To Intervene or Not to Intervene?

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

I think the whole stupid gansta and rap mentality of “smack my bitch up” has opened the door for a lot of young males…

If you want to be a real man, act like it. If you’re really big and strong, then hold/restrain her if the punches fly. Otherwise, walk away…

And keep on making up those stupid “what if she…” scenarios.[/quote]

ID Im am really sry but again I dont see what “the whole stupid gansta and rap mentality of smack my bitch up”
Really has to do with anything.

That really wasnt a “stupid what if she scenarios” post, I saw it go down. You cant always walk away, you cant always hold and restrain someone and you cant always reason with someone and to think so is some what short sighted. Now im not calling any one here short sighted but you cant predict what you would do I a given situation.

Anyway this whole(if this is the wrong spelling for this applications of the word let me know =)thing is becoming some want political and now we are just talking semantics.

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

I use this thing called Context when I read and reply to posts. Please go back and explain to me where I should have ever imagined a situation like the one just described? As a matter of fact explain to me where any of the people that I was addressing prior to you two indicated that a woman punched them? I read slap. That�??s a big difference. That being said, I will entertain your new scenario and explain why you are both still cowards and wrong.

[/quote]When did we ever say go hit women for no reason? If one person believes I have no basic rights (i.e. not to be hit), then I believe they have none. Honestly, you sound like a right wuss. If a woman hit you with no provocation, would you honestly not react?[quote]

I believe this is a cowardly attempt to weasel out of my having exposed you as such.

[/quote]I think justifying the fact your afraid of women is worse. We ARE equals, whether you like it or not. I don’t know why it’s so hard for you to grasp the concept that we aren’t advocating woman-bashing, or are you projecting?[quote]

First if a complete stranger be them female or male is drunk in a bar and they punch you, it has nothing to do with them trying to disrespect you. You base your claim for violent retaliation on RESPECT. This can only stem from inadequacy issues that you suffer from especially if the attacker is a female. The correct manly response to a drunk woman punching you and breaking your nose is likely the exact one that your friend choose. The only other possibilities that I can think of are an knee jerk response were you punched back, but then immediately feel bad and fled because you hit a woman. Two, you shove her away to avoid further blows. Three restrain her until someone can get her under control and call the police or just leave.

[/quote]I’ll go with two. Restraining her can be much much worse. And, actually, if someone hits me it is a lack of respect. That’s not really something you can rationalize as “inadequacy”. That’s something I’d set aside for the actually woman-beaters.[quote]

If you take a strange drunken woman�??s random act of aggression as a sign of disrespect it is likely because you have some repressed homosexual jealousy of her ability to take dicks and not face as harsh a social stigma as you would have to being a man and doing so. Since however it is your secret desire to be a woman and take dicks you feel justified in beating the shit out of a drunk, weaker woman. This seems especially true in the case of Steel Nation who went to find the girl who hurt his beloved boy friend, to avenge this injustice that he suffered from these out of control women.

[/quote]Ah, gay jokes. 'Nuff said. Queer.[quote]

God knows that women in bars all across the world are randomly assaulting innocent helpless men and going un-check! Because as Makavali wrote:

The sad thing is, she probably gets away with that sort of behavior all the time.

Your mothers must be so proud that you would stand up against all of these crazy man assaulting females in the name of justice.

[/quote]You don’t get out much, obviously.[quote]

The internet is truly out of control. There is no social setting other than this where I believe any Man would voice his willingness and actual violence against women with no self-humiliation. Go around you work place and tell your co workers that you think that its okay to slap a woman.

[/quote]Again, I point out - if she deserved it. That goes for anyone. Gender is not considered here.[quote]

This type of posting is cowardly, if you truly believe you are right own your actions. Steel Nation would have beaten that girl�??s ass that hurt his friend and triumphantly told everyone about it. What a HERO![/quote]

Cowardly? I think that’s a title better reserved for you. Rationalizing bad behavior based on gender is just wrong. You might say “don’t hit girls” but I say:

Don’t hit anyone

Because if you do, you deserve to get hit back (proportionately to your first strike, obviously).

Sounds like a bit of a chauvinist to me, saying that women aren’t equal and all.

:smiley:

[quote]rsg wrote:
Sounds like a bit of a chauvinist to me, saying that women aren’t equal and all.

:D[/quote]

Couldn’t have said it better!

[quote]Makavali wrote:
rsg wrote:
Sounds like a bit of a chauvinist to me, saying that women aren’t equal and all.

:smiley:

Couldn’t have said it better![/quote]

A chauvinist that is married to a DOCTOR makes perfect sense. Do either of you read entire posts or just jump in and start making comments with no context or bases?

Posting with smiley faces you have my permission get in as many fights with women as you want. You estrogen levels are obviously way to high.

I would reply to the long post form Makavali but I donâ¿¿t think that a point was made that was worth commenting on. I have in the fact explained that because a woman is my equal I would not slap them ever.

You both are very immature. You should always hold yourself to higher standards than drunks in bars.

[quote]Himora22 wrote:
Blake I can respect you standing to not hit women ever but I just cant agree with it totally. I think I have a unique experience as it comes to this subject.

When I was young I watch my mom get beat up by her husband and swore to never hit a woman and havent to this day. But by the time I was 12 or 13 she had broken her hand on my face b/c of a D in English when I was 18 I told her if she ever touched me again I would kill her. Now I wouldnt have really killed her but I came real close to breaking her face. So in hind site my mom more than likely brought her earlier beatings on herself.

As far as the man being able to “always walk away” that is not always possible. I was a bouncer myself for 4 or 5 yrs and have seen men walk away form women and then the women go after him to the point of waiting in/going out to the parking lot. I even saw a women go get a Bat and start going to town on a guy in the parking lot. He punched her once in the face, dropped her and grabbed the bat. By the time any of us got there or the cops and got the story from the ppl that saw what was going on she went to jail for assault and she wasnt even drunk.

Point being you cant always “walk away” and some time you have to do what you have to do weather you want to or not. [/quote]

I appreciate your view point but I still disagree here is the reason. The level of rage from the woman towards the man in the bar scenario is not that of a stranger but of a scorned woman. I for some reason do not have these types of occurrences in my relationships because I make it a point not to be a dick bag. So, I can safely say that there is no reason for any REAL MAN to ever hit a woman.

As for the part about your Mom, I am very sorry to hear about that. The fact of the matter is that an 18 yr old is not a man by my standards in 99% of the cases. There are exceptions before anyone starts posting crazy scenarios of how an 18 can be a real man. For the most part however at 18 everyone will still do more growing up

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

I would reply to the long post form Makavali but I donâ¿¿t think that a point was made that was worth commenting on. I have in the fact explained that because a woman is my equal I would not slap them ever.[/quote]

You mean you don’t have a counter-argument. And I think you’re the one not reading posts. How many times do I have to say “NO ONE HERE IS ADVOCATING BEATING UP WOMEN FOR NO REASON”.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
BlakeAJackson wrote:

I would reply to the long post form Makavali but I donâ¿¿t think that a point was made that was worth commenting on. I have in the fact explained that because a woman is my equal I would not slap them ever.

You mean you don’t have a counter-argument. And I think you’re the one not reading posts. How many times do I have to say “NO ONE HERE IS ADVOCATING BEATING UP WOMEN FOR NO REASON”.[/quote]

There is NO REASON to beat up women! That is the point. You have yet to give me a scenario, which I would be proud as a man to stand behind other than fantastical BS.

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:

There is NO REASON to beat up women! That is the point. You have yet to give me a scenario, which I would be proud as a man to stand behind other than fantastical BS.[/quote]

So we come back to that then. You’re saying an unprovoked attack should be ignored? Go back a few pages, and someone has posted about his friend getting his nose broken. That was something that actually happened as opposed to your ‘fantastical BS’. I wouldn’t stand for that.

You still seem to think we want to put women in hospital, despite the fact you’ve been told OVER AND OVER that this is not the case.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
BlakeAJackson wrote:

There is NO REASON to beat up women! That is the point. You have yet to give me a scenario, which I would be proud as a man to stand behind other than fantastical BS.

So we come back to that then. You’re saying an unprovoked attack should be ignored? Go back a few pages, and someone has posted about his friend getting his nose broken. That was something that actually happened as opposed to your ‘fantastical BS’. I wouldn’t stand for that.

You still seem to think we want to put women in hospital, despite the fact you’ve been told OVER AND OVER that this is not the case.[/quote]

Even in that story no one saw the girl hit him. It was him telling his friend some girl hit me for bumping in to her drink, and alcohol is involved. It is such a specific one time case. Your argument for hitting them back was Respect. It has nothing to do with that. If now you are changing your argument to they hit me so I can hit them then you have the maturity of a grade school child. I personally hold my self and others to higher standards. Sorry!

Watch some UFC fights, it’s funny how these trained fighters, who are fighting same weight classes last rounds and often have trouble finishing the fight, but you think there is a bunch of supper strong women who can knock out/ do significant harm to a man? It is just not true. We are on a bodybuilding forum for Christ sakes. I would hope the average poster on here is larger than the average male, and much bigger than the average female. Apparently I have found the two who have found their match in run of the mill drunk females at bars. Pathetic!

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:
but you think there is a bunch of supper strong women who can knock out/ do significant harm to a man? It is just not true. We are on a bodybuilding forum for Christ sakes. I would hope the average poster on here is larger than the average male, and much bigger than the average female. Apparently I have found the two who have found their match in run of the mill drunk females at bars. Pathetic!
[/quote]

Stop insisting that all women are weak. That to me is inherently sexist. There are women like that out there, obviously you don’t have much of a life outside this forum if you haven’t realized that.

I don’t know why I’m arguing this point anymore, you obviously don’t want to listen. I can appreciate that you shouldn’t just hit women just because we’re (apparently) all much much bigger and stronger, but there are limits.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
BlakeAJackson wrote:

There is NO REASON to beat up women! That is the point. You have yet to give me a scenario, which I would be proud as a man to stand behind other than fantastical BS.

So we come back to that then. You’re saying an unprovoked attack should be ignored? Go back a few pages, and someone has posted about his friend getting his nose broken. That was something that actually happened as opposed to your ‘fantastical BS’. I wouldn’t stand for that.

You still seem to think we want to put women in hospital, despite the fact you’ve been told OVER AND OVER that this is not the case.[/quote]

Obviously what we are writing is not getting through to him.

At no point did I say I want to, or would “beat up a woman”. I am saying that if you are attacked by another person, regardless of gender, that it is only human to defend yourself - and if they means retaliation, then so be it.

I’ve spoken to many people about this, and they agree - including my girlfriend.

I guess I beat her up to, huh?

[quote]Makavali wrote:
BlakeAJackson wrote:
but you think there is a bunch of supper strong women who can knock out/ do significant harm to a man? It is just not true. We are on a bodybuilding forum for Christ sakes. I would hope the average poster on here is larger than the average male, and much bigger than the average female. Apparently I have found the two who have found their match in run of the mill drunk females at bars. Pathetic!

Stop insisting that all women are weak. That to me is inherently sexist. There are women like that out there, obviously you don’t have much of a life outside this forum if you haven’t realized that.

I don’t know why I’m arguing this point anymore, you obviously don’t want to listen. I can appreciate that you shouldn’t just hit women just because we’re (apparently) all much much bigger and stronger, but there are limits.[/quote]

You weigh 187 lbs. I weigh 214 lbs. we should both be significantly larger than the average female and significantly stronger. The average when it comes to size and strength actually represent the majority of people in that group. Their will be deviation of some that are larger and some that are smaller, but that is miniscule in this argument because the majority that fall in to the larger side will be overweight/obese when it comes to women.

Women with equal strength to an average sized man, or a man that works out regularly are going to make up a very very small percentage of the population of women. For some reason I do not see them picking fights with strangers in bars. You are probably safe! Just another way to show you how ridiculous your point is.

[quote]rsg wrote:
Makavali wrote:
BlakeAJackson wrote:

There is NO REASON to beat up women! That is the point. You have yet to give me a scenario, which I would be proud as a man to stand behind other than fantastical BS.

So we come back to that then. You’re saying an unprovoked attack should be ignored? Go back a few pages, and someone has posted about his friend getting his nose broken. That was something that actually happened as opposed to your ‘fantastical BS’. I wouldn’t stand for that.

You still seem to think we want to put women in hospital, despite the fact you’ve been told OVER AND OVER that this is not the case.

Obviously what we are writing is not getting through to him.

At no point did I say I want to, or would “beat up a woman”. I am saying that if you are attacked by another person, regardless of gender, that it is only human to defend yourself - and if they means retaliation, then so be it.

I’ve spoken to many people about this, and they agree - including my girlfriend.

I guess I beat her up to, huh?[/quote]

You can no doubt restrain or stop a girl from attacking you without inflicting significant harm to them and that is all you should do. You do not have the right to defend yourself as if it is a man, if the average girl hits you because it is not a defense situation, you are not truly threatened or in harms way, you do have the right to stop further attack but not by hitting them.

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:
you do have the right to stop further attack[/quote]

For fucks sake, what did you think we were talking about? We’re not talking about dealing out damage, we’re talking about a push back.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
BlakeAJackson wrote:
you do have the right to stop further attack

For fucks sake, what did you think we were talking about? We’re not talking about dealing out damage, we’re talking about a push back.[/quote]

Then you should have never adressed me to begin with as you must agree that it is never okay to hit a girl.

Pushing is basically hitting.

Blake,
I don’t like to argue on the internet, and I know you’ll just ignore this and add me to the pussy/coward list, but I have to say though that your insisting upon the physical inequality meaning you shouldn’t fight is a bit silly. If a little 120 pound man were to strike me, I would beat the shit out of him.

I would be more hesitant to do the same to a woman, not because I’m stronger than her, but because she’s a woman. That being said, I agree with Makavali that there are limits. If my life, limb, or eyesight were in danger I would take a woman out in a hurry.

It is just part of culture / tradition, and I think if a woman does not wish for things to get physically violent, she shouldn’t take it to that level. I have never found a reason to strike a woman, but your idea that this is because I’m stronger than them is just silly. It is not my duty as a physically fit male to take abuse from everyone weaker than me.

So what I’m saying is cut the “'cause your stronger” stuff out, that has nothing to do with it. If I ran into a random small percentage freak woman who is stronger than me, that does not mean I would feel free to fight her. I don’t hit women for moral reasons, not because of the strength difference.
Sorry for the long post.

No-Gi

[quote]No-Gi wrote:
I would be more hesitant to do the same to a woman, not because I’m stronger than her, but because she’s a woman. That being said, I agree with Makavali that there are limits. If my life, limb, or eyesight were in danger I would take a woman out in a hurry.

It is just part of culture / tradition, and I think if a woman does not wish for things to get physically violent, she shouldn’t take it to that level. I have never found a reason to strike a woman, but your idea that this is because I’m stronger than them is just silly. It is not my duty as a physically fit male to take abuse from everyone weaker than me.[/quote]

Perfect.

[quote]No-Gi wrote:
Blake,
I don’t like to argue on the internet, and I know you’ll just ignore this and add me to the pussy/coward list, but I have to say though that your insisting upon the physical inequality meaning you shouldn’t fight is a bit silly. If a little 120 pound man were to strike me, I would beat the shit out of him. [/quote]

I am not going to add you to a list, but I will say that there is nothing to be won by beating up someone smaller and weaker than yourself, be them man or woman. Also, if I see anyone getting the shit kicked out of them I will intervene to stop it from going to far. So I guese you may have brought us back on topic.

[quote]No-Gi wrote:
I would be more hesitant to do the same to a woman, not because I’m stronger than her, but because she’s a woman. That being said, I agree with Makavali that there are limits. If my life, limb, or eyesight were in danger I would take a woman out in a hurry. [/quote]

Most anyone will do what they have to insure their own safety. That being said, there is not plausible scenario other than completely unlikely/fake ones that I believe you would ever have to punch or beat up a woman in order to remove a threat.

[quote]No-Gi wrote:
It is just part of culture / tradition, and I think if a woman does not wish for things to get physically violent, she shouldn’t take it to that level. I have never found a reason to strike a woman, but your idea that this is because I’m stronger than them is just silly. It is not my duty as a physically fit male to take abuse from everyone weaker than me.[/quote]

It is not about duty or taking abuse, its about realizing that you are stronger and that you donâ¿¿t have to beat the shit out of someone weaker. As for you explanation as to why you don’t hit a woman, it appears that other than being told it is wrong to hit a woman, you have put no thought in to why it is wrong. I never accept rules that are handed to me without thinking about why they are useful. I agree that a woman should not fight a man, but if alcohol is involved or the guy is being hit because he is an asshole then he should not resort to hitting her back.

[quote]No-Gi wrote:
So what I’m saying is cut the “'cause your stronger” stuff out, that has nothing to do with it. If I ran into a random small percentage freak woman who is stronger than me, that does not mean I would feel free to fight her. I don’t hit women for moral reasons, not because of the strength difference.
Sorry for the long post.

No-Gi[/quote]

Your post is appreciated. Morals are nothing without your understanding why they exist. IMO. Please give me a more basic moral explanation than strength differences for not hitting a woman. Obviously I am not of the opinion that it is okay to fight anyone for no reason as long as they are as big as you. I was only pointing out strenght differences because that seemed to be of no concern for these other guys saying they would hit a girl because she hit them. The Golden Rule is so popular because we are all aware that their may be someone bigger stronger meaner that would take advantage of us if we did not recognize that we are all human.