Trainers Talking Shop

Off Topic
41

The free session idea is a tricky spot. I guess it goes more into what is determined a free session, and what isn’t. For me it also goes into what I would be getting out of the situation if not monetary compensation.

I.E.

I showed the manager of the tanning place across the street a workout, and check up with her now and then to make sure its going well. In return, now I tan for free at her place, and she practically provides me all her 19 - 25 year old girls to take out to dinner or invite me to parties and such. Worthwhile arrangement for 2 hours worth of work.

A friend of mine is competeing in the Miss Virginia Pageant, and if she wins she will be competing in Miss America. I work with her for free, under the stipulation that anytime there is an opportunity, she says my trainer is Jon, and he works out of Alexandria, check him out he did great for me. I only do this because it does bring in some business, and the competitior is a friend.

However, with the exception to these cases, I will not do much more than correct technique, or say I’d do rows over seated cable pulls, once. The once rule is pretty set in stone. As soon as you give free help, people will always come back for free help, and I’m not eating or paying my bills. We have to always remember that this is a business, and we are the business. We are selling ourselves and our knowledge.

42

Happy belated Thanksgiving/Holidays/New Year’s to my trainer bros. I thought it was time for the quarterly check-up… :slight_smile:

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
The free session idea is a tricky spot. I guess it goes more into what is determined a free session, and what isn’t. For me it also goes into what I would be getting out of the situation if not monetary compensation.
[/quote]

I totally agree with that last part. Like I said, it’s an investment of time. With this guy I was training, I did the 8 weeks with him, and then he continued on for another three weeks (paid). He referred a teammate to me, but the guy totally blew out his knee on a boating trip before we began. But I was also referred another guy on a different team, and that’s working well.

So, in terms of a Return on Investment, I’m still working to make up what I gave away for free (money-wise), but depending on how long this new guy sticks with it and how many of his overweight teammates we can grab, I’d say it was a positive method overall.

The toughest part was just going those 8 weeks without money coming in from him. But I kept my eye on the bigger picture, and it worked out in the end.

43

Wow, how have I missed this thread before?

Here are some questions for anyone willing to take a stab at them:

  1. How do you keep things exciting for the client?

  2. What goes into the initial assessment with the client? Obviously, this will depend on the client’s goals, but what general tests would you take (cardiovascular endurance, strength, muscle function, etc.)?

  3. What do you think about small group training (4 people or less)?

  4. Let’s say a client’s goal is fat loss, and after the initial period of rapid changes, progress stalls, despite the diet being in order, and training being reasonably good?

  5. How do you deal with the lazy clients? Example: in one session, the client did 10 reps (with relative ease). Next, you tell her that the following workout, she’ll be doing 11 reps. The client then argues and complains over that one rep, especially that the 10 reps were not particularly taxing.

  6. How do you maintain the client’s motivation over an extended period of time? At first training is new and exciting, but after a few months, it becomes easier to skip workouts, or start to just go through the motions. What are some remedies you folks have found effective?

44

bump

45

[quote]kligor wrote:

  1. How do you keep things exciting for the client?[/quote]
    I prefer to use unique exercises, or at least, exercises the client hasn’t ever done before. Whether it’s a dumbbell windmill, anything with a kettlebell, or cardio hitting the hand pads.

At the same time, I think you have to keep an eye on the client, see what catches their interest, and use that as a staple. They might really like doing push-ups, so I might work in as many variations as I could. Or they might really like pulling the sled, so that’ll get used more.

This is probably different for every single trainer, and I think part of what makes you you, ya know?

I’ve gone through differnet phases from no assessments, to full out calisthenic/stretching tests, to just an overhead squat with no weight (still learning to diagnose that one). It depends on what you’re comfortable administering, and what you actually know how to interpret.

I don’t think it’s so much dependent on the client. An assessment should be the same across the board. A conditioned client will ace it, and a deconditioned client will let you know what to correct right off the bat.

I think it’s definitely where we should be heading. A bunch of big dogs in the industy (Cosgrove, Cressey, Ryan Lee) are hardcore advocates of it. If you pick up the ebook Fitness Riches, a large chunk of Cosgrove’s chapter talks about it.

If you deal with any type of athlete, it’s definitely beneficial. You can really just tell any one of your clients “Just so you know, if you decide to bring a friend to train with you, you’ll each receive the special 20% reduced fee.” or whatever.

46

Thanks for the input, Colucci. Again, great idea making this thread.

47

[quote]kligor wrote:
4. Let’s say a client’s goal is fat loss, and after the initial period of rapid changes, progress stalls, despite the diet being in order, and training being reasonably good?[/quote]

I’m not exactly sure of your question here, but plateaus are a pretty normal occurance. Assuming it isn’t simple overtraining, I’d probably go over diet with a fine-tooth comb (re-read their food log, because they’re keeping on…right?) And then probably do something drastically different, training-wise, for a week or two.

Whatever they’ve been doing, do the opposite. If you’ve been doing intervals, try a 2-mile run. If you’ve been doing alot of barbell work, use only one dumbbell for everything. After the shock to the system, try getting back to what was working before.

You don’t argue with clients, that’s like a teacher arguing with a student. It’s no-win. Assert that you’re the professional, and if they’re serious about reaching their goals, you know the best method. End of story.

This is where it comes in handy, at the very first client consultation, you lay down the law, so to speak. Let them know that training is against human nature. It’s sweaty, sometimes it’s tough, and it will be challenging. It’s fine if they let you know before you begin that they won’t be up for it. But once they start, quitting is simply unacceptable.

If it’s a chronic problem, I’d consider firing them as a client. Seriously.

Like your earlier question, you have to keep things interesting. Use exercises they like and introduce new exercises fairly regularly. And most of all, provide visible, tangible results. If a client can see their muscles start to appear, or an ab or two, or if they can pick up 50 pounds more than they did two weeks ago, they’re going to be stoked.

I like using new exercises (like I mentioned earlier) Car pushing, sled draggin, sandbag work, kettlebells. Different stuff that they never would’ve expected to be doing while working out.

Worst case scenario, slip a Spike Shooter into their water bottle. :stuck_out_tongue: (I kid, I kid.)

48

[quote]Colucci wrote:
kligor wrote:
4. Let’s say a client’s goal is fat loss, and after the initial period of rapid changes, progress stalls, despite the diet being in order, and training being reasonably good?

I’m not exactly sure of your question here, [/quote]

Sorry, my brain was racing faster than my fingers. But yeah, you answered my question exactly.

[quote]
but plateaus are a pretty normal occurance. Assuming it isn’t simple overtraining, I’d probably go over diet with a fine-tooth comb (re-read their food log, because they’re keeping on…right?) And then probably do something drastically different, training-wise, for a week or two.

Whatever they’ve been doing, do the opposite. If you’ve been doing intervals, try a 2-mile run. If you’ve been doing alot of barbell work, use only one dumbbell for everything. After the shock to the system, try getting back to what was working before. [/quote]

Makes sense.

Yeah, that’s essentially what I do. Once the client complains, I usually ask him if he wants to reach his goal. Unfortunately, that’s what we have to go through every session. So firing may be an option in the future.

[quote]6. How do you maintain the client’s motivation over an extended period of time? At first training is new and exciting, but after a few months, it becomes easier to skip workouts, or start to just go through the motions. What are some remedies you folks have found effective?

Like your earlier question, you have to keep things interesting. Use exercises they like and introduce new exercises fairly regularly. And most of all, provide visible, tangible results. If a client can see their muscles start to appear, or an ab or two, or if they can pick up 50 pounds more than they did two weeks ago, they’re going to be stoked.

I like using new exercises (like I mentioned earlier) Car pushing, sled draggin, sandbag work, kettlebells. Different stuff that they never would’ve expected to be doing while working out.

Worst case scenario, slip a Spike Shooter into their water bottle. :stuck_out_tongue: (I kid, I kid.)[/quote]

49

Advice?

I am a trainer/Coach-have been in some shape or form for 18 years. I guess I have made my fulltime living as a PT (a bad one at that). I have several coaching certificates, ACSM and a Masters degree.

My proble is this? I really enjoy my job and working with my clients but I am sick of the other trainers I work with and paying a huge amount of money to a club as rent when I bring them business and retain their members.

I am tentitively looking for employment in another industy but really do not want to leave behind the last 18 years.

Have any of you guys been through the same though process and made a decision eitherway and if so, do you feel as if you made the right decision.

Thanks
CW

50

I would like to put myself out here if I may.

I am a personal trainer at one of the NYSC clubs in New Jersey.

Im fresh out the orientation, and completely new to helping other people get fit.

I am not yet certitified in anything yet, but in about a week will need to make that decision as to which one I will sign up for. Obviously, as a greenhorn id ask all the typical questions about which cert I you might think I should persue or which common pitfall mistakes I need to avoid. I would appreciate any advice told here; this is my bread and butter of my fitness life and I could really use the help.

Thanks in advance…

51

I apologize,

My post may have been already asked or in the wrong forum/thread.

52

This may be too late to help but I haven’t been around here in a while.

[quote]BluePfaltz wrote:
…need to make that decision as to which one I will sign up for. …[/quote]

The best answer is the cert that your employer prefers. This can vary from gym to gym so your best bet is to ask.

Funny story…a friend had his degree and did his upper division work under a highly respected weightlifting coach and the fitness center where he worked still wanted to see a PT cert. So he went online and got an ACE cert and they were happy???

Personally, I’ve always worked as an independent and my insurance agent is the only person who ever ask about my certification.

53

I had mentally dedicated my energy towards the NSCA-CPT just because they are the same organizing body that credits the CSCS for when I get my bachelors or masters in the field. I also know its more Strength and Athlete oriented, and thats the type of clientele I want to attract, so it wasnt really a hard decision as to what I want to train, just which NCCA approved body, and there are a few, to associate with.

I was really torn between NCSF and NFPT. Both appeared to sound education and relatively easy CEC’s (or CEU’s) accumulation. NFPT seemed more organized, but also way expensive. NCSF seems very “optional” for its education, and in the long run, very confusing. The only reason I considered the ACSM is because Chris Shugart seems to hold them in high esteem, going to their seminars and conferences and such.

My gym prefers NASM so highly, its impossible to move up in pay scale without a basic cert from that field. I dont mind the whole multi cert thing as long as my gym pays a good portion of it, and im competant enough to not ‘rely’ on the letters that back my skill. I want to be the skill, and I dont want anything to cructh that ego.

Aside from this minor hijack, I have 0 experience training people. Just myself. This site (god bless you) got me training right and thinking for myself. I want the skill to be able to pass that knowledge and energy to others who want to learn. I too am constantly learning, so Im receptable to wisdom from the rest of you who would share the do’s and do-not’s of Personal Training and all its glory.

If you prefer, Ill start another thread for it.

54

A new question for all you self-employed trainers out there.

How much are you paying in “rent” to the gym you work in, or if you own your studio/gym then what do you charge your trainers?

I know answers will vary due to locations. I foresee a change for me in the next year and I’m just collecting a little data…

55

[quote]mahwah wrote:

How much are you paying in “rent” to the gym you work in? [/quote]

One of the places I train out of charges me by how many hours I train there per week. For example, 9 hours worth of clients a week costs me $250 each month.

Other places just charge a drop fee in ranging from $5-15 per client.

I hope this is somewhat helpful.

56

I figured this was worth a bump, seeing as how the T-Cell Alpha is an exclusive place for experienced folks, I’m hoping this could serve as an impromptu “T-Cell Trainer” section.

I just ask that, if you’re posting/replying here, you have experience actually training clients, not just yourself. If it’s your first post in this thread, feel free to do a mini-bio.

Question for the group:

Do you use EDT principles with clients, and if so, how do you do it?

I’ve used the system for myself, but I’ve never figured out how to implement it into a client’s supervised program, due to the self-regulating factor of EDT. It’s entirely based on pushing yourself, based on self-monitoring.

Ideas, comments, questions?

57

I’ll chime in.

Bio-
Training 6 yrs
Education BS Exercise Science, Cooper Institute Certification

Work at a commercial gym (not a large chain), as a trainer and Assistant Fitness Director

I also train some clients in-home. It has it’s advantages and disadvantages of course.

I guess that’s all for now.

58

It’s been a long time eh? Forgot all about this thread, come back, and there are a couple of posts I want to chime-in on. Good to hear from you again Chris.

When this started I was a “leaner-stronger-generalist” and have since gravitated into Olympic weightlifting; I still train the general fitness type clients but from a Weightlifting/Sports Enhancement model vise the bodybuilding model. We’re also sponsoring an unofficial competitive Olympic weightlifting team; I’m working on USAW club registration at the moment (had to work that in).

I had a couple of sweetheart deals originally: one with a gym that only required the client and I both are members and one with a club the only asked I do orientations for new members. About a year ago I realized my training methods weren’t compatible with commercial facilities and opened my own private facility.

I’ve never had a client that specifically wanted hypertrophy and the way we train isn’t geared toward it; our aim is speed/strength/conditioning with increased muscle mass and fat loss as a side effect.

I don’t use the EDT with clients. For that matter I had to go read up again to answer the question; though the fact that I had a pdf copy is telling.

We use kettlebell snatch ladders in a similar way for conditioning, but not really EDT:
The weight used varies.
5R/5L - 15seconds rest
10R/10L - 15seconds rest
15R/15L - 15seconds rest
20R/20L

59

ZuesNathan is a PT!

60

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Do you use EDT principles with clients, and if so, how do you do it?
[/quote]

[short bio] All of the people I train are athletes, mostly in high school (with a few middle schoolers and a few college athletes) and mostly female- got my “in” with volleyball coaches and now slowly branching out as I get word of mouth referrals.[/short bio]

Yes, I love EDT principles. In fact, it would be accurate to say that “more work, same time” is the foundational principle of the strength work in my program.

Strength work for upper body is based around vertical and horizontal, push and pull. The first thing when working with a new kid is establishing correct form and really teaching the lifts properly. Second is establishing a base level of strength.

You can’t really get into any sort of techniques or advanced schemes when they can only do 5 pushups. So I start with doing sets of 3 with good form (some cannot do this, they start with slow eccentrics with good form and work from there) and once they can do 8 x 3, then we start lowering sets and raising reps and work toward doing 3 x 10 or so.

This takes a few workouts, but after this is done, a baseline of strength is established and also I am usually confident that form has been mastered. After this, it is pretty much all EDT-style from there on out.

However, I don’t always alternate exercises and never go 15 minutes with one exercise. My most common thing is one exercise for 5 minutes, trying to set a reps PR. This works great for bodyweight stuff such as pushups and pullups. Do a 5-minute PR period and set an initial. Next week you HAVE to beat that, which the kid can almost always do just by gutting out an extra rep.

Then the next week you can try to beat that record again or what I usually do is just change the load and go two weeks setting and beating your PR. Keep changing the load so when you go back to the original it’s a few weeks later and you are sure to get a decent PR.

This type of training is great because you are constantly competing against yourself and there is instant feedback on whether you break the record or not. Since a beginner or novice can almost always get at least one more rep in 5 minutes, they start to get this great feeling of accomplishment and their confidence goes up and they are working even harder.

It is also great because I do no 1-on-1 training, I think it is not very cost-effective for the client and I find that kids tend to feel a little self-conscious when it is just them alone.

I do groups of 3-4 (up to 6 when I have an assistant) so with your EDT principles you can basically say, “alright, 5-minutes of [insert exercise], lets set a record,” and as long as you set the loading properly for each person and are monitoring form, it goes very smoothly.

It is also very flexible, give somebody a 15RM and 5 minutes and you get into the 30-40 rep range. Give somebody a 5RM and you are getting good strength work in the 10-15 rep range. It also helps build work capacity since you only rest as long as you need to.

Basically it just puts the onus to improve and work hard where it should be: solely on the client. It makes them accountable for their progress.