To Intervene or Not to Intervene?

[No_Gi]

Here we go eh… Thank you by the way for the well thought out response, here’s my thoughts.

I am not going to add you to a list, but I will say that there is nothing to be won by beating up someone smaller and weaker than yourself, be them man or woman. Also, if I see anyone getting the shit kicked out of them I will intervene to stop it from going to far. So I guese you may have brought us back on topic.

First of all, I don’t care if there is something to be “won” its not a game if you’re physically assaulted. I have a right to defend myself, and I would do so until I felt I had removed the threat. I’m not talking stomping on a guy etc… just to clear that up.

Most anyone will do what they have to insure their own safety. That being said, there is not plausible scenario other than completely unlikely/fake ones that I believe you would ever have to punch or beat up a woman in order to remove a threat.

Not to get insulting, but I find it odd that you can’t conceive of a woman being able to physically injure a man. I wouldn’t normally strike a woman, or a child, however earlier in this thread example were given of vicious teen violence, and a woman outside a bar with a bat. In both of those situations I would do what was I felt was needed to defend myself. I don’t think you would strike a child, but if he was slashing your face with a box cutter, or swinging a sharp farming tool… you see where I’m going with this.

It is not about duty or taking abuse, its about realizing that you are stronger and that you donâ¿¿t have to beat the shit out of someone weaker. As for you explanation as to why you don’t hit a woman, it appears that other than being told it is wrong to hit a woman, you have put no thought in to why it is wrong. I never accept rules that are handed to me without thinking about why they are useful. I agree that a woman should not fight a man, but if alcohol is involved or the guy is being hit because he is an asshole then he should not resort to hitting her back.

It is ironic that you criticize my moral standard for not striking women while imposing your own arbitrary standard for not striking those weaker than yourself. Also I do examine the reason for my beliefs, though I agree with your point that perhaps more people should. You seem to have a rather narrow perspective of what women are capable of. Obvious sexism also leaks into your statement that if “the guy is being hit because he is an asshole then he should not resort to hitting her back” the fact that a guy was being an “asshole” does not give her license to attack him. I wouldn’t accept that from a man, weaker than me or not, and if you really think about it, neither would you.

No-Gi
Your post is appreciated. Morals are nothing without your understanding why they exist. IMO. Please give me a more basic moral explanation than strength differences for not hitting a woman. Obviously I am not of the opinion that it is okay to fight anyone for no reason as long as they are as big as you. I was only pointing out strenght differences because that seemed to be of no concern for these other guys saying they would hit a girl because she hit them. The Golden Rule is so popular because we are all aware that their may be someone bigger stronger meaner that would take advantage of us if we did not recognize that we are all human.

I think you may have a different idea of what being hit by a girl means than the rest of us. It seems to me that the rest of the people are talking about a real attack, not a slap. You don’t seem to think women are capable of that. Also I never believed the golden rule was some sort of fear reaction to bigger meaner guys. I thought it was more a measure of how a man should carry himself in life. If I strike someone I fully expect to be struck, I wouldn’t expect others to take that from me, and I treat others as I expect to be treated.

No-Gi

(Edit: Havn’t expressly said this yet, but I’m not talking about stomping a woman on the ground. I hope it was implied in my aversion to striking a woman that I would do what was needed to defend myself.)

[eigieinhamr]

I don’t think a man has to hit a woman in almost every circumstance (obviously if she has a lethal weapon then taking her down quickly is essential).
Men are stronger. Use this and restrain her. Once you have grabbed her arm, then simply grasping hard usually can cause enough discomfort that the woman will stop. Then you can either sort out the situation with her or call the police.

[Mikeyali]

When I was a teenager I used to box. One day my coach made me spar a chick. I told him that I couldn’t hit a woman. His response: “I guess you’ve got a problem then” - worst ass whooping of my life.

Once after being hit by a woman I told her that if she were a man I’d kick the piss out of her for doing that. She responded by telling me I was sexist and hitting me again.

Really, what pisses me off more than anything though is the fact that women KNOW we won’t hit them. I used to work security at a casino. 9 times out of 10 a fight would start because of a woman running her mouth in a way a man wouldn’t. Next thing you know her boyfriend/husband would have to step into a fight he’d normally avoid.

Let there be no confusion. There are plenty of women in this world that deserve to be hit. That said, unless you’re risking serious injury by her, a man has no business hitting her when she deserves it. What a woman like that needs is to have her friends ditch her and to die a spinster.

mike

[No_Gi]

[quote]eigieinhamr wrote:
I don’t think a man has to hit a woman in almost every circumstance (obviously if she has a lethal weapon then taking her down quickly is essential).
Men are stronger. Use this and restrain her. Once you have grabbed her arm, then simply grasping hard usually can cause enough discomfort that the woman will stop. Then you can either sort out the situation with her or call the police.[/quote]

I agree. You should use the minimum necessary force.

[Makavali]

[quote]No-Gi wrote:
eigieinhamr wrote:
I don’t think a man has to hit a woman in almost every circumstance (obviously if she has a lethal weapon then taking her down quickly is essential).
Men are stronger. Use this and restrain her. Once you have grabbed her arm, then simply grasping hard usually can cause enough discomfort that the woman will stop. Then you can either sort out the situation with her or call the police.

I agree. You should use the minimum necessary force.[/quote]

I’ll second that motion. Although, it’s more likely I’d shove her off me, and go off to find something else to do.

[eigieinhamr]

[quote]Makavali wrote:
No-Gi wrote:
eigieinhamr wrote:
I don’t think a man has to hit a woman in almost every circumstance (obviously if she has a lethal weapon then taking her down quickly is essential).
Men are stronger. Use this and restrain her. Once you have grabbed her arm, then simply grasping hard usually can cause enough discomfort that the woman will stop. Then you can either sort out the situation with her or call the police.

I agree. You should use the minimum necessary force.

I’ll second that motion. Although, it’s more likely I’d shove her off me, and go off to find something else to do.[/quote]

Obviously if it’s completely insignificant I’ll walk away, but if I think she is going to keep the situation going, or if she hurt me enough that I actually want to shock her by getting the police involved, then something needs to be done.

A lot of the time a woman is drunk if she is going to hit you, and probably when sober will appreciate someone restraining her rather than most other methods.

[RSGZ]

[quote]eigieinhamr wrote:
A lot of the time a woman is drunk if she is going to hit you, and probably when sober will appreciate someone restraining her rather than most other methods.[/quote]

Yes, agreed.

The extremely rare and unlikely situation that a woman would attack someone with intention to cause permanent damage is what I was talking about - which is almost never.

For some obscure reason some people seem to thing women are exempt from being treated a potential threats in life and death situations.

[OctoberGirl]

Boy it is weird how this thread has mutated.

[RSGZ]

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Boy it is weird how this thread has mutated.[/quote]

What’s your take on this OG?

[OctoberGirl]

[quote]rsg wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

Boy it is weird how this thread has mutated.

What’s your take on this OG?[/quote]

It’s just the thread is about do you intervene to help someone and you guys have bastardized it into, “When is it acceptable to hit a woman?”

The guy who was going to hunt down the woman for breaking his buddies nose is a tool. What was he going to do? Hit her? How is that self defense?

Also, it isn’t acceptable to hit anyone for something they said.

But then, it just isn’t a comfortable discussion topic is it? It is right up there with politics and religion. Besides, there is such a shame that goes along with being hit by a man. You guys just don’t know. As a victim you justify it in your own head. “I must have deserved it.” For me my own friends were saying “why didn’t you wait for us?” and “you shouldn’t have hit him with the bottle, he wouldn’t have beat you so bad.” It’s just an ugly topic.

I’m not a guy, I won’t have your viewpoint.

[RSGZ]

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
rsg wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

Boy it is weird how this thread has mutated.

What’s your take on this OG?

It’s just the thread is about do you intervene to help someone and you guys have bastardized it into, “When is it acceptable to hit a woman?”

The guy who was going to hunt down the woman for breaking his buddies nose is a tool. What was he going to do? Hit her? How is that self defense?

Also, it isn’t acceptable to hit anyone for something they said.

But then, it just isn’t a comfortable discussion topic is it? It is right up there with politics and religion. Besides, there is such a shame that goes along with being hit by a man. You guys just don’t know. As a victim you justify it in your own head. “I must have deserved it.” For me my own friends were saying “why didn’t you wait for us?” and “you shouldn’t have hit him with the bottle, he wouldn’t have beat you so bad.” It’s just an ugly topic.

I’m not a guy, I won’t have your viewpoint.
[/quote]

Not a comfortable topic at all.

Regardless of what you hit the attackers with, you were defending yourself and your life - any form of retaliation would be acceptable in such a case. It’s absolutely disgusting when something like that happens, and even more so when a woman is the victim.

I am merely saying if it was a guy in your situation being attacked by 2 women (with no motive other than to inflict pain as highly unlikely as it is), would it be wrong for the man to hit them back if his life were in danger as yours was?

It’s such a touchy subject as you need to know where to draw your limits; my point is that when it come down to survival, you will do what you have to if you want to live.

I will never lay my hand on a woman because I know it is wrong, and my hypothetical examples are more than never likely to happen to me.

[Steel_Nation]

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

The guy who was going to hunt down the woman for breaking his buddies nose is a tool. What was he going to do? Hit her? How is that self defense?
[/quote]

It’s not self defense, it’s justice. Would I have hit her? Doubtful, but I wouldn’t rule it out if she got violent with me. Best course of action would’ve been to have her arrested for felony assault. At least that would have made her remember the whole thing and think twice next time.

How messed up do you have to be to think that something like that should go completely unpunished?

[Makavali]

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
rsg wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

Boy it is weird how this thread has mutated.

What’s your take on this OG?

It’s just the thread is about do you intervene to help someone and you guys have bastardized it into, “When is it acceptable to hit a woman?”[/quote]

I think that started when someone pointed out you shouldn’t always interfere with domestics, because the woman may attack you instead. Then it went downhill from there.

Partially my fault, I’m thinking.

[Makavali]

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
For me my own friends were saying “why didn’t you wait for us?” and “you shouldn’t have hit him with the bottle, he wouldn’t have beat you so bad.”[/quote]

That’s just crap. You were defending yourself, what did they expect you to do? Just lie there and take a beating?

[TriednTrue]

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
rsg wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

Boy it is weird how this thread has mutated… But then, it just isn’t a comfortable discussion topic is it? … there is such a shame that goes along with being hit by a man. You guys just don’t know… For me my own friends were saying “why didn’t you wait for us?” and “you shouldn’t have hit him with the bottle, he wouldn’t have beat you so bad.” It’s just an ugly topic.
[/quote]

It IS an ugly topic, OG. It’s also an uncomfortable discussion. I’d wager it’s a topic that not many parents speak about with their children, hence the need to take it up on 'net forums.

I was a toddler when my parents talked to me about hitting girls. The bottom line was, and still is: Don’t. It’s that simple.

I wasn’t aware of the level of shame a woman feels when hit by a man. It’s eye-opening. I’m convinced that a man should feel even more shame for hitting a woman.

As for your friends’ words to you, OG, I don’t agree with their analysis. I believe they’re trying to help you cope and find some sense in what happened to you; however, what happened was senseless and without any justification. You did the right thing to fight back, scream, and resist. It didn’t free you, but it bought you time. You did the right thing.

On a side note, do you carry any OC spray? In this day and age, it’s wise for women to carry such a measure of self-defense.

[TriednTrue]

This discussion about “respect” is amazing. I find it appalling that a man equates self-respect with the willingness to hit a woman “if he has to”. Don’t give me these stories about gangs of raging, she-beasts with weapons of man-destruction. Get real.

Conversely, have enough self-respect to vow to never hit a woman, no matter what. Do these male advocates of hitting women find themselves in frequent, violent encounters with females? What’s causing the women to be so violent in the first place?

Yes, some women say awful things because they can. In such a situation, I say: walk away. Immediately and permanently disassociate with such a woman. Befriend women who have more sense and respect for themselves and others.

[OctoberGirl]

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

The guy who was going to hunt down the woman for breaking his buddies nose is a tool. What was he going to do? Hit her? How is that self defense?

It’s not self defense, it’s justice. Would I have hit her? Doubtful, but I wouldn’t rule it out if she got violent with me. Best course of action would’ve been to have her arrested for felony assault. At least that would have made her remember the whole thing and think twice next time.

How messed up do you have to be to think that something like that should go completely unpunished?[/quote]

Yah you really made that clear in your first post. I guess I missed the line where you were going to politely restrain the woman for questioning by the cops.

you didn’t type that, and you sure didn’t suggest that was your next action.

[Steel_Nation]

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Steel Nation wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

The guy who was going to hunt down the woman for breaking his buddies nose is a tool. What was he going to do? Hit her? How is that self defense?

It’s not self defense, it’s justice. Would I have hit her? Doubtful, but I wouldn’t rule it out if she got violent with me. Best course of action would’ve been to have her arrested for felony assault. At least that would have made her remember the whole thing and think twice next time.

How messed up do you have to be to think that something like that should go completely unpunished?

Yah you really made that clear in your first post. I guess I missed the line where you were going to politely restrain the woman for questioning by the cops.

you didn’t type that, and you sure didn’t suggest that was your next action.

[/quote]

Taking her to the cops never crossed my mind at the time, but like I said it would have been the best thing to do. And if I had to restrain her, I doubt I would have done it “politely.”

[yasser]

Women and Children obviously are perfect angels that can’t do any harm.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/index.html
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/young/index.html

Women are most likely less prone to being violent. But do not delude yourself into thinking they are not capable of it.

[No_Gi]

[quote]TriednTrue wrote:
As for your friends’ words to you, OG, I don’t agree with their analysis. I believe they’re trying to help you cope and find some sense in what happened to you;
[/quote]
I’m not understanding how her friends telling her to lie there and take the assault was an attempt to help her cope. That and the “you shouldn’t have wandered off” seems more like them assuaging a guilty conscience over what happened. Granted I don’t know a thing about OG’s friends.

[quote]TriednTrue wrote:
Don’t give me these stories about gangs of raging, she-beasts with weapons of man-destruction. Get real.
[/quote]

Well as many people have said, and I will now repeat. We are not talking about normal day to day situations, in fact in my life I have never found cause to strike a woman. To take the position of “never no matter what” is asinine and idealistic. The whole “raging she beasts” thing is good for a laugh, but you’re just hiding from uncomfortable reality.
I would never hit a woman under any normal circumstances.
I would never hit a woman under most abnormal circumstances. Though I would push her off me/restrain her as necessary.
If, permanent injury was a possible result and I felt it was needed to protect myself or my loved ones. I would definitely hit her.
If you read the previous posts most of the guys on here are not advocating hitting women, they just find your “never” stand kind of like the ostrich with its head in the sand. A woman (or child) is not incapable of dealing real physical injury.