eyes to anything else” that fosters an ignorant attitude, and that’s something I wish there were less of in the industry.[/quote]

What jarred me was these guys are supposed to be lecturers and research in strength and conditioning.

These folks gave me the distinct impression that olympic lifts where the only way forwards. Also by old i mean by “elite athlete” old 30 years+ (would’nt dream of getting a pensioner tire flipping!!!). Thankfully they saw some sense, in conjugate stuff for on/off seasonal athletes, using more power lifting orientated training mainly for joint and energy preservation.

Hopefully i might be offered a post there, what struck me was our understanding of theory was similar but our application was very different. As it seems to be there are many ways to skin a cat.

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[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
As far as what you guys were talking about earlier with how important your own appearance is i think its very important.

If i at a gym and theres two trainers to choose from, one who looks like a competitive bodybuilder and one who’s 5’10 160 pounds im gonna go with the one who looks like a bodybuilder
Fair enough, you just need to realize that while this is your preference, the average gym member (especially if female and especially at Bally’s) would prefer to work with an average-to above-average looking trainer.

Giant muscular builds can be extremely intimidating to out of shape people, this, in turn, reduces your potential client base, which reduces the size of your wallet.

because he if didnt know what he was doing hed never have became that big and probaly has a lot more experience which will result in tried and proven methods.
I’m gonna go ahead and call flat out bullshit on this one, especially that bolded part, and say straight-away that I’ve worked alongside many trainers with competitive bodybuilder physiques (some who actually did compete) that were juiced to the gills and knew dick-all about smart training.

They worked with college kids, and the occasional college girl, when those clients could afford it. These same trainers generally had the least booked schedules.

The busiest trainers were generally above-average looking, with “athletic” builds who produced visible results in their clients week-to-week.

i pretty much have someone in my corner whos done all the experimenting and KNOWS what works and it shows.
Ideally, it would show through his clients. At the end of the day, that is the proof of the proverbial pudding. A trainer who built an amazing body with 15 years of lifting won’t impress me nearly as much as a trainer with that can drop 20 pounds of fat off a 45-year old woman in three months.

I’m legitimately glad that you’ve gotten your first job, but I’d bet there’s more to that story that you may not know. I highly doubt they said “Steve, you’re the most talented, most profitable, and most experienced trainer we have, but this dude’s fricken’ jacked. You’re fired.”[/quote]

of course results are going to matter but right off the bat when youre someone who doesnt even know enough about lifting to recognize what a trainer really knows just from talking with them or just from having them show you some stuff id think what theyve accomplished with themselves is important.

my guess is that after a while the new trainees start to get more integrated with the gym especially the females and will probaly start talking with each other after cycling class or whatever and bring up oh i train with so and so but he sucks or theyd say i train with so and so and hes great. of course if you suck itll eventually catch up with you.

i also didnt say they fired someone cause i was in shape, one of their employees was going back to new york so there was an open spot. i was just saying how much different it was the second time around when i was noticeably bigger than before. i mean for christ sake the first time the guy asked me if i even lifted.

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[quote]Qaash wrote:
Anyway, I’m considering getting a second job and wanted to give personal training a shot, was thinking Bally’s as well. However, my background is technology. How do I go about getting started?[/quote]
Build this thing. You’ll have your pick of gyms. :wink:

But seriously, grab a certification (ISSA or NSCA would be my top two choices) and go talk to someone. Just be prepared that for part-time training in a gym, you’ll probably be offered the crap shifts (weekend mornings) at least until you’re more experienced.

The gym may or may not have a preferred certification they want, so maybe speak to someone beforehand. Actually… I just checked ballyjobs.com (saved you a step, you’re welcome. Ha.)

Their requirements for a trainer:
[i]* All candidates must be at least 18 years or older to apply

  • Motivation, energy, and enthusiasm, with a desire to succeed
  • Strong communication skills required
  • Customer service oriented
  • Individual and team contributor
  • Previous training and program design experience a plus
  • High School diploma or equivalent
  • Willingness to attend training and development
  • CPR / AED Certified (training provided)[/i]

No actual mention of a training certification needed. That’s funny. Not funny-ha-ha, funny-sad.

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[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Chris!!! I am not a trainer, don’t plan on being a trainer, but do have a trainer.

This thread is a great read. I love knowing what is behind some of the training decisions.

Thanks[/quote]

Ah, so that explains how the thread is at 6700+ views with only 70 posts. Ha. Glad you can get something out of it.

Any chance of mentioning the site to your trainer and getting him on the forum? We can’t have you reading the articles here and showing him up.

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[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Chris!!! I am not a trainer, don’t plan on being a trainer, but do have a trainer.

This thread is a great read. I love knowing what is behind some of the training decisions.

Thanks

Ah, so that explains how the thread is at 6700+ views with only 70 posts. Ha. Glad you can get something out of it.

Any chance of mentioning the site to your trainer and getting him on the forum? We can’t have you reading the articles here and showing him up.[/quote]

Where’s JehovahFitness and Derek? aren’t they trainers?

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[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
of course results are going to matter but right off the bat when youre someone who doesnt even know enough about lifting to recognize what a trainer really knows just from talking with them or just from having them show you some stuff id think what theyve accomplished with themselves is important.[/quote]
This is also where testimonials come into play. As soon as you start out, record and document every client. Pictures and/or measurements work best. Ask your buddies to let you train them for 2-3 months, anything to have a binder to hand people and say “This is what I do.”

I spent the first few years not keeping track of the progress clients were making. Now I wish I had a scrapbook of all those people. Testimonials, testimonials, testimonials.

I can totally relate. When I was 6’2", 180 (before I started training smart), I didn’t get a job at a “hardcore” supplement store even though I had four years experience at similar stores.

As a goof, a buddy of mine (5’9", maybe a solid 220) took my same resume, applied, and got a call for a second interview. So, the double standard/book-judged-by-cover thing is definitely there.

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[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Qaash wrote:
Anyway, I’m considering getting a second job and wanted to give personal training a shot, was thinking Bally’s as well. However, my background is technology. How do I go about getting started?
Build this thing. You’ll have your pick of gyms. :wink:

But seriously, grab a certification (ISSA or NSCA would be my top two choices) and go talk to someone. Just be prepared that for part-time training in a gym, you’ll probably be offered the crap shifts (weekend mornings) at least until you’re more experienced.

The gym may or may not have a preferred certification they want, so maybe speak to someone beforehand. Actually… I just checked ballyjobs.com (saved you a step, you’re welcome. Ha.)

Their requirements for a trainer:
[i]* All candidates must be at least 18 years or older to apply

  • Motivation, energy, and enthusiasm, with a desire to succeed
  • Strong communication skills required
  • Customer service oriented
  • Individual and team contributor
  • Previous training and program design experience a plus
  • High School diploma or equivalent
  • Willingness to attend training and development
  • CPR / AED Certified (training provided)[/i]

No actual mention of a training certification needed. That’s funny. Not funny-ha-ha, funny-sad.[/quote]

Thanks, at least I look like I lift. Thanks for the reply.

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[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Where’s JehovahFitness and Derek? aren’t they trainers?
[/quote]

J-Fit chimed in at the top of this page (EDIT - How did I know this would go on the wrong page. J-Fit is on Pg. 3) Derek posted on it when the thread was still “new,” so it’s fair to think it’s been forgotten about.

I may need to send a few unofficial T-Cell Trainer invitation/reminder PMs.

I mean, come on gang, the thread got the Cosgrove Seal of Approval (see page 1). There’s potential here. :wink:

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How did you get your female clients to hit the iron instead of the cardio machines? I’m sure this will be my challenge once I start.

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[quote]Qaash wrote:
How did you get your female clients to hit the iron instead of the cardio machines? I’m sure this will be my challenge once I start.[/quote]
I overwhelm them with images that defy the She-Hulk myth. Google Image search any of the following:

Hannah Johnson, a 148 pound powerlifter with a 400 pound squat and dead, and a 265 bench.

Gea Johnson (ha, no relation as far as I know), a 140 pound Olympic weightlifter with a 265 clean and jerk.

FigureAthlete.com’s own Olesya Novik, a figure competitor who regularly does squats, deadlifts, rack pulls, etc.

Tony Gentilcore had a good article about this whole topic:
http://www.figureathlete.com/article/training/4_things_your_girlfriend_should_know&cr=

One of my favorite Chris Shugart lines also helps convince ladies: “Lifting weights makes men big, and it makes women firm.”

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[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Qaash wrote:
How did you get your female clients to hit the iron instead of the cardio machines? I’m sure this will be my challenge once I start.
I overwhelm them with images that defy the She-Hulk myth. Google Image search any of the following:

Hannah Johnson, a 148 pound powerlifter with a 400 pound squat and dead, and a 265 bench.

Gea Johnson (ha, no relation as far as I know), a 140 pound Olympic weightlifter with a 265 clean and jerk.

FigureAthlete.com’s own Olesya Novik, a figure competitor who regularly does squats, deadlifts, rack pulls, etc.

Tony Gentilcore had a good article about this whole topic:
http://www.figureathlete.com/article/training/4_things_your_girlfriend_should_know&cr=

One of my favorite Chris Shugart lines also helps convince ladies: “Lifting weights makes men big, and it makes women firm.”[/quote]

Thanks again