Torn Between Scylla and Charybdis

Training Logs
821

I also, in theory, really like the GreySkull approach to a 3x5 for the main lifts. It’s really 5, 5, 5+. The AMRAP set does a good job of making sure you milk things based on however you’re feeling for the day.

And for progression, you steadily add a small amount of weight every session, so you’re always progressing in intensity on the baseline of 3 sets of 5. And when you don’t hit that, you drop 10% and continue to proceed the same way. So you might be doing only 3 sets of 5, but then you drop 10% and you do 2x5, 1x18.

When you stop progressing by intensity alone, it switches to progressing by volume at a lower intensity… and then shifts back to intensity until you can’t handle it… and back to volume.

I haven’t run it long enough yet myself to reap that benefit, but there’s the concept. You could do the same with 3x5 or 3x8 or 8x3 or whatever.

–

You also struck on an important point too though about the goal and the logical plan. That’s where picking a sport such as powerlifting makes it simple, because your specific goal is to improve your competition lifts. And as you advance, it becomes apparent which are your weaker lifts, and where your weaknesses are in that particular lift.

Pure bodybuilding has similar goals, once you’ve reached a certain amount of size that you actually have “weaknesses”.

Lifting for someone who wants to just “look better naked” seems more difficult, since it’s a lot harder to quantify, and a lot harder to build an actual plan. That’s a place where it’s really hard to say anything more than “lift and eat” in the beginning. It’s too early to determine how particular lifts affect them to even say anything useful.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but switching my mindset to focus on very specific goals that resonate with me, that’s made a significant difference in how I’m approaching my own training. Because I get periodically stuck in the “I just need to get bigger overall” mindset, I’ve been a little too direction-less. But my goals right now are a 230 lb Axle clean and push press for 8 reps, and a 545lb 18" deadlift for 10 reps. Once I decided that, everything else started making sense. I don’t have a completely clear path, but I have a clear direction now.

I think setting a direction may be the single most important thing to making real progress. And it’s something that most people struggle with.

822

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I also, in theory, really like the GreySkull approach to a 3x5 for the main lifts. It’s really 5, 5, 5+. The AMRAP set does a good job of making sure you milk things based on however you’re feeling for the day.

And for progression, you steadily add a small amount of weight every session, so you’re always progressing in intensity on the baseline of 3 sets of 5. And when you don’t hit that, you drop 10% and continue to proceed the same way. So you might be doing only 3 sets of 5, but then you drop 10% and you do 2x5, 1x18.

When you stop progressing by intensity alone, it switches to progressing by volume at a lower intensity… and then shifts back to intensity until you can’t handle it… and back to volume.

I haven’t run it long enough yet myself to reap that benefit, but there’s the concept. You could do the same with 3x5 or 3x8 or 8x3 or whatever.

–

You also struck on an important point too though about the goal and the logical plan. That’s where picking a sport such as powerlifting makes it simple, because your specific goal is to improve your competition lifts. And as you advance, it becomes apparent which are your weaker lifts, and where your weaknesses are in that particular lift.

Pure bodybuilding has similar goals, once you’ve reached a certain amount of size that you actually have “weaknesses”.

Lifting for someone who wants to just “look better naked” seems more difficult, since it’s a lot harder to quantify, and a lot harder to build an actual plan. That’s a place where it’s really hard to say anything more than “lift and eat” in the beginning. It’s too early to determine how particular lifts affect them to even say anything useful.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but switching my mindset to focus on very specific goals that resonate with me, that’s made a significant difference in how I’m approaching my own training. Because I get periodically stuck in the “I just need to get bigger overall” mindset, I’ve been a little too direction-less. But my goals right now are a 230 lb Axle clean and push press for 8 reps, and a 545lb 18" deadlift for 10 reps. Once I decided that, everything else started making sense. I don’t have a completely clear path, but I have a clear direction now.

I think setting a direction may be the single most important thing to making real progress. And it’s something that most people struggle with.[/quote]

I feel like with plans like greyskull and 5/3/1, you just lift and let nature take its course haha.

That is one of the nice thing about it.

They allow me to be a big dumb animal while I am in the gym.

823

7/16/14

Squat
10xBW
5xBW
7x45
6x135
5x185
5x230 (These weren’t quality reps. My headphones got caught on my shorts and all kinds of dumb stuff.)
6x260 (Wasn’t happy with how doing 5 reps felt. These were quality reps though.)
10x295 (Belted up. Paused the first few. Left a few in the tank. Not super difficult.)
5x260 (Paused. Beltless again.)
5x260 (Paused. Beltless.)
5x260 (Paused. Beltless.)

Front Squat
5x185 (Right hand on top. Questionable depth. I am 90% sure they were all deep.)
5x185 (Left hand on top. Better depth, with pauses.)
3x185 (Both hands on top. Meh…)
3x185 (Right hand on top. Felt better.)
3x185 (Left hand on top. Felt even better.)
2x185 (Right hand on top to make up for previous sets. Video taken.)

This workout took a while, because I took my time with it.

I skipped curls. I will probably do them tomorrow. If I don’t get to it, it is because it is not a huge priority of mine haha.

I really want to do strongman stuff…

824

My upper back feels really nice.

I wore my belt higher today. It felt better than it did when deadlifting.

I have been experimenting with foot position. I am not sure where I want them just yet.

Front squatting is still a major struggle. Video coming.

If I think of more, I will add it later.

I wonder if I could add log press to my bench day. If only I had access to strongman equipment.

Thanks for reading!

825

My knees feel pretty good today. Legs are nice and sore. Back is good as well.

Also, I have found Chris Duffin.

He says that while you squat, you should consciously grab the ground with your toes and twist outward.

I like this as a cue is better for me than “force your knees out.”

When I force my knees out, I feel like I take it too far and my knees shoot over my small toes too much (not a ton), and the medial part of my foot lifts off the ground. I feel like this causes me to lose power as my whole foot is not on the ground and my knee is not directly over top of my foot for every rep (the optimal position for power transfer according to my own logical abilities).

When I screw my feet outward, my knee stays over my toe, my glutes seem to activate better, and I feel as if my foot still tracks over my toe somewhat more appropriately.

This video by Clint Darden is also awesome…

http://vimeo.com/97519450

Now, squatting is a highly individual thing, what works for me, may not work for you. Hell in 6 months, this may not feel good any more.

I feel like I am always relearning form.

As I get bigger, my form changes too.

826

I also liked this video by Pete Rubish a ton.

827

7/19/2014

YTWL/APLEY/BDL/BPA

Bench Press
10x45
5x135
3x175
5x195
5x215
9x245 (Paused. Moved hands out a bit. Went to thumb’s length. Will explain below.)
5x225 (Paused.)
5x225 (Paused.)
5x225 (Paused. Took thumb’s length grip.)
(I really tried to keep the bar speed high for those last few sets. Took a lot of rest between sets.)

Kroc Row
130 lb dumbbell for sets of 11/10/2/10/2/10*
(I was not really pleased with my form on the set marked with an . I tried to keep my hand pronated more.)
120 lb dumbbell for sets of 10/5
(Dominated the set marked with an *.)
(I was second guessing my counting skills the whole time, so that is why there are random sets of 2 and 5 here and there. I just wanted to make sure I was getting the reps.)

Overall, not bad. I have been having what I am going to call AC joint discomfort for the past 48 hours. I am going to attribute this flare to front squatting, and partially to front squatting using poor form (will upload video). I think this is what I was feeling when I was doing incline press too.

I cannot reproduce the pain, but my joints are not pain free.

I think this means that I am going to need to find a way to buy a safety squat bar, and learn how to use it properly.

828

In the video you can see that I am struggling with form for whatever reason, and that is causing the bar to roll around on my shoulders.

Front squats, are apparently from what I have been reading, already hard on the AC joint. Add the bar rolling around up there, and you can see why I am having pain.

The first rep was way better feeling than the first.

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG ON ANYTHING IN THIS POST. I WILL NOT BE OFFENDED IN THE LEAST.

Also, in my reading, I am seeing that front squats are really just a “poor mans safety squat,” and that it is becoming popular because crossfit is incorporating Olympic lifting into their stuff. I think that the only reason that Olympic lifters don’t use safety squat bars is twofold.

  1. They are crazy flexible and have to be able to maintain that position for their competition lifts. It makes sense to use this lift if you are going to be competing in Olympic lifting.

  2. A lot of areas of the world that do Olympic lifting do not have monolifts, squat racks, reverse hypers, leg presses, 6 different specialty bars, etc… They make due with less out of necessity.

Anyway, both try to pitch you forward and thus require your back and quads to do more work. One is hard on your shoulders if you have sketchy joints, the other is not.

I did also notice this when I used one a while back. I think I had my issues with the safety bar though too. I need to become more familiar with it before I just dump a boat load of cash on a EliteFTS Yoke bar.

Greg Panora seems to love it. Jim Wendler seems to love it. Louie Simmons seems to love it. I saw a guy at my last gym squatting 580 for sets of 8 using it. He seemed to love it.

AGAIN, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I WANT TO LEARN.

829

Tomorrow I will start my lift with more Kroc Rows.

This will be to just prefatigue the back.

I will then resume my normal lifting schedule.

I totally skipped training my biceps directly this week, so I may do those after deadlifts.

I should really start training traps directly. I noticed that at the Arnold Classic this year, all of the guys there with world records had ridiculous traps. I don’t think it was just a coincidence.

I think it would be awesome to put some high rep log pressing into my bench workout if my joints can handle it.

I may post back later if I find more to say.

Thanks for reading everyone!

830

Woth my experience front squatting, which is about about the last year consistently, you have to be flexible. Its hard to keep the position, thoracic mobility helps a ton. Wrist flexibilty helps a ton. Not being that hyoooge helps as well. I have had the same discomfort you are describing and it went away quickly with front squatting three times a week for a while.

Achey front delt for a few days. I basically just got used to it. At this point I never notice any discomfort at this point because I built up a tolerance to it. I have also never used a ssb, but it sounds like an expensive front squat. With ssb you hit depth easier, it forces you to keep everything tight because it pitches you forward, you are more upright, but you can go for higher repss because your trachea isnt being smashed.

I personally would try front squatting a few more times after and upper body day to not limit myself woth shoulder discomfort. This is rambly, sorry. Also take it for what its worth, I havent lifted for decades.

831

[quote]Ass Banana wrote:
Woth my experience front squatting, which is about about the last year consistently, you have to be flexible. Its hard to keep the position, thoracic mobility helps a ton. Wrist flexibilty helps a ton. Not being that hyoooge helps as well. I have had the same discomfort you are describing and it went away quickly with front squatting three times a week for a while. Achey front delt for a few days. I basically just got used to it. At this point I never notice any discomfort at this point because I built up a tolerance to it. I have also never used a ssb, but it sounds like an expensive front squat. With ssb you hit depth easier, it forces you to keep everything tight because it pitches you forward, you are more upright, but you can go for higher repss because your trachea isnt being smashed. I personally would try front squatting a few more times after and upper body day to not limit myself woth shoulder discomfort. This is rambly, sorry. Also take it for what its worth, I havent lifted for decades.[/quote]

Why haven’t you lifted for decades?

I am going to let my shoulder calm down a bit, and if I feel solid the next time I have a squat workout, I will give it a try. And, that is only because you have asked me to.

832

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]Ass Banana wrote:
Woth my experience front squatting, which is about about the last year consistently, you have to be flexible. Its hard to keep the position, thoracic mobility helps a ton. Wrist flexibilty helps a ton. Not being that hyoooge helps as well. I have had the same discomfort you are describing and it went away quickly with front squatting three times a week for a while. Achey front delt for a few days. I basically just got used to it. At this point I never notice any discomfort at this point because I built up a tolerance to it. I have also never used a ssb, but it sounds like an expensive front squat. With ssb you hit depth easier, it forces you to keep everything tight because it pitches you forward, you are more upright, but you can go for higher repss because your trachea isnt being smashed. I personally would try front squatting a few more times after and upper body day to not limit myself woth shoulder discomfort. This is rambly, sorry. Also take it for what its worth, I havent lifted for decades.[/quote]

Why haven’t you lifted for decades?

I am going to let my shoulder calm down a bit, and if I feel solid the next time I have a squat workout, I will give it a try. And, that is only because you have asked me to.[/quote]

Im not klokov, I didnt start lifting at like 8 ha. They definitely arent a comfortable exercise to learn and it takes time to get used to the abusive nature of the she beast.

833

[quote]Ass Banana wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]Ass Banana wrote:
Woth my experience front squatting, which is about about the last year consistently, you have to be flexible. Its hard to keep the position, thoracic mobility helps a ton. Wrist flexibilty helps a ton. Not being that hyoooge helps as well. I have had the same discomfort you are describing and it went away quickly with front squatting three times a week for a while. Achey front delt for a few days. I basically just got used to it. At this point I never notice any discomfort at this point because I built up a tolerance to it. I have also never used a ssb, but it sounds like an expensive front squat. With ssb you hit depth easier, it forces you to keep everything tight because it pitches you forward, you are more upright, but you can go for higher repss because your trachea isnt being smashed. I personally would try front squatting a few more times after and upper body day to not limit myself woth shoulder discomfort. This is rambly, sorry. Also take it for what its worth, I havent lifted for decades.[/quote]

Why haven’t you lifted for decades?

I am going to let my shoulder calm down a bit, and if I feel solid the next time I have a squat workout, I will give it a try. And, that is only because you have asked me to.[/quote]
Im not klokov, I didnt start lifting at like 8 ha. They definitely arent a comfortable exercise to learn and it takes time to get used to the abusive nature of the she beast.[/quote]

I wish I would have started sooner. Nobody knew anything about anything where I am from (northeast Ohio). I actually had a trainer talk me out of doing 5x5 when I was playing football in high school in favor of crossfit type training. I was 155 lbs.

My goal in life is to open a gym for strength athletes, and to help people that were lost like me, and who have the heart to thrive in a strength sport, find their way.

Let’s face it. Powerlifting is never going to be a popular sport. It hurts too much, takes too much time/thought/effort, and gets more difficult as you get better.

No “regular people” are going to take this up as a sport, and that is going to be the angle that I market my gym.

I have a few buddies that are looking for a new building to run a MMA school out of, and I think I am going to contract/partner with them to make it all happen. There are enough “health clubs” out there. If people want to be healthy, they can go to a big box gym. If they want to be bigger, stronger, leaner, faster, more agile, or flexible and there are no preconceived limitations on their success or willingness to endure, I want to provide a place that promotes that kind of success.

834

7/20/14

Kroc Row
10x130 (Felt heavy. Decent form.)
10x110 (Felt really easy. Good form.)
10x100 (Felt easy. Strict form.)
5x100 (Done in a very controlled fashion, with a very slow contraction phase.)

T-Bar Row
10x20
10x50
10x75
10x100
10?x125 (Lost count, so I think I did more than 10 reps. Good form.)
10x150 (Good reps. Happy with these.)
10x175 (Kind of sloppy form. Had to breathe between reps to get to 10.)
10x150
10x150
10x150 (This set was especially good for form.)

Cable Rope Pushdown
10x10/20/30/42 (No rest between sets.)
10x42
10x42
10x42
10x42
10x42
10x42
(Had that firey sensation the whole time I was doing these.)

Single-Arm Cable Rope Pushdowns
20 lbs on stack for set of 5 alternating until I felt like my pump was satisfactory. I didn’t keep track of these sets. I just did them and made sure that the work was even on each side.

This was a pretty good assistance lift.

Shoulders and arms are feeling alright.

835

Since I have exams coming up this week, I may deadlift tomorrow.

Normally I would take the day off and do my deadlift workout on Tuesday, but I don’t want to take a chance on getting behind on either my work or my lifting.

I am not sure yet though.

Thanks for reading everyone!

836

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]Ass Banana wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]Ass Banana wrote:
Woth my experience front squatting, which is about about the last year consistently, you have to be flexible. Its hard to keep the position, thoracic mobility helps a ton. Wrist flexibilty helps a ton. Not being that hyoooge helps as well. I have had the same discomfort you are describing and it went away quickly with front squatting three times a week for a while. Achey front delt for a few days. I basically just got used to it. At this point I never notice any discomfort at this point because I built up a tolerance to it. I have also never used a ssb, but it sounds like an expensive front squat. With ssb you hit depth easier, it forces you to keep everything tight because it pitches you forward, you are more upright, but you can go for higher repss because your trachea isnt being smashed. I personally would try front squatting a few more times after and upper body day to not limit myself woth shoulder discomfort. This is rambly, sorry. Also take it for what its worth, I havent lifted for decades.[/quote]

Why haven’t you lifted for decades?

I am going to let my shoulder calm down a bit, and if I feel solid the next time I have a squat workout, I will give it a try. And, that is only because you have asked me to.[/quote]
Im not klokov, I didnt start lifting at like 8 ha. They definitely arent a comfortable exercise to learn and it takes time to get used to the abusive nature of the she beast.[/quote]

I wish I would have started sooner. Nobody knew anything about anything where I am from (northeast Ohio). I actually had a trainer talk me out of doing 5x5 when I was playing football in high school in favor of crossfit type training. I was 155 lbs.

My goal in life is to open a gym for strength athletes, and to help people that were lost like me, and who have the heart to thrive in a strength sport, find their way.

Let’s face it. Powerlifting is never going to be a popular sport. It hurts too much, takes too much time/thought/effort, and gets more difficult as you get better.

No “regular people” are going to take this up as a sport, and that is going to be the angle that I market my gym.

I have a few buddies that are looking for a new building to run a MMA school out of, and I think I am going to contract/partner with them to make it all happen. There are enough “health clubs” out there. If people want to be healthy, they can go to a big box gym. If they want to be bigger, stronger, leaner, faster, more agile, or flexible and there are no preconceived limitations on their success or willingness to endure, I want to provide a place that promotes that kind of success.[/quote]
Northeast ohio isnt too far from me if I actually end up moving to southeast Michigan. If I move we should train sometime man. Depends on job offers for me currently, and that gym would be awesome.

837

[quote]Ass Banana wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]Ass Banana wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:

[quote]Ass Banana wrote:
Woth my experience front squatting, which is about about the last year consistently, you have to be flexible. Its hard to keep the position, thoracic mobility helps a ton. Wrist flexibilty helps a ton. Not being that hyoooge helps as well. I have had the same discomfort you are describing and it went away quickly with front squatting three times a week for a while. Achey front delt for a few days. I basically just got used to it. At this point I never notice any discomfort at this point because I built up a tolerance to it. I have also never used a ssb, but it sounds like an expensive front squat. With ssb you hit depth easier, it forces you to keep everything tight because it pitches you forward, you are more upright, but you can go for higher repss because your trachea isnt being smashed. I personally would try front squatting a few more times after and upper body day to not limit myself woth shoulder discomfort. This is rambly, sorry. Also take it for what its worth, I havent lifted for decades.[/quote]

Why haven’t you lifted for decades?

I am going to let my shoulder calm down a bit, and if I feel solid the next time I have a squat workout, I will give it a try. And, that is only because you have asked me to.[/quote]
Im not klokov, I didnt start lifting at like 8 ha. They definitely arent a comfortable exercise to learn and it takes time to get used to the abusive nature of the she beast.[/quote]

I wish I would have started sooner. Nobody knew anything about anything where I am from (northeast Ohio). I actually had a trainer talk me out of doing 5x5 when I was playing football in high school in favor of crossfit type training. I was 155 lbs.

My goal in life is to open a gym for strength athletes, and to help people that were lost like me, and who have the heart to thrive in a strength sport, find their way.

Let’s face it. Powerlifting is never going to be a popular sport. It hurts too much, takes too much time/thought/effort, and gets more difficult as you get better.

No “regular people” are going to take this up as a sport, and that is going to be the angle that I market my gym.

I have a few buddies that are looking for a new building to run a MMA school out of, and I think I am going to contract/partner with them to make it all happen. There are enough “health clubs” out there. If people want to be healthy, they can go to a big box gym. If they want to be bigger, stronger, leaner, faster, more agile, or flexible and there are no preconceived limitations on their success or willingness to endure, I want to provide a place that promotes that kind of success.[/quote]
Northeast ohio isnt too far from me if I actually end up moving to southeast Michigan. If I move we should train sometime man. Depends on job offers for me currently, and that gym would be awesome.[/quote]

Yeah man, that sounds awesome.

I am considering opening my own gym as well.

I am working on finishing up my master’s degree at the moment, and kind of in the same boat regarding looking for work. I think that I will probably end up in the Akron/Canton area if I stay in Ohio.

838

7/22/14

Deadlift
10x135 (5 were sumo, 5 were conventional)
5x185
3x225
5x250
5x290
12x330 (Belted. Right hand up.)
5x365 (Belted. Right hand up.)
5x405 (Belted. Right hand up. I think I may have left one in the tank here.)
5x295 (Beltless. Double overhand.)
5x295 (Beltless. Double overhand.)
6x295 (Beltless. Double overhand.)

Stiff Leg Deadlift
5x260 (Beltless. Double overhand.)
5x260 (Beltless. Double overhand.)
5x260 (Beltless. Double overhand.)
6x260 (Beltless. Double overhand.)
5x260 (Beltless. Double overhand.)
5x260 (Beltless. Double overhand.)
5x260 (Beltless. Double overhand.)
(Right leg felt like it got a little better work than the left with stiff legs today. I am not sure why. I think the floor was uneven and it was causing the bar to roll out of position on me, but I am not sure.)

I was having left biceps soreness/feelings, so I did all of my work with my right hand supinated. So, that is the reason for that. I don’t want to have any issues when I can avoid them.

My reps felt slow today, but I didn’t fail any. I am satisfied with this performance. I wish my form was better. I am not sure what is up.

839

I have exams coming up this week, so if I disappear for a few days, that is the reason why.

Thanks for reading everyone!

Have a good night.

840

Good luck on the exams, brother!