[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
What issues does every one oppose? Is it just that you do not think that health care is a right. It can�¢??t be the illegal immigrant getting health care because they already get it. The only people not insured are the working class that worries about their credit rating.
Explain to me how illegals have coverage that the working class don’t.[/quote]
They go to the Emergency room and do not pay the bill, so what ever they owe is tacked on to the next paying customer
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
What issues does every one oppose? Is it just that you do not think that health care is a right. It can�?�¢??t be the illegal immigrant getting health care because they already get it. The only people not insured are the working class that worries about their credit rating.
Explain to me how illegals have coverage that the working class don’t.
They go to the Emergency room and do not pay the bill, so what ever they owe is tacked on to the next paying customer[/quote]
So how about we get the government to do there job in removing them then we start talking about expanding there jo
[quote]John S. wrote:
gambit, as tedro clearly stated they changed it. You will forgive me if i cant keep up with all 1,000 pages. My first point still stands, if you dont have insurance and this passes you will be forced on this plan. Either way they are still going to kill the private sector. [/quote]
Actually it has not been changed since the page 16 info was first discovered. The first media outlets to report it failed to report that it excluded group policies and that private individual policies will still technically be available through a “National Health Insurance Exchange”. However, purchasing insurance through the heavily regulated exchange will not be substantially different than a public option, other than where you send your check every month. If you ask me, being forced to purchase through a government run exchange pretty much eliminates the right to be called private.
As you said, either way they are still going to kill the private sector.
[quote]tedro wrote:
John S. wrote:
gambit, as tedro clearly stated they changed it. You will forgive me if i cant keep up with all 1,000 pages. My first point still stands, if you dont have insurance and this passes you will be forced on this plan. Either way they are still going to kill the private sector.
Actually it has not been changed since the page 16 info was first discovered. The first media outlets to report it failed to report that it excluded group policies and that private individual policies will still technically be available through a “National Health Insurance Exchange”. However, purchasing insurance through the heavily regulated exchange will not be substantially different than a public option, other than where you send your check every month.
As you said, either way they are still going to kill the private sector.[/quote] another reason why I hate long bills, information keeps getting mixed up. looks like its time for a second read through for me.
[quote]tedro wrote:
John S. wrote:
gambit, as tedro clearly stated they changed it. You will forgive me if i cant keep up with all 1,000 pages. My first point still stands, if you dont have insurance and this passes you will be forced on this plan. Either way they are still going to kill the private sector.
Actually it has not been changed since the page 16 info was first discovered. The first media outlets to report it failed to report that it excluded group policies and that private individual policies will still technically be available through a “National Health Insurance Exchange”. However, purchasing insurance through the heavily regulated exchange will not be substantially different than a public option, other than where you send your check every month. If you ask me, being forced to purchase through a government run exchange pretty much eliminates the right to be called private.
As you said, either way they are still going to kill the private sector.[/quote]
Thanks. You explained it better than I would have; and I probably would have thrown in some sarcasm.
[quote]John S. wrote:
This has to be the biggest joke I have ever seen. Are we really supposed to believe this wasnt set up after seeing other town halls? Even my brother who is a liberal said it was fake. Anyone else fired up after this? Has this man even read the bill?[/quote]
Obamaist leftist propaganda, nothing more nothing less.
[quote]dtheyer wrote:
John S. wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
It really wasn’t rigged, guys. They were going to kick people out if they yelled and were disruptive, but they were not pre-screened questions.
You forgot to mention lack of challenging questions. I wish I could debate this clown.
What would you have asked?[/quote]
Question 1: Have you finally read the House bill?
Question 2: Why do you allow nancy pelosi to write your signature legislation?
Question 3: Why, after quadrupling our national debt in several months, should we trust you to “pay as you go?”
Question 4: How did I get by your censors?
Question 5: Can your mind understand the ramifications of having a “report your neighbor line” to the White House?
Question 6: Do you think you could win an election without trial lawyer support? Any health reform that doesn’t start with tort reform is just fart-gas.
Question 7: Would you be willing to mandate all Federal employees (including yourself) be signed up to the public option Day #1?
Question 8: Are you aware that the majority of VA health care is substandard?
Question 9: Are you aware of any Americans crossing the border into Canada for health procedures?
Question 10: Why did you just cut a deal with Pharma, ensuring that prices on drugs remain high?
[quote]John S. wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
Sloth wrote:
The public option is meant to, eventually, crowd out the private. What was it? 15-20 years for a single payer system, or so they hope?
No! Obama clearly stated today he is NOT in favor of a single payer system. He believes that transition is simply not appropriate for the U.S.
The purpose of health-care reform is to provide affordable health-care for all Americans. Our current system does not (46 Million uninsured). The purpose of the public option is to provide honest competition for insurance companies. The public option will not be subsidized by taxpayer money, and Obama has stated he would abandon any public option that did.
Think of FedEx and UPS, they compete with the Post Office, and they do VERY well.
I will give you the same advice I give the politicians. READ THE BILL!!![/quote]
this is one of the reasons, why I believe that there is a secret government, if elected officials aren’t reading bills what else aren’t they doing. How difficult would it be for a group of highly intelligent and cunning men to slowly take over the government. Given time
Explain to me how illegals have coverage that the working class don’t.[/quote]
Slightly off topic here Duce, but I want to add something here. I’m tired of people against Obamacare crying about illegal immigrants as if Socialized Health Care is okay, it’s just that these “illegals” are going to bankrupt our little socialist utopia. Seems to me that socialized health care is wrong on its face – no need to even bring up illegal immigrants. But what do I know, I said socialist three times, that makes me an obvious racist.
[quote]kodiak82 wrote:
John S. wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
Sloth wrote:
The public option is meant to, eventually, crowd out the private. What was it? 15-20 years for a single payer system, or so they hope?
No! Obama clearly stated today he is NOT in favor of a single payer system. He believes that transition is simply not appropriate for the U.S.
The purpose of health-care reform is to provide affordable health-care for all Americans. Our current system does not (46 Million uninsured). The purpose of the public option is to provide honest competition for insurance companies. The public option will not be subsidized by taxpayer money, and Obama has stated he would abandon any public option that did.
Think of FedEx and UPS, they compete with the Post Office, and they do VERY well.
I will give you the same advice I give the politicians. READ THE BILL!!!
this is one of the reasons, why I believe that there is a secret government, if elected officials aren’t reading bills what else aren’t they doing. How difficult would it be for a group of highly intelligent and cunning men to slowly take over the government. Given time[/quote]
I was able to read page 16 again, you where right tedro. Tho it still is going to practicly make it impossible for you to get on a private plan, I cant say it as fact. Tho every thing else I said was true. So gambit any response to my other points or is this where you exit stage left?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
What issues does every one oppose? Is it just that you do not think that health care is a right. It can�¢??t be the illegal immigrant getting health care because they already get it. The only people not insured are the working class that worries about their credit rating.
Explain to me how illegals have coverage that the working class don’t.[/quote]
Since illegal aliens are not allowed standard health care, they usually wait until it becomes an emergency, and then seek treatment, since they are allowed emergency healthcare. But emergency care is most often more expensive, the moment you walk into an ER, you are doubling (at least) what it would cost if you made an appt with a regular doctor. We as citizens are fucked either way, emergency or not, we are paying regardless. And people wonder why they come here.
[quote]John S. wrote:
I was able to read page 16 again, you where right tedro. Tho it still is going to practicly make it impossible for you to get on a private plan, I cant say it as fact. Tho every thing else I said was true. So gambit any response to my other points or is this where you exit stage left?[/quote]
Well, I was going to exit, but since you’ve asked…
Do you have a law degree? Any experience reading the law? You seem like a motivated individual if you’ve actually read the 1000+ pg legalese twice, and you deserve some credit for effort. You seem angry though. Twice now you’ve used the expression “clearly stated” when, in fact, you were incorrect. You’ve used expressions like, “the biggest joke I have ever seen”, “Obama is lying through his teeth,” and “it was fake.” You even used the internet version of yelling saying, “READ THE BILL!!!” So you’ve obviously got a lot of passion and that is good.
Now, don’t you think it would be appropriate to direct that passion at a constructive endeavor? Instead of screaming about things, perhaps asking questions and trying to understand the answers? If you don’t like “damn liberals,” I’ve seen DrSep give a lot of great information. Perhaps you could ask him some things. Tedro on here seemed to give you constructive information that you accepted, perhaps ask some more questions. You claim to have read the bill twice, have you read analysis of it from non-partisan sources? Perhaps you could. Even reading what extremely biased sources like the heritage foundation have to say would, I think, improve your arguments. If you feel the need to get out of sorts, that is your right, feel free. If you want to be taken a bit more seriously though, you’ll have to educate yourself and don’t say “clearly stated” when you are having trouble understanding things.
It seems the site didnt post my last post. I have only read the bill once I am going for a second read through. Starting tomarrow I will be re reading the bill and will post my findings that way I wont be confusing where I got my info. That ok with you? since I will be starting at the basics again lets start our debate there. 2 questions, how to pay for it, and adding to that he says it will all be paid for before he signs the bill in. The CBO says its impossible with this current plan. Do you agree or disagree explain. I am sure I have decent credibility on this site so I am not to worried about that.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
kodiak82 wrote:
John S. wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
Sloth wrote:
The public option is meant to, eventually, crowd out the private. What was it? 15-20 years for a single payer system, or so they hope?
No! Obama clearly stated today he is NOT in favor of a single payer system. He believes that transition is simply not appropriate for the U.S.
The purpose of health-care reform is to provide affordable health-care for all Americans. Our current system does not (46 Million uninsured). The purpose of the public option is to provide honest competition for insurance companies. The public option will not be subsidized by taxpayer money, and Obama has stated he would abandon any public option that did.
Think of FedEx and UPS, they compete with the Post Office, and they do VERY well.
I will give you the same advice I give the politicians. READ THE BILL!!!
this is one of the reasons, why I believe that there is a secret government, if elected officials aren’t reading bills what else aren’t they doing. How difficult would it be for a group of highly intelligent and cunning men to slowly take over the government. Given time
Nice, you’ll fit right in here. [/quote]
I remember, thats the first thing you said when first posted here. Why ? do you dismiss it off hand
I remember, thats the first thing you said when first posted here. Why ? do you dismiss it off hand[/quote]
Bingo
and yes, you will be a crazy unhinged freak to this person if you are a person who wants to crack down on immigration costs, welfare costs, fraud and Marxist socialism financed by you and I.