Too Muscular for Spec Ops?

Off Topic
41

Oh…my apologies California Law, I didn’t realize I had to state my qualifications and clear them through you before I posted.
So, for the record, I served in the Army from 1991 to 1998 as an MP. Made E-5 after 3 yrs and went to MPI school. Served in Korea (557th MP Co.) and Fort Hood (multiple units).

Worked as the point man on a MP Special Reaction Team while in Korea, and while there, went to a hostage rescue school which was taught by the 1st Battalion, 1SFG(A) out of Okinawa.
I am now a police officer in a large city in Texas, and have been since 1998.

PM me if you want, and i’ll even send you documentation and a nice pic since I have to prove my life experience to you.
Believe it or not, you ARE NOT the only police officer on this board, you ARE NOT the only person who has had any life experience in the military, and you ARE NOT the only person on this board who has ever spoken to, or worked around, Spec Ops personnel. You are also not the only person entitled to an opinion around here, and let me assure you, my life experience is NO LESS VALID than yours.

What you ARE is a piss poor representation of our profession, and an embarrassment to anyone who wears a badge. Furthermore, if you were in fact in OCS and became a commissioned officer, then that would go a long way towards explaining why you are such an arrogant prick.
And don’t send me any crap about being an MP or anything else…trust me, the dumbest enlisted MP I ever met was 10 x smarter than any 2LT I ever met, of any MOS.

42

“Too big” doesn’t matter if you have the cardiovascular system to go along with it.

If you can run hard (6 min/mile)for a few miles, swim hard and have good lung capacity it doesnt matter how much muscle you carry.

If you carry a lot of muscle, get winded after a 2 mile run and have a hard time swimming strong in open water you are in trouble though and honestly losing a bit of muscle could help your endurance activities.

In the end, barring injury, its 99% mental once you pass the indoc. No matter how much of a stud you are they will push you to a breaking point.

43

[quote]slimjim wrote:
This thread actually really depresses me because I am in the process of training for BUD/S. I knew I would have to lose weight because I was 230(14% bf give or take a few percent.)

I gave myself 10 months to train before leaving, figuring I would not diet down an extreme amount but rather allow body comp to follow my training regime. Basically I do 3 full body workouts a week as a supplement to running and swimming. After two months I’m sitting at 5’10" and 215, but if 172 is too heavy, I’ve got some serious dieting to do because I had been planning to go in at 190. Which I’m still actually planning to do.[/quote]

If you are in the Navy already, and I assume you are, go search out some SEALS or call the school house and find out what your training requirements are. There is no magic body composition formula for any of this stuff. If you can hack it and you meet the standards (including height and weight) then you will graduate.

Are the instructors going to screw with you? Yes, welcome to the military.
Is the training methods or program secret? No, you can get most of the information before you go, or at least enough to be ready for the school.
Is the training hard? Yes, that puts the “Special” in Special Operations.

There are plenty of resources available to you as a Sailor if you are going to BUD/s. Go look that shit up shipmate.
If you haven’t even gone to Navy Boot Camp yet, then don’t worry about being a SEAL. You will probably lose weight at Boot Camp and then you will be fine.

44

[quote]slimjim wrote:
This thread actually really depresses me because I am in the process of training for BUD/S. I knew I would have to lose weight because I was 230(14% bf give or take a few percent.)

I gave myself 10 months to train before leaving, figuring I would not diet down an extreme amount but rather allow body comp to follow my training regime. Basically I do 3 full body workouts a week as a supplement to running and swimming. After two months I’m sitting at 5’10" and 215, but if 172 is too heavy, I’ve got some serious dieting to do because I had been planning to go in at 190. Which I’m still actually planning to do.[/quote]

Which is a good plan… It’s ok to have that kind of mass heading in becuase 1st phase is going to make your body eat itself. Read Dick Couch’s “Warrior Elite” if you haven’t already. But I bet you already have.

45

[quote]lucasa wrote:
First off, you’re 5’10" 172#. You’re no bodybuilder. I and half my HS football team graduated bigger and more muscular than you (I can understand CaliforniaLaw’s dubiousness). [/quote]

Hmmm… Do you have any idea what ripped 17" arms look like? If the OP has 17" arms a 4-7% bodyfat, his arms would look incredible. There’d be no visiable bodyfat and little subq water.

I don’t see a lot of guys with 17" arms at even 10% bodyfat. They are out there, but I’ve found that there are expoentially fewer people at 16", 17", etc. Most guys are in the 15" arm range - at >7% bf.

So I don’t believe you and half your classmates were running around with 17" ripped biceps. 17" with a nice lawyer of fat and even maybe a visible vein or two… sure. But not 17" ripped.

46

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
Oh…my apologies California Law, I didn’t realize I had to state my qualifications and clear them through you before I posted.
So, for the record, I served in the Army from 1991 to 1998 as an MP. Made E-5 after 3 yrs and went to MPI school. Served in Korea (557th MP Co.) and Fort Hood (multiple units).

Worked as the point man on a MP Special Reaction Team while in Korea, and while there, went to a hostage rescue school which was taught by the 1st Battalion, 1SFG(A) out of Okinawa.
I am now a police officer in a large city in Texas, and have been since 1998.

PM me if you want, and i’ll even send you documentation and a nice pic since I have to prove my life experience to you.
Believe it or not, you ARE NOT the only police officer on this board, you ARE NOT the only person who has had any life experience in the military, and you ARE NOT the only person on this board who has ever spoken to, or worked around, Spec Ops personnel. You are also not the only person entitled to an opinion around here, and let me assure you, my life experience is NO LESS VALID than yours.

What you ARE is a piss poor representation of our profession, and an embarrassment to anyone who wears a badge. Furthermore, if you were in fact in OCS and became a commissioned officer, then that would go a long way towards explaining why you are such an arrogant prick.
And don’t send me any crap about being an MP or anything else…trust me, the dumbest enlisted MP I ever met was 10 x smarter than any 2LT I ever met, of any MOS.
[/quote]

You almost had me until the end there.
Either you haven’t met many enlisted MP’s, haven’t met many 2LT’s, or you are exaggerating a zillion percent.
How much is ten times smarter anyway? It would be just as wrong at .01% smarter, but 10X is absurd.
I find it hard to trust a statement like that.

The weakest BJJ in the world could beat any 10 pro boxers at the same time…
trust me.

47

Human 743,

You are correct in that regard, and I should retract that part of the statement. I’m sure it primarily reflects my experience with commissioned officers while in the army, and is one of my flaws, giving in to that prejudice.
The rest of my post, however, still stands.

48

[quote]W8 LOGIC wrote:
I am going to Navy EOD/DIVE school here in about two months and have run into a predicament. For those of u who do not know, Navy EOD stands for Explosive Ordnance Disposal. They are part of Navy Spec Ops which are dive, jump and land warfare qualified. They are just a step down from SEALs in that they dont carry out assassin missions. I have been training for it since I passed to qualification test last July where u have to swim, run, do pushups, situps, and pullups in a certain amount of time. I had only been bodybuilding at the time and passed the test easily with only a 1 day notice. My problem is that the instructors that I see to train with tell me to stop working out and all that muscle mass is worthless. They say that is just for looks and not very functional. Here are my stats:

Height: 5’10"
Weight: 172
BF%: 4-7% (depending on method)
Chest: 47"
Arms: 17"
Waist: 31"
Legs: 22"

I can do 25 pullups without stopping, 115 pushups in two minutes, and 105 situps in two minutes. I run a 10:30 1.5 mile and swim a 10:15 500yd.

I could understand if I was ronnie coleman and couldnt pass the exercises in the alloted times, but I dont really consider myself that big. I have really broad shoulders and back which makes me look around 185 or 190, but there is no way I am too muscular.

I even started taking HOT-ROX and ate chicken, tuna and veggies twice a day but still got harrassed as I dropped down to 162. Thank god I gained it back. I feel like i am trying to please them by dropping weight. Do u guys have any advice? Have any of u come across the same situations? Is being too muscular going to hurt my run and swim times?
[/quote]

I know a few guys on the SEAL Teams and USMC Force Recon. If your numbers are that good then, based on what I’ve been told by the men who’ve actually done the training, you should do fine… so long as your mental training is prepared. I know a current SEAL who is built like an NFL TE and his swim buddy is 150. You are my size but my waist is 38. The mental training has been the key for me to push past the physical.

My bro/best friend was in Recon and since I’m going back to what got me ripped when I was single I asked him to outline a plan for me that would help me get a 275 on the USMC PT test. I’m losing weight but I’ve noticed that when I’m in the game mentally, I can get that one last pullup (25? God bless you) yet when I feel shitty the day sucks. See if you can talk to the shooters near Little Creek. For me, just listening to them is a lesson. Good luck and thanks for serving.

49

[quote]W8 LOGIC wrote:
I am going to Navy EOD/DIVE school here in about two months and have run into a predicament. For those of u who do not know, Navy EOD stands for Explosive Ordnance Disposal. They are part of Navy Spec Ops which are dive, jump and land warfare qualified. They are just a step down from SEALs in that they dont carry out assassin missions.

Your way off dude…quit trying to church it up. EOD is no where close to SEALS, its not even the same ballpark. EOD is not a part of Naval Spec Warfare.

My problem is that the instructors that I see to train with tell me to stop working out and all that muscle mass is worthless. They say that is just for looks and not very functional. Here are my stats:

You know what their right! There talking about the way you carry your muscle on your body. Guys with functional strength carry it in a different way than those who train for looks. Im 5’11" and 225 you know what a bitch it is to get in and out of dive gear in a hurry!

Height: 5’10"
Weight: 172
BF%: 4-7% (depending on method)
Chest: 47"
Arms: 17"
Waist: 31"
Legs: 22"

I can do 25 pullups without stopping, 115 pushups in two minutes, and 105 situps in two minutes. I run a 10:30 1.5 mile and swim a 10:15 500yd.

You need to improve your run time alot. Get your 1.5 down to around 8 min flat!

You were obviously fuckin around during your swim as well.

Do u guys have any advice? Have any of u come across the same situations? Is being too muscular going to hurt my run and swim times?
[/quote]
Yea get a grip on reality! Be honest with yourself. If they got you this worked up already you do not have the mental skill and discipline it takes.
Did you honestly think during your post that SpecWar would’nt chime in to raise the bullshit flag!

Popeye

50

[quote]summa wrote:
My problem is that the instructors that I see to train with tell me to stop working out and all that muscle mass is worthless. They say that is just for looks and not very functional.

Those are some pretty ignorant remarks. Obviously I am ignorant however since I would think you would be an ideal candidate. Hopefully you never get hurt and need your “more functional” 140lb buddy to pull you into safety. Good Luck! [/quote]

They just might not want you to focus on gaining too much mass (which won’t necessarily help all that much, by itself).

Just concentrate a bit more on relative strength: which is to say strength relative to your bodyweight. There are guys who are over 200lbs who can’t even bench either own body weight and there are guys who are 150 who can bench over 300lbs (granted not every can achieve those levels of relative strength).

51

[quote]summa wrote:
My problem is that the instructors that I see to train with tell me to stop working out and all that muscle mass is worthless. They say that is just for looks and not very functional.

Those are some pretty ignorant remarks. Obviously I am ignorant however since I would think you would be an ideal candidate. Hopefully you never get hurt and need your “more functional” 140lb buddy to pull you into safety. Good Luck! [/quote]

The instructors, experienced Spec Ops people, know more about Spec Ops than anybody on this board. Listen to them.

52

[quote]W8 LOGIC wrote:
I am going to Navy EOD/DIVE school here in about two months and have run into a predicament. For those of u who do not know, Navy EOD stands for Explosive Ordnance Disposal. They are part of Navy Spec Ops which are dive, jump and land warfare qualified. They are just a step down from SEALs in that they dont carry out assassin missions. I have been training for it since I passed to qualification test last July where u have to swim, run, do pushups, situps, and pullups in a certain amount of time. I had only been bodybuilding at the time and passed the test easily with only a 1 day notice. My problem is that the instructors that I see to train with tell me to stop working out and all that muscle mass is worthless. They say that is just for looks and not very functional. Here are my stats:

Height: 5’10"
Weight: 172
BF%: 4-7% (depending on method)
Chest: 47"
Arms: 17"
Waist: 31"
Legs: 22"

I can do 25 pullups without stopping, 115 pushups in two minutes, and 105 situps in two minutes. I run a 10:30 1.5 mile and swim a 10:15 500yd.

I could understand if I was ronnie coleman and couldnt pass the exercises in the alloted times, but I dont really consider myself that big. I have really broad shoulders and back which makes me look around 185 or 190, but there is no way I am too muscular.

I even started taking HOT-ROX and ate chicken, tuna and veggies twice a day but still got harrassed as I dropped down to 162. Thank god I gained it back. I feel like i am trying to please them by dropping weight. Do u guys have any advice? Have any of u come across the same situations? Is being too muscular going to hurt my run and swim times?
[/quote]

Hi WB,

I know some special ops guys and although they do say that there are very few hyooge special ops guys, as long as you can handle the training/tests that they put you through, it really doesn’t matter what you look like.

Special ops, and the rest of the military from what I understand, are concerned with performance. Appearance has nothing to do with it. If Ronnie Coleman could qualify for Seals Training, and could pass Hell Week, then he could be a seal.

Also, the most important component is not the physical part. You will never be in good enough shape to make it through Hell Week. The only thing that is going to get you through it is the unrelenting, laser focused, unshakable will to keep going no matter what. If you decide that you’re going to make it and that absolutely nothing is going to stop you, then you have a chance of making it.

I say a chance because unless you’ve ever been really put to a similar kind of test, you don’t really know for sure that you have the will to never give up.

Good luck though and let us know how you do.

Sentoguy

53

Thanks guys for all your input and advice. I do feel that I am there physically, so all I have to worry about is the mental part. I guess the instructors are starting their harrassment a little early. Im just gonna brush it off and keep my mouth shut.

54

[quote]human743 wrote:
mapwhap wrote:
Oh…my apologies California Law, I didn’t realize I had to state my qualifications and clear them through you before I posted.
So, for the record, I served in the Army from 1991 to 1998 as an MP. Made E-5 after 3 yrs and went to MPI school. Served in Korea (557th MP Co.) and Fort Hood (multiple units).

Worked as the point man on a MP Special Reaction Team while in Korea, and while there, went to a hostage rescue school which was taught by the 1st Battalion, 1SFG(A) out of Okinawa.
I am now a police officer in a large city in Texas, and have been since 1998.

PM me if you want, and i’ll even send you documentation and a nice pic since I have to prove my life experience to you.
Believe it or not, you ARE NOT the only police officer on this board, you ARE NOT the only person who has had any life experience in the military, and you ARE NOT the only person on this board who has ever spoken to, or worked around, Spec Ops personnel. You are also not the only person entitled to an opinion around here, and let me assure you, my life experience is NO LESS VALID than yours.

What you ARE is a piss poor representation of our profession, and an embarrassment to anyone who wears a badge. Furthermore, if you were in fact in OCS and became a commissioned officer, then that would go a long way towards explaining why you are such an arrogant prick.
And don’t send me any crap about being an MP or anything else…trust me, the dumbest enlisted MP I ever met was 10 x smarter than any 2LT I ever met, of any MOS.

You almost had me until the end there.
Either you haven’t met many enlisted MP’s, haven’t met many 2LT’s, or you are exaggerating a zillion percent.
How much is ten times smarter anyway? It would be just as wrong at .01% smarter, but 10X is absurd.
I find it hard to trust a statement like that.

The weakest BJJ in the world could beat any 10 pro boxers at the same time…
trust me.[/quote]

The weakest BJJ in the world could beat any 10 pro boxers at the same time…
trust me… not so fast

It’s always a good idea to avoid absolutes. If the pro boxer were to fight a weak BJJ we can expect two results: they fight standing - I’d wager on the boxer OR they fight on the ground - I’d wager on the BJJ

The weakest BJJ is an absolute in that he’s very weak. The pro boxer is an absolute because he’s very strong. Its reasonable to assume that the boxer is in better shape that weak BJJ and could therefore outlast him on the mat and win. The boxer may land a nice jab on BJJ before he can get boxer’s leg and a pro jab can rock a weak fighter’s world. Or, maybe BJJ has a good day and beats boxer. On the mat - I’d wager on the boxer, all things being equal or even an approximation.

For SpecWar there are the muscle guys and the thin guys. Even the master Demmo Dick spoke of his operators being 140 to the size of NFL linebackers. In an interview former SEAL Jessie Ventura discussed how the “Arnolds” did not make it while the skinny bastards did. There are few absolutes that can be applied here IMHO.

55

[quote]W8 LOGIC wrote:

Why do all bodybuilders have to be big?[/quote]

Are you retarded? That’s like asking why do all powerlifters have to lift heavy weights? I agree aesthetics have to play a part, but at 172#, I don’t think aesthetics are holding you back.

Once again, don’t misunderstand me I’m not saying you aren’t capable of being a good bodybuilder, but upon hearing more, I would say you need to cut back/drop the lifting in favor of more running/cardio esp. if you’re sub-par in those areas. And at 5’8", I’m more than acustomed to over/underestimation weightwise.

Your similarity to GSP didn’t go unnoticed:

1- I wouldn’t confuse GSP for a bodybuilder. I think he looks appropriate for the weight he’s listed at. Maybe it’s a top down view vs. bottom up, but I don’t think so.

2- Given the above GSP trains for fights, gets paid to do it, and is very good at it. What are you training for again? I doubt GSP claims to be a bodybuilder.

56

Why dont you just post a picture w8? Thats the only way to shut these guys up.

57

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
lucasa wrote:
First off, you’re 5’10" 172#. You’re no bodybuilder. I and half my HS football team graduated bigger and more muscular than you (I can understand CaliforniaLaw’s dubiousness).

Hmmm… Do you have any idea what ripped 17" arms look like? If the OP has 17" arms a 4-7% bodyfat, his arms would look incredible. There’d be no visiable bodyfat and little subq water.

I don’t see a lot of guys with 17" arms at even 10% bodyfat. They are out there, but I’ve found that there are expoentially fewer people at 16", 17", etc. Most guys are in the 15" arm range - at >7% bf.

So I don’t believe you and half your classmates were running around with 17" ripped biceps. 17" with a nice lawyer of fat and even maybe a visible vein or two… sure. But not 17" ripped.
[/quote]

Now I’m gonna have to side with W8 LOGIC in that you’re just being a contrary dipshit. You start barking about how you don’t believe the BS this guy is spewing and then pick the most fantastic claim he makes, assume it’s correct, and argue against me? I didn’t say we graduated with 17" ripped arms, I said that we graduated more muscular(by LBM) than 5’10" 172#. And sorry, I didn’t do the math to figure out that 50.000% of us were exactly >/= 165.000# LBM. Many graduated above 215# between 10-15% bf.

And who gives a shit about 17" arms if you’ve got 22" ‘I-wouldn’t-call-them-chicken’ thighs to go with it? As far as bodybuilding goes, I’d rather have/be a 5’10", 172#, 5% bf, 15" armed high schooler than in W8 LOGIC’s situation. And if I were SpecOps, I wouldn’t give a shit about Ht.,Wt.,%BF as long as I was kicking ass and taking names.

58

lol @ 5’10" and 170 being too muscular for anything.

59

There is no such thing as too muscular for special ops. Your numbers sound pretty incredible, I’m not going to say that you are FOS, but 4-7% BF!? Unlikely, but who knows… as someone else said, post a pic to shut everyone up.

I have been in “Spec Ops” (which is a singularly gay term IMHO, but a term that everyone seems to use… sadly I don’t have any witty alternative) for nearly 15 years, and I have seen all body types, but almost no one with low BF% like that. Stop being a BB and start being an EOD guy… that is way cooler anyway. Spec Ops is a lifestyle, not a job or career.

Also remember that your instructors are bitter that they are instructors. Most (not all) instructors of special operations are guys that are not ‘operational’ for one reason or another.

Oh, and before anyone bitches… I am an 18C (Special Forces Engineer) who has been on an A-Team (ODA) for almost 13 years. Flame On.

60

[quote]W8 LOGIC wrote:

look at GSP he looks a lot bigger than he weighs.
[/quote]

When you see GSP, he does not weigh what he is listed at. A lot of mma guys lose weight, (mostly water), for weigh ins, so in the actual fight they are considerably heavier than their actual weight class, sometimes by as much as 20 lbs.