To Train to Failure or not to, what is better?

[quote]rambodian wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Training to failure is how I’ve always trained, ever since I could remember. Lift the weight, till you can’t do another full rep. But, ive been reading more and more articles about how not training to failure, to stop 2 reps short. I read one article that says, the moment you explosiveness startes to fade, and you start grinding out the reps, you should stop the set. I now beleive its not the intensity that builds muscle, but just the over all amount of work done. And as long as you keep progressing in your workouts(adding weight) you will get bigger. I have for years would look and feel great for a few weeks, then all of sudden, id look alot smaller and feel like shit. only when I took a few days off, would i feel better again. Since i train each bodypart 2x per week on average, something had to give. I was already doing a fairly low volume workout. So now, I will be reducing the intensity to 1 or 2 reps shy of failure.

Just curious to what others think on this matter.[/quote]

Whats with the haters? he was just asking a question. He doesn’t need to prove shit to no one.

I think its a plausible theory you are going to train by, I always try to leave one rep in the tank when I am power training, but I go to failure when I train in a BB split. I usually do 3-4 months of BB split and then do a strength training method such as 531 for the next 3-4 months. I find that leaving a rep in the tank so to speak is only useful to me when strength training as it keeps me fresh for the next session.

When I am after a growth faze, I train to failure as I allow longer to recover between each body part and get better results that way. I’ve only been training for just on 2yrs so I’m certainly not an expert on it, but a guy I train with that BB all year round never trains to failure as he says it hampers his recovery and describes a situation similar to yours with feeling good than like crap. I guess if I stuck with a bb split all year round, training to failure would be pretty hard all the time.

I do find that bb training wears me down more overall, and I really need to watch my nutrition to keep my energy levels high. I’ve been carrying too much body fat the last 4 months and recently changed back to a bb program, its really hampering my training and that could be why I feel a bit run down with the bb split I’m on, but I still think training to failure with it is beneficial as I think it breaks the muscle tissue down more, well I get bloody sore DOMS with it, so it must be working.
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If you ever get a chance to watch Branch Warren train, on youtube he has some videos. He basically trains explosively, and it seems as soon as his reps lose that explosiveness, he ends the set. Since i do train bodyparts a bit more frequently than others(2x per week), this style of training may be beneficial so I can recover for each session. Time will tell.

[quote]bwhitwell wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Training to failure is how I’ve always trained, ever since I could remember. Lift the weight, till you can’t do another full rep. But, ive been reading more and more articles about how not training to failure, to stop 2 reps short. I read one article that says, the moment you explosiveness startes to fade, and you start grinding out the reps, you should stop the set. I now beleive its not the intensity that builds muscle, but just the over all amount of work done. And as long as you keep progressing in your workouts(adding weight) you will get bigger. I have for years would look and feel great for a few weeks, then all of sudden, id look alot smaller and feel like shit. only when I took a few days off, would i feel better again. Since i train each bodypart 2x per week on average, something had to give. I was already doing a fairly low volume workout. So now, I will be reducing the intensity to 1 or 2 reps shy of failure.

Just curious to what others think on this matter.[/quote]
I agree that training just one way will eventually lose it’s effectiveness, or at least your preceived effectiveness.It is up to the individual to find the best way to train that day for that muscle for your level of development and your goals. I don’t think there is a golden method, there are methods available and it is up to you to find the best method(s). Trial and error. I like the old school method of light(failure) and heavy(not to failure) days.[/quote]

I agree. But you are either recovering from your workouts or you’re not. For me, it seems my body can handle going to failure, but after a few weeks, it catches up to me. I just want to try and avoid that stagnation.

[quote]overstand wrote:
I learned this lesson very recently. I came off cycle and lost strength on my bench press really quick, in like a week. I freaked out and started seriously over-training chest trying desperately to retain the strength I had gained. I was hitting 315 for 10 while on, after a few weeks of trying everything to get back to that I was down to sets of 3-4, worse than before. I took 3 straight days off this weekend unintentionally, ate like shit, came back and hit it for 7 on Monday.

This was my first experience with overtraining and it’s given me a better perspective of my body and it’s natural limits. I think going to failure occasionally is a good thing, every workout not so much (unless you are drug assisted). I am however a firm believer in high intensity workouts. Lifting a weight for a single rep 10 times is not going to do as much for you as grinding out 10 brutal reps where you push your muscles to the limit. Remember your muscles don’t know how much weight is being lifted, only how hard they are having to work. [/quote]

After watching a pro bodybuilder named Branch Warren train, then reading an article shortly after. It showed how he trained. He basically trained fairly explosively, but he didn’t grind out reps, he didn’t struggle with reps till he hit failure. As soon as his explosiveness faded, he did maybe a rep after that, then ended the set. Then he just did the same weight again, in another set. By not going to failure, he was able to lift more weight on the preceeding sets.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
At the start of a cycle (or a new exercise) you usually keep a rep or two in the tank, then as intensity/load increases over the weeks, you push it to the max and milk the gains until overall fatigue builds up and you need to pull back and rebound.

Failure training is simply another method of adding intensiveness to your training (is more fatiguing and requires less volume)

It doesn’t have to be all or nothing, use both methods. Higher volume for some weeks, then drop sets as intensity/load increases and push sets to failure.[/quote]

yep,
done Waterbury bb 8x3-1m rest with 85ish% of my 1rm plus some PL stuff (board press,dead bench) for two months then switched to dbs hit,incidentally my girl (who I didnt see for 2 months)said that I was bigger (and 12lb lighter:-)…I always thought about two type of loads progressions; one is on the straight set (for example,if i were benching incline 280x6 and now it’s 290x6,this is a clear improvement ),other is on maximum lift,two things are linked but needs different protocols,for example I lost about 40% of load switching to dbs but rom&stretch is far superior so I know that I will add size (until I don’t stall).
then I switch for a while to a different excercise/protocol (as per Simmons-Dante ways).
it’s not so complicated (maybe…lol).

I honestly never think about the whole “train to failure” thing myself.

I know when it’s time to stop a set, and when it’s time to keep going. I don’t ever say to myself, okay keep going until concentric failure… or, keep going until form breakdown, or till I lose explosivity… or anything like that. And not every set or every exercise is the same either.

For a lot of the big exercises, I usually try to do my warmup sets with a very fluid and continuous pace and I stop the set once I can’t get another rep with the same brisk pace. But then on heavy sets the reps slow down after 4 or 5 and I will keep going as long as it stays on the target muscle.

I know when I have stimulated a muscle to grow as much as I can with a certain weight, and sometimes that means I could get another rep, but the rep would be handled almost entirely by my joints or supporting muscles instead, so I won’t bother.

Other times, if I can keep it there, I will do more reps past failure. But all of this is completely instinctive for me, I don’t PLAN to fail here or stop short there. I think that would be silly.

Highly dependent on age and training style if your training every day then training to failure would eventually burn you out. If you are younger than you can probably recover from training to failure more often. As your working out you should be noticing what works and what doesn’t. Then you can tweak your routine until it’s perfect. Then change it again when your body adapts.

Lol at the first quoted replies of the thread. Hahaha!!

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think you should post a recent picture of yourself[/quote]
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Whats up with the mob mentality in this thread…?

[quote]florelius wrote:
Whats up with the mob mentality in this thread…?[/quote]

Trust me, if anyone deserves it, it’s roguevampire.

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Whats up with the mob mentality in this thread…?[/quote]

Trust me, if anyone deserves it, it’s roguevampire. [/quote]

Could you give me a recap of what he have done on here to deserve it?

hahahaha @ this thread and an attempt to be taken seriously

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Whats up with the mob mentality in this thread…?[/quote]

Trust me, if anyone deserves it, it’s roguevampire. [/quote]

I deserve it as well

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Whats up with the mob mentality in this thread…?[/quote]

Trust me, if anyone deserves it, it’s roguevampire. [/quote]

Could you give me a recap of what he have done on here to deserve it?[/quote]

The fact that he’s been called out in tons of threads but refuses to post a new pic of himself. I mean why not slay the haters? Probably because he can’t find another pic of the dude he has as his profile pic. Quite sad, isn’t it?

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Whats up with the mob mentality in this thread…?[/quote]

Trust me, if anyone deserves it, it’s roguevampire. [/quote]

Could you give me a recap of what he have done on here to deserve it?[/quote]

He’s a vampire with a 400 year old love interest he never met who is probably not the guy in his avatar. I am all for real debate about bodybuilding…but the only people who ignore stuff like this are likely not regular posters.

I don’t know if he is real or not…so I asked for a picture. I’m not personally ganging up on him…I just want to know if he’s real…and if he is, why he won’t just take another pic that isn’t 2 years old or more.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
Whats up with the mob mentality in this thread…?[/quote]

Trust me, if anyone deserves it, it’s roguevampire. [/quote]

Could you give me a recap of what he have done on here to deserve it?[/quote]

He’s a vampire with a 400 year old love interest he never met who is probably not the guy in his avatar. I am all for real debate about bodybuilding…but the only people who ignore stuff like this are likely not regular posters.

I don’t know if he is real or not…so I asked for a picture. I’m not personally ganging up on him…I just want to know if he’s real…and if he is, why he won’t just take another pic that isn’t 2 years old or more.[/quote]

Okay I get that it would serve himself if he just posted up a reasent pic, but cant help to get a bad taste in my mouth when so many gang up against him. I dont like that regardless who it happens to. And its only okay if the person have acted like an total ass.

ps. You asked about the picture first, so you cant really be hold accountable for all the other posters reposting your post.

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
hahahaha @ this thread and an attempt to be taken seriously[/quote]

Not to sound arrogant, but dude, I’ve forgotten more about lifting, than you will ever know.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
hahahaha @ this thread and an attempt to be taken seriously[/quote]

Not to sound arrogant, but dude, I’ve forgotten more about lifting, than you will ever know. [/quote]

lol you said exactly the same thing on the other thread.

I guess the 400 years of lifting were spent training with the grand grand grand grand daddies of Waterbury and Shugart.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
hahahaha @ this thread and an attempt to be taken seriously[/quote]

Not to sound arrogant, but dude, I’ve forgotten more about lifting, than you will ever know. [/quote]

You know more then me about being a coward

no pics
no videos

I have both

you dont sound arrogant you sound delusional

did you have 30 inches legs with no fat or a 405 bench press with 3 years lifting naturally? you probably dont have those now and if you do post a video and prove me wrong. You wont because your a coward , not because you dont have anything to prove So grow up

Oh yeah dont mean to sound arrogant :slight_smile: