[quote]Ass Banana wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
I haven’t had any groin pain since, and I checked myself for hernias. (That is definitely one perk of being in a healthcare profession. I can do my own physical exams for simple problems haha.)[/quote]
Pretty sure like 95% of the reason I am a physical therapist assistant is to diagnose my own problems lol.[/quote]
You can pause a rep and get some instant medical feedback before your next rep haha.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
Single Arm Rope Pushdowns
(I did these to correct my asymmetrical pump. Normally I am against this type of thing, but I just felt like it had to be done. I didn’t keep track of these sets or reps. I just went off of how my arms felt. I definitely do not recommend this, nor am I going to make a habit out of it.)[/quote]
Why are you against this?[/quote]
I did more reps on one side than the other to chase a pump. I typically like my workouts to be identical symmetrically.
This is in line with the 360 muscle principle that was devised by HolyMac (not sure if the guy is even posting here any more).
[quote]trivium wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
Single Arm Rope Pushdowns
(I did these to correct my asymmetrical pump. Normally I am against this type of thing, but I just felt like it had to be done. I didn’t keep track of these sets or reps. I just went off of how my arms felt. I definitely do not recommend this, nor am I going to make a habit out of it.)[/quote]
Why are you against this?[/quote]
I did more reps on one side than the other to chase a pump. I typically like my workouts to be identical symmetrically.
This is in line with the 360 muscle principle that was devised by HolyMac (not sure if the guy is even posting here any more).[/quote]
Oh, I see. I thought you were just against the idea of unilateral pushdowns altogether. Personally, I just recently started using them to try and balance some things out… weak side first, then match the reps with the strong side.
I apparently have some scoliosis in my thoracic spine that I didn’t know about until last week, but there’s a whole bunch of stuff askew still. On my left side, my upper traps and arms get are more developed; on my right side, my deltoids are more developed. I don’t really know how much of that is spine related, elbow related or what, but I’m trying to even some of it out.
Also, what is this 360 muscle principle? I know guys like HolyMac, C_C and MODOK had a lot of theories, but it’s hard to piece through if you don’t know the right threads to look in.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Also, what is this 360 muscle principle? I know guys like HolyMac, C_C and MODOK had a lot of theories, but it’s hard to piece through if you don’t know the right threads to look in.[/quote]
7/13/14
YTWL/APLEY/BDL/BPA
Press
10x45
5x45
5x95
3x115
5x125
5x145
5x165 (Paused. Failed 6th rep. Not happy about this.)
4x165 (Paused. No fail.)
5x145 (Paused. No fail.)
5x145 (Paused. No fail.)
5x145 (Paused. No fail.)
Dips
10/10/10/10/5/10/5 (Sets of 5 were performed really slow. These felt pretty good.)
I don’t know what happened here.
I will admit. I skipped my Pull Ups tonight…
It was for good reason though.
I meant to go home and do them, but I got engrossed in reading a post from George Leeman on Facebook.
It was one of the best weightlifting debates I have read in forever.
Several big names were in there.
I was only able to garner a few small things, but it was eye opening. I can sum it up in a later post if you guys want.
A lot of my own training theory was confirmed in the shuffle. I had to read in between the lines a ton to come across this, but it was there, especially if you know what you are looking for and scrutinizing the hell out of every comment.
Anyway, the plan is that tomorrow I will make up my Pull Ups.
The following day will be an assistance day.
The following day will be Squat day.
As always, thank you for reading everyone!
Have a good night.
7/14/14
Pull Ups
10/10/10/10/10/5/5
Felt good. Having some small aches and pains afterward. Not a big deal.
My lats were sore as hell earlier today. I think that dips really hit my lats hard for some reason.
On a side note, life is getting pretty crazy with school and work.
I just want to catch up on everyone’s logs again, like I used to.
Anyway, thank you for reading everyone!
Have a good night.
[quote]trivium wrote:
I was only able to garner a few small things, but it was eye opening. I can sum it up in a later post if you guys want.
A lot of my own training theory was confirmed in the shuffle. I had to read in between the lines a ton to come across this, but it was there, especially if you know what you are looking for and scrutinizing the hell out of every comment.[/quote]
If you would summarize it, I’d like to read it.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
I was only able to garner a few small things, but it was eye opening. I can sum it up in a later post if you guys want.
A lot of my own training theory was confirmed in the shuffle. I had to read in between the lines a ton to come across this, but it was there, especially if you know what you are looking for and scrutinizing the hell out of every comment.[/quote]
If you would summarize it, I’d like to read it.[/quote]
Ok…
George Leeman says 5x5 sucks…
People get really mad, saying he is an idiot for making such a claim…
Dan Green comments on the fact that if your program stalls, you should change programs (obviously good advice).
A shit ton of guys start taking Leeman’s side, and a shit ton are diggin in at the 5x5 camp.
Conversation stagnates while everyone makes the typical “you mad bro” remarks.
People bring up that ED COAN told Leeman to get on an organized program and to stop fucking around.
Leeman says that all people should train like he does and that beginner programs like 5x5 are shitty.
He continues to assert this, yet fails to post an alternative.
TONS OF PEOPLE ARE COMMENTING ON WANTING HIM TO THROW UP AN ALTERNATE PROGRAM FOR BEGINNERS IF 5x5 sucks.
Finally, in the subtleties you can read that George Leeman does 20 rep sets. In theory we can speculate that he microloads using 20 rep sets, then over time adds weight which will slowly bring down the reps and convert the volume into maximal strength. (Example start with 1x20 and then add 5 lbs a week until you hit a 1 rep max years from now, type training.) Essentially this is a linear, extremely lengthy version of 5/3/1. It ensures continuous progress and no plateau if you are intense enough (a very George Leeman thing). When you stall or get injured, you deload back down to 20 reps and build back up.
People keep commenting and George makes the assertion that he can improve 5x5 if someone posts a goal.
Someone says “to get stronger.”
He says “face pulls.”
Someone says they are running RTS and wants to get stronger…
He says “face pulls.”
He continues to post that neglecting bodyparts leads to imbalances and subsequent injuries.
States that ALL 5x5 programs neglect bodyparts and that he, BECAUSE HE CAN OUTLIFT EVERYONE IN THE THREAD, is right.
Then posts Jonnie Candito…
Candito points out that Ray Williams, a much stronger, and more accomplished lifter has almost exclusively used 5x5.
Everyone posts and tries to jump Candito.
Candito explains that his post was to show that outliers cannot be used to determine the effectiveness of the program.
Leeman concedes that programs are just tools, and have their time and place.
Candito wins.
This goes to show you that ALL OR NOTHING MENTALITIES ARE THE DEATH OF PROGRESS, AND THAT YOUR TOTAL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ABILITY TO REASON AND BUILD PROGRAMS THAT WORK FOR EVERYONE.
Leeman says he would never release a stock program for beginners because he would only make tailored ones, and he continues to plug his personal training…which is for sale…
Candito makes a few more good posts to the haters, and peaces out like a fucking boss.
I will say that Louie Simmons said it best…“Everything works, but it only works for so long.”
When you stagnate, try something else, reason it out, plan ahead. Maybe a cookie cutter program isn’t for you, but you can always learn from a program and utilize the theory to keep progressing.
I hope this was adequate.
All in all, I was pretty disappointed with some of the posters, including Leeman at times.
I think he was trying to make a very good point, but he didn’t verbalize it well. It was easily misinterpreted, and therefore was taken out of context. He tried to defend it, without explaining it. Very, very few people were able to read between the lines.
The point is that, as Jonnie Candito pointed out, you cannot use the exception to prove the rule, and that world class lifters are the exception. As he states, anyone with half a brain will know that you can set up a 5x5 to work very, very well if you have a basic knowledge of programming. The problem is the only way to garner that knowledge is to have experience.
I insist that the only thing I see that is different between programs is that some stress volume, some stress frequency, some stress intensity, some stress two of those. The more you stress the more you need to recover. Bottom line is that all programs boil down to that very principle, and nothing more. Any intelligent plan will work at a given point in time. The question becomes “what time is the right time to use said program?”
Too often we get stuck thinking about the one way a program has to be run, when it is possible that you can personalize it a bit and make it work better for you. This takes time to figure out though. I think that was George Leeman’s point.
[quote]trivium wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
I was only able to garner a few small things, but it was eye opening. I can sum it up in a later post if you guys want.
A lot of my own training theory was confirmed in the shuffle. I had to read in between the lines a ton to come across this, but it was there, especially if you know what you are looking for and scrutinizing the hell out of every comment.[/quote]
If you would summarize it, I’d like to read it.[/quote]
Ok…
George Leeman says 5x5 sucks…
People get really mad, saying he is an idiot for making such a claim…
Dan Green comments on the fact that if your program stalls, you should change programs (obviously good advice).
A shit ton of guys start taking Leeman’s side, and a shit ton are diggin in at the 5x5 camp.
Conversation stagnates while everyone makes the typical “you mad bro” remarks.
People bring up that ED COAN told Leeman to get on an organized program and to stop fucking around.
Leeman says that all people should train like he does and that beginner programs like 5x5 are shitty.
He continues to assert this, yet fails to post an alternative.
TONS OF PEOPLE ARE COMMENTING ON WANTING HIM TO THROW UP AN ALTERNATE PROGRAM FOR BEGINNERS IF 5x5 sucks.
Finally, in the subtleties you can read that George Leeman does 20 rep sets. In theory we can speculate that he microloads using 20 rep sets, then over time adds weight which will slowly bring down the reps and convert the volume into maximal strength. (Example start with 1x20 and then add 5 lbs a week until you hit a 1 rep max years from now, type training.) Essentially this is a linear, extremely lengthy version of 5/3/1. It ensures continuous progress and no plateau if you are intense enough (a very George Leeman thing). When you stall or get injured, you deload back down to 20 reps and build back up.
People keep commenting and George makes the assertion that he can improve 5x5 if someone posts a goal.
Someone says “to get stronger.”
He says “face pulls.”
Someone says they are running RTS and wants to get stronger…
He says “face pulls.”
He continues to post that neglecting bodyparts leads to imbalances and subsequent injuries.
States that ALL 5x5 programs neglect bodyparts and that he, BECAUSE HE CAN OUTLIFT EVERYONE IN THE THREAD, is right.
Then posts Jonnie Candito…
Candito points out that Ray Williams, a much stronger, and more accomplished lifter has almost exclusively used 5x5.
Everyone posts and tries to jump Candito.
Candito explains that his post was to show that outliers cannot be used to determine the effectiveness of the program.
Leeman concedes that programs are just tools, and have their time and place.
Candito wins.
This goes to show you that ALL OR NOTHING MENTALITIES ARE THE DEATH OF PROGRESS, AND THAT YOUR TOTAL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ABILITY TO REASON AND BUILD PROGRAMS THAT WORK FOR EVERYONE.
Leeman says he would never release a stock program for beginners because he would only make tailored ones, and he continues to plug his personal training…which is for sale…
Candito makes a few more good posts to the haters, and peaces out like a fucking boss.
I will say that Louie Simmons said it best…“Everything works, but it only works for so long.”
When you stagnate, try something else, reason it out, plan ahead. Maybe a cookie cutter program isn’t for you, but you can always learn from a program and utilize the theory to keep progressing.
I hope this was adequate.[/quote]
Thanks for the spark notes…Johnnie is a boss
He was the only person who made a somewhat intelligent post.
I mean if you are completely stalled in one rep range, why not move to another?
If 5x5 works for you about 20 years, why would you switch?
[quote]chobbs wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
I was only able to garner a few small things, but it was eye opening. I can sum it up in a later post if you guys want.
A lot of my own training theory was confirmed in the shuffle. I had to read in between the lines a ton to come across this, but it was there, especially if you know what you are looking for and scrutinizing the hell out of every comment.[/quote]
If you would summarize it, I’d like to read it.[/quote]
Ok…
George Leeman says 5x5 sucks…
People get really mad, saying he is an idiot for making such a claim…
Dan Green comments on the fact that if your program stalls, you should change programs (obviously good advice).
A shit ton of guys start taking Leeman’s side, and a shit ton are diggin in at the 5x5 camp.
Conversation stagnates while everyone makes the typical “you mad bro” remarks.
People bring up that ED COAN told Leeman to get on an organized program and to stop fucking around.
Leeman says that all people should train like he does and that beginner programs like 5x5 are shitty.
He continues to assert this, yet fails to post an alternative.
TONS OF PEOPLE ARE COMMENTING ON WANTING HIM TO THROW UP AN ALTERNATE PROGRAM FOR BEGINNERS IF 5x5 sucks.
Finally, in the subtleties you can read that George Leeman does 20 rep sets. In theory we can speculate that he microloads using 20 rep sets, then over time adds weight which will slowly bring down the reps and convert the volume into maximal strength. (Example start with 1x20 and then add 5 lbs a week until you hit a 1 rep max years from now, type training.) Essentially this is a linear, extremely lengthy version of 5/3/1. It ensures continuous progress and no plateau if you are intense enough (a very George Leeman thing). When you stall or get injured, you deload back down to 20 reps and build back up.
People keep commenting and George makes the assertion that he can improve 5x5 if someone posts a goal.
Someone says “to get stronger.”
He says “face pulls.”
Someone says they are running RTS and wants to get stronger…
He says “face pulls.”
He continues to post that neglecting bodyparts leads to imbalances and subsequent injuries.
States that ALL 5x5 programs neglect bodyparts and that he, BECAUSE HE CAN OUTLIFT EVERYONE IN THE THREAD, is right.
Then posts Jonnie Candito…
Candito points out that Ray Williams, a much stronger, and more accomplished lifter has almost exclusively used 5x5.
Everyone posts and tries to jump Candito.
Candito explains that his post was to show that outliers cannot be used to determine the effectiveness of the program.
Leeman concedes that programs are just tools, and have their time and place.
Candito wins.
This goes to show you that ALL OR NOTHING MENTALITIES ARE THE DEATH OF PROGRESS, AND THAT YOUR TOTAL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ABILITY TO REASON AND BUILD PROGRAMS THAT WORK FOR EVERYONE.
Leeman says he would never release a stock program for beginners because he would only make tailored ones, and he continues to plug his personal training…which is for sale…
Candito makes a few more good posts to the haters, and peaces out like a fucking boss.
I will say that Louie Simmons said it best…“Everything works, but it only works for so long.”
When you stagnate, try something else, reason it out, plan ahead. Maybe a cookie cutter program isn’t for you, but you can always learn from a program and utilize the theory to keep progressing.
I hope this was adequate.[/quote]
Thanks for the spark notes…Johnnie is a boss[/quote]
I like him. (Especially because he liked my comment.)
I am not saying he is always right, but he does always have a great reason for what he says/does/recommends.
Thanks for the writeup. I know nothing about Candito, other than the occasional mention of some Candito program in the forums here (just in the last couple months).
One of the things I latched onto pretty early was that it’s much more about principles than details. The details can vary wildly by person, but the basic principles remain the same. I also realized that psychological factors matter too – e.g., Leeman likes to train the way he trains because it “works” for him, psychologically, not necessarily because it’s optimal for anyone, not even him. CT, as an example, prefers to use performance-style training and low rep ranges because it’s his preference… although he’s tried very hard to find ways to use that style of training to achieve a wide array of goals.
Which really brings it back to principles, not the details. I laughed when T3hPwnisher wrote it the other day, but he said, word-for-word, “I am inclined to believe that lifting weights will make you stronger. Keep it up and see what happens.” when someone was trying to overthink some aspect of their programming. But at some level, it really is that simple. Do what works for you; when it stops working for you, find something else that works.
StrongLifts 5x5 didn’t work for me when I first did it, because I wasn’t in the right place mentally. Two years (or maybe 3?) later since I first tried and abandoned that, 5x5 seems to be working quite well for me. 20 rep squats also worked well for me for awhile.
At some point I think everything needs to be customized for yourself. Programs are a starting point to learn about yourself, but they’re like training wheels in that you’re still doing most of the work, but if you want to take things to the next level, you have to take more control over things.
I’m not ready to take over everything, but pieces of it I’m starting to get a pretty good handle over.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Thanks for the writeup. I know nothing about Candito, other than the occasional mention of some Candito program in the forums here (just in the last couple months).
One of the things I latched onto pretty early was that it’s much more about principles than details. The details can vary wildly by person, but the basic principles remain the same. I also realized that psychological factors matter too – e.g., Leeman likes to train the way he trains because it “works” for him, psychologically, not necessarily because it’s optimal for anyone, not even him. CT, as an example, prefers to use performance-style training and low rep ranges because it’s his preference… although he’s tried very hard to find ways to use that style of training to achieve a wide array of goals.
Which really brings it back to principles, not the details. I laughed when T3hPwnisher wrote it the other day, but he said, word-for-word, “I am inclined to believe that lifting weights will make you stronger. Keep it up and see what happens.” when someone was trying to overthink some aspect of their programming. But at some level, it really is that simple. Do what works for you; when it stops working for you, find something else that works.
StrongLifts 5x5 didn’t work for me when I first did it, because I wasn’t in the right place mentally. Two years (or maybe 3?) later since I first tried and abandoned that, 5x5 seems to be working quite well for me. 20 rep squats also worked well for me for awhile.
At some point I think everything needs to be customized for yourself. Programs are a starting point to learn about yourself, but they’re like training wheels in that you’re still doing most of the work, but if you want to take things to the next level, you have to take more control over things.
I’m not ready to take over everything, but pieces of it I’m starting to get a pretty good handle over.[/quote]
The beautiful thing is that there are so many programs. There is no need for anything to be “all this way” or “this and only this.” That kind of all-or-nothing mentality is the death of progress, AND it could cause someone you are giving advice to to stall out if you don’t pay attention or you don’t know shit about lifting and you just regurgitate advice that you hear on the web.
Maybe a program stalled because you have a weak spot.
Maybe a program stalled because your form is breaking down.
Maybe a program stalled because you are not recovering well due to frequency/volume/intensity.
Maybe a program stalled because you are spending too much time doing sets in the 1 to 3 rep range.
Maybe a program stalled because it was built for someone with different leverages?
Maybe a program stalled because you are not producing enough force with that percentage of weight?
You can take any program and poke holes in it if you get picky enough.
The fact is that you will always need to make a goal, have a logical plan, and be willing to work hard enough to see results. That is about it.
Everything else is arbitrary when you really get down to it.
I recommend 5/3/1 so heavily because you can modify the hell out of it.
I can change my workout template from month to month and still technically be running 5/3/1, AND I keep my main lifts the same to keep building/assessing progress regardless of the template. I never have to recalculate to start a new template, I just switch.
It is so simple.
7/15/14
Face Pull
5x100/120
20x150 (This was the whole stack. It felt so ridiculously light.)
15+5x150 (Re-gripped. Just didn’t get a solid grip before I started.)
20x150
20x150
20x150
20x150 (This set was so easy.)
(I felt a nice burn with some of these sets.)
Face Pull (moved to a different stack)
Entire stack for sets of 10/10/10*
(This stack felt heavier.)
(During the last set, marked with an *, I was pulling more toward the bridge of my nose than my forehead.)
Dumbbell Rear Lateral Raise
20 lb dumbbell for sets of 15/15/10*/10*/10*/10/10/10/10$
(All sets marked * were actually sets of 15. The set marked with a $ was poor rep quality.)
I skipped out on curls today.
I will do them tomorrow as part of my squat workout.
I just got out of work late, and ran out of time at the gym. It closes at 10.