Cant believe people are actually talking about dropping deadlifts from your routine. If I had one exercise to use for life it would probably be the deadlift… if it hurts, thats cause its hard, get over it
Here is a picture of Dave Henry in 2002 when he got his pro card.
Here he is in 2008 at the Europa. Notice the improvement in both his lats and his traps.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Here he is in 2008 at the Europa. Notice the improvement in both his lats and his traps.[/quote]
He has almost no traps in the first picture. What changed in his lifting scheme b/w the first picture and the second?
Here’s another back pic of DH. Clearly focusing on rack deads and rows (and not doing shrugs) hasn’t seemed to hurt his upper back development.
Again, this is simply for illustrative purposes that one can build an impressive back with deadlifts. Not saying that one must do them, or that one should avoid shrugs. It all comes down to results. Do what works best for you.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Here he is in 2008 at the Europa. Notice the improvement in both his lats and his traps.
He has almost no traps in the first picture. What changed in his lifting scheme b/w the first picture and the second?[/quote]
Well, for one thing he started training with Dante Trudel and Scott Stevenson (doing DC training). According to Dante (and apparently DH as well) he owes most of his trap improvement to rack deadlifts.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Here he is in 2008 at the Europa. Notice the improvement in both his lats and his traps.
He has almost no traps in the first picture. What changed in his lifting scheme b/w the first picture and the second?
Well, for one thing he started training with Dante Trudel and Scott Stevenson (doing DC training). According to Dante (and apparently DH as well) he owes most of his trap improvement to rack deadlifts.[/quote]
I will continue to deadlift.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Here he is in 2008 at the Europa. Notice the improvement in both his lats and his traps.
He has almost no traps in the first picture. What changed in his lifting scheme b/w the first picture and the second?
Well, for one thing he started training with Dante Trudel and Scott Stevenson (doing DC training). According to Dante (and apparently DH as well) he owes most of his trap improvement to rack deadlifts.[/quote]
I’m going to go as far as to say that rack deads beat the shit out of regular deads for upper back/trap development.
Esp. when you shrug backwards after locking out each rep.
I can’t even do shrugs with any kind of real weight after rack pulls…
How do you guys feel about hamstring development without using deadlifts?
[quote]ktennies wrote:
How do you guys feel about hamstring development without using deadlifts?[/quote]
Leg curls alone don’t do the trick for me… SLDL’s (and possibly GM’s) work far better for hams than regular dls, though… Really emphasize that stretch…
Sumo Leg Presses work well, too.
To sum it up:
SLDL’s, Sumo Leg Presses (done with a little tweak), Lying Leg curls and DB Leg curls are the best exercises for hams imo.
I rarely do floor deads due to them posing an unnecessary risk for my low back in the lower part of ROM.
I already train backthickness with rack pulls(which allow for more load and don’t compromise my low back due to the limited rom) or rows, and I train hams with sldl’s or other direct ham exercises, so what the hell do I need floor deads for as a bodybuilder who doesn’t plan on competing in pl anytime soon…
Not that floor deads are a bad exercise, mind you.
[quote]ktennies wrote:
How do you guys feel about hamstring development without using deadlifts?[/quote]
What style of deadlift? Romanians are great for hamstrings, as are Sumo. Traditional may or may not be depending on the individual.
I’d still say that no one exercise is absolutely essential to develop any muscle group. There are a lot of options out there and many of them work. It’s just a matter of finding out what exercises work best for the individual.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
ktennies wrote:
How do you guys feel about hamstring development without using deadlifts?
What style of deadlift? Romanians are great for hamstrings, as are Sumo. Traditional may or may not be depending on the individual.
I’d still say that no one exercise is absolutely essential to develop any muscle group. There are a lot of options out there and many of them work. It’s just a matter of finding out what exercises work best for the individual.[/quote]
I actually forgot about those two… Don’t do 'em much, though, but the RDL’s def. work well for hams.
I guess sumo-deads are kinda like sumo-leg-presses in that aspect.
[quote]ktennies wrote:
How do you guys feel about hamstring development without using deadlifts?[/quote]
Not nearly as fun
i put a new DL vid on my page, can you guys give me honest feedback? especially compared to my disastrous first vid.
I feel that hip extension movements are superior for hamstring development… more pronounced stretch, larger loads to progress long term on.
I quite like training with deadlifts, but I’ve dropped them for a while now. Heavy deads are too hard on your nervous system. By doing them every week, you are essentially slowing progress on every other exercise.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Here he is in 2008 at the Europa. Notice the improvement in both his lats and his traps.
He has almost no traps in the first picture. What changed in his lifting scheme b/w the first picture and the second?
Well, for one thing he started training with Dante Trudel and Scott Stevenson (doing DC training). According to Dante (and apparently DH as well) he owes most of his trap improvement to rack deadlifts.
I’m going to go as far as to say that rack deads beat the shit out of regular deads for upper back/trap development.
Esp. when you shrug backwards after locking out each rep.
I can’t even do shrugs with any kind of real weight after rack pulls…
[/quote]
totally agree
For all the people in this thred, what peope do you think would benefit most from deadlifts.? my guess a skinny fuck, an athlete or a pl.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I also find it to be a time saver in the gym. To me it’s either do deads or do rows, and lat pulls, and good mornings, and ham curls, and grip work, ect.[/quote]
This is actually the opposite for me. Deadlifts take so much out of me that I have to rest literally 10 minutes, if I want to avoid collapsing onto the floor. After I’ve done only 2 work sets, moreover. And I don’t feel I can hit them properly if I don’t do them first.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Every benefit seen from the deadlift can be substituted with other movements VERY efficiently. I am not sure why anyone would rely on deadlifts alone for trap development. Heavy shrugs will build them up unlike any other movement.[/quote]
I agree with this. Personally, I can move more weight for more reps on shrugs than I can on deadlifts. I think barbell shrugs are simply the best trap exercises there is.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
The first part I agree, dead lifts are without a doubt a phenomenal back builder but this…
ab_power wrote:
What idiot tries to build up their traps by deadlifting? Even powerlifters like Wendler say they got big shrugs by doing… direct shrug work.
Which guys consistently have the biggest thickest traps? The guys with powerlifting backgrounds(ie big dead lifters)…
Now if they all do shrugs, but only a few of them get 700+ lb dead lifts and those that do those dead lifts routinely have the best traps on stage could we venture to say that dead lifts are a good trap builder(especially when combined with shrugs if someone chooses)?
Dave Henry is a guy who hasn’t done a shrug or rear delt specific move in 3-4 years and I don’t think any judges are going to pick apart his upper back thickness anytime soon. Rack deads and heavy ass rows built that back. [/quote]
Johnnie has done shrugs for years and he admits it. It is only recently that he dropped them because obviously the COMBINATION of the two (not either or) have built mammoth vipers around his neck.
Deadlifts are a fine trap builder. But i personally just don’t see how they can be better than shrugs which are basically a deadlift that cuts out the pull from the floor allowing more weight to be used to overload the traps.
My deadlift 1RM is a weight I literally shrug for 15+ reps. If I can hammer those barbell shrugs up to the 700lb that you mentioned (or to my genetic limit - whatever) why do I need to do deadlifts that will essentially do the same job but take me longer to get there?