To Deadlift or Not to Deadlift

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

Hello Gentlemen,

I am new to T-Nation so I was going to post my question on the ?Beginners? section but after reading a couple of questions posted there, I decided this would be a more appropriate place. I?d like to provide as much information as possible so I can get informed answers so please bear with me.

About me:
I am a 33 years old ectomorph natural trainee. I am 5?9?? and I started lifting consistently when I was around 135 pounds, about a year and a half ago. Currently, I am 157 pounds.

My goal:
I train for aesthetics as well as to be healthy. My goal is to have a normal/healthy weight for my height and an athletic, lean but muscular appearance all year round. I have estimated that I can reach this goal at 165 pounds provided I am able to maintain a pretty low body fat percentage.

My Diet:
As much as I could eat. That was until I read on this site an excellent article called ?The truth about bulking?. Then I realize why I was not happy when I got to 162 pounds two and a half weeks ago: My waist was making me look out of shape regardless of all the work I was doing.

So I gradually adjusted and corrected my diet to reduce my caloric intake, lose fat and keep the muscle. That?s where I am right now and so far so good, eating 4 meals a day. High on protein, good carbs (no longer after 6 pm) and veggies.

I will gradually increase my caloric intake (5-6 meals a day) when the mirror tells me it is time for a clean bulk.

My training:
I visit my gym 4-5 times a week. Weight training three times a week: I switch around the routines every now and then (I am starting to switch more often) but I always work each body part once a week. 3 sets of 6-7 reps max weight.

I currently focus a little more on the chest (3 times a week different exercises) and biceps (2 times a week different exercises). In addition, I recently started doing 20 min cardio 2-3 times a week (on the days I am off from lifting) to assist the process of reducing my body fat percentage.

I like it and I?d like to keep doing it even as I bulk. Also, I started doing abs 5 times a week.

My Supplement:
I only take a Muscle Milk shake once a day (counts for one meal). With milk the days I lift and with water otherwise.

The Situation:
Once I feel it is time to attempt a clean bulk, I would like to incorporate different combinations of supersets in my routine. But first, I think it would be a good idea to focus for a few weeks on compound movements. Here is where the problem lies.

I keep on reading what a great exercise deadlifts are to gain mass but I have always had lower back issues and although I am tempted to try it, well, I don?t know if I should.

My lower back:
It is hard to explain. My suspicion is that after years of bad posture, I ended up with a good for nothing, unbalanced and weak lower back. It has always hurt after spending a long time standing.

These issues have been accentuated since I started weight lifting. It is nothing terrible, but it is present rather often and pretty nagging. I stretch my lower back before and after each workout session.

Some days are a little worse than others. It feels weak and sometimes, depending on the posture or movement I do feel an acute pain that goes away when I correct the position.

About a year ago, a doctor did not seem to think it was a big deal (rather common she said) but she did instruct me to stay away from squats. Which I did and replaced for leg presses.

My question:
Considering that my goal is relatively modest (about 10 more pounds of lean muscle) should I attempt to do dead lifts paying super close attention to proper form? Is it worth the risk? I feel I could try again to do squats with light weight because I have more experience squatting without getting hurt. However, I have always avoided deadlifts. Should I just keep on avoiding them?

I would much rather avoid dead lifts than not being able to lift weights anymore (what a nightmare!!!) due to back injury.
Any help will be greatly appreciated. And finally, I apologize for the length of the posting and for any mistakes, you see, English is not my first language.

Christian

2

It’s cool to pull !

3

[quote]papasalas wrote:
Hello Gentlemen,

I am new to T-Nation so I was going to post my question on the ?Beginners? section but after reading a couple of questions posted there, I decided this would be a more appropriate place. I?d like to provide as much information as possible so I can get informed answers so please bear with me.

About me:
I am a 33 years old ectomorph natural trainee. I am 5?9?? and I started lifting consistently when I was around 135 pounds, about a year and a half ago. Currently, I am 157 pounds.

My goal:
I train for aesthetics as well as to be healthy. My goal is to have a normal/healthy weight for my height and an athletic, lean but muscular appearance all year round. I have estimated that I can reach this goal at 165 pounds provided I am able to maintain a pretty low body fat percentage.

My Diet:
As much as I could eat. That was until I read on this site an excellent article called ?The truth about bulking?. Then I realize why I was not happy when I got to 162 pounds two and a half weeks ago: My waist was making me look out of shape regardless of all the work I was doing.

So I gradually adjusted and corrected my diet to reduce my caloric intake, lose fat and keep the muscle. That?s where I am right now and so far so good, eating 4 meals a day. High on protein, good carbs (no longer after 6 pm) and veggies.

I will gradually increase my caloric intake (5-6 meals a day) when the mirror tells me it is time for a clean bulk.

My training:
I visit my gym 4-5 times a week. Weight training three times a week: I switch around the routines every now and then (I am starting to switch more often) but I always work each body part once a week. 3 sets of 6-7 reps max weight.

I currently focus a little more on the chest (3 times a week different exercises) and biceps (2 times a week different exercises). In addition, I recently started doing 20 min cardio 2-3 times a week (on the days I am off from lifting) to assist the process of reducing my body fat percentage.

I like it and I?d like to keep doing it even as I bulk. Also, I started doing abs 5 times a week.

My Supplement:
I only take a Muscle Milk shake once a day (counts for one meal). With milk the days I lift and with water otherwise.

The Situation:
Once I feel it is time to attempt a clean bulk, I would like to incorporate different combinations of supersets in my routine. But first, I think it would be a good idea to focus for a few weeks on compound movements. Here is where the problem lies.

I keep on reading what a great exercise deadlifts are to gain mass but I have always had lower back issues and although I am tempted to try it, well, I don?t know if I should.

My lower back:
It is hard to explain. My suspicion is that after years of bad posture, I ended up with a good for nothing, unbalanced and weak lower back. It has always hurt after spending a long time standing.

These issues have been accentuated since I started weight lifting. It is nothing terrible, but it is present rather often and pretty nagging. I stretch my lower back before and after each workout session.

Some days are a little worse than others. It feels weak and sometimes, depending on the posture or movement I do feel an acute pain that goes away when I correct the position.

About a year ago, a doctor did not seem to think it was a big deal (rather common she said) but she did instruct me to stay away from squats. Which I did and replaced for leg presses.

My question:
Considering that my goal is relatively modest (about 10 more pounds of lean muscle) should I attempt to do dead lifts paying super close attention to proper form? Is it worth the risk? I feel I could try again to do squats with light weight because I have more experience squatting without getting hurt. However, I have always avoided deadlifts. Should I just keep on avoiding them?

I would much rather avoid dead lifts than not being able to lift weights anymore (what a nightmare!!!) due to back injury.
Any help will be greatly appreciated. And finally, I apologize for the length of the posting and for any mistakes, you see, English is not my first language.

Christian
[/quote]

For one, a lot of that background information wasn’t really necessary. But I’m going to ask you a series of questions:

What do you think you should do? You’ve probably read by now that deadlifts are an excellent mass builder as you probably wouldn’t have asked this question. Do you think you’re going to lift weights so heavy you’ll render your back useless?

Also, should you ever do an exercise and not pay attention to strict form?

And one more thing, if you think you have a weak lower back, why would you cease to do squats - an exercise which will strengthen your lower back (amongst other things)? Squats are not an inherently unsafe exercise, unless done incorrectly.

All in all, think about those few questions and make your own decision. You’ll probably find it’s an easy answer (especially to search for, hint).

4

You want to be 165 lbs? You want to avoid those scary free weights? Go sit on some machines and read Men’s Health between sets. You don’t belong here.

5

Why is it that when ever I read or hear the word posture I get paranoid and feel the need to straighten out my back?

6

way more information than necessary. yes, do deadlifts. Just don’t go to heavy (weight that you can use for less than 5-6 reps) at first. Build up your foundation, and when you’ve got some decent strength, go heavier. Just use good form. And LISTEN TO YOU BACK.

7

I would reccommend not deadlifting, but use the 1-leg SLDL. Squatting and other single leg exercises are necessary. Forget the leg press.

8

Don’t stretch your lower back. Start reading those articles!
<-----

9

Family doctors too often simply tell a patient not to do something the patient feels pain from, or uncomfortable with.

Have you thought about getting a second opinion, at least? Preferably from a sports doctor?

It seems if you suffer from a weak lower back, the simple solution is to strengthen it by doing exercises that strengthen it, like squats and deads.

My vote is to do squats and deads. Light weight, you feel comfortable with should make your lower back stronger. Feel pain/discomfort, then back off.

you do not know unless you try. Take it light at first.

10

At 6’2" I’ve also been advised not to dead or squat. I regularly hurt myself every time I tried to increase the weight. The I watched the Dan John video on lifting correctly and presto! No more troubles and a dramatic increase in weight.

*note: I have just injured my lower back near the iliac crest or gluteus medius muscle, but I know I damn well failed to follow good form…

11

Get assessed by a quality strength coach.
Get someone to check the firing patterns of your hams to glutes to lower back. You may be, like a lot of people, lower back dominant and need to re address your firing patterns.

There are a lot of progressions you can go through to get your lower back up to strength. A deadlift is a hip dominant bend pattern. Try to do all of these pain free and see how you go:
Supine bridge on swiss ball
Supine Hip Extension on swiss ball
Swiss Ball hamstring curl (2 joints )
Swiss Ball hamstring curl (1 joint )
S/L Swiss Ball hamstring curl
Hyper Extensions
Dumbbell Squat
Romanian deadlift
Deadlift’s with light weights
yada yada yada

12

Find a new doctor.

You don’t need to wait until you decide to bulk to start deadlifting. Same goes for squats. They are both great exercises for strengthening the posterior chain. Start light, and focus on form. Avoiding an exercise that will help strengthen your weaknesses is foolish.

Save the static stretching for after the workout, try a dynamic warmup first.

If you’re doing cardio while trying to bulk, intervals work much better than steady state cardio (energy systems work - ESW).

Re-assess your goals when you hit 165, you may decide that you could still use a little more size, but that’s up to you.

13

[quote]stockzy wrote:
Get assessed by a quality strength coach.
Get someone to check the firing patterns of your hams to glutes to lower back. You may be, like a lot of people, lower back dominant and need to re address your firing patterns.

There are a lot of progressions you can go through to get your lower back up to strength. A deadlift is a hip dominant bend pattern. Try to do all of these pain free and see how you go:
Supine bridge on swiss ball
Supine Hip Extension on swiss ball
Swiss Ball hamstring curl (2 joints )
Swiss Ball hamstring curl (1 joint )
S/L Swiss Ball hamstring curl
Hyper Extensions
Dumbbell Squat
Romanian deadlift
Deadlift’s with light weights
yada yada yada
[/quote]

Thanks a lot for all the advice.
I got evaluated this week by a personal trainer.
He said my ham strings are very tight. Not a surprise since I have never been able to touch my toes without bending my knees.
He is going to help me stretch them and hopefully, that will take care of the back.
Also, I will re-assess my goals. You guys may be right and I should go for a little more size.

Thanks again.

14

Your hamstrings are long enough to perform deadlifts, but peraps not from the floor.

I’d advise performing the movement from pins in a squat cage, perhaps at knee height or just below. Use submaximal weights/efforts (sets of 5-6 where 9-10 are possible) and focus on grooving correct posture, both lower and upper back.

And a quick cue to help you envision what I mean by correct posture for squats/pulls): stand upright, close your eyes, and imagine someone is pressing a cold, wet ice cube into your lower back. What’s your instinctive reaction? Your low back arches as your shoulders pull back and down, and your chest lifts high…THIS is the position you’re looking for.

Hope that helps- let us all know how it goes…

[quote]papasalas wrote:
stockzy wrote:
Get assessed by a quality strength coach.
Get someone to check the firing patterns of your hams to glutes to lower back. You may be, like a lot of people, lower back dominant and need to re address your firing patterns.

There are a lot of progressions you can go through to get your lower back up to strength. A deadlift is a hip dominant bend pattern. Try to do all of these pain free and see how you go:
Supine bridge on swiss ball
Supine Hip Extension on swiss ball
Swiss Ball hamstring curl (2 joints )
Swiss Ball hamstring curl (1 joint )
S/L Swiss Ball hamstring curl
Hyper Extensions
Dumbbell Squat
Romanian deadlift
Deadlift’s with light weights
yada yada yada

Thanks a lot for all the advice.
I got evaluated this week by a personal trainer.
He said my ham strings are very tight. Not a surprise since I have never been able to touch my toes without bending my knees.
He is going to help me stretch them and hopefully, that will take care of the back.
Also, I will re-assess my goals. You guys may be right and I should go for a little more size.

Thanks again.
[/quote]

15

Based on what you said, you solutely need to deadlift. You need to get that back stronger and nothing will do it as fast or as effectively as deadlifting.

Your first two week should be spent getting to know the movement. Given your stats I’d start with 95 lbs. on the bar and go for 3 sets for 12 to 15 reps. Concentrate on form. Make every rep as perfect as possible. Explode up, hold at the top, let down slow (not mega slow, just be natural. Don’t drop the weight.) Do this 2 to 3 times per week.

I recommend the higher rep scheme with low weight so you can feel the fatigue, with a relativly light load. This will give you a glimps of what heavier weights feel like with less risk of injury.

After two weeks increase weight and add sets but lower reps. For instance, 5 set at 135 lbs. for 5 to 7 reps.

If you feel any pain in your back stop imediately. Rest, recover and reapproach at a lighter weight.

This will make a huge diffence to everything your are doing in the gym.
Once you get to 165 lbs, you won’t be happy. So keep lifting!

16

There is good reason that almost all professional athletes in almost all sports deadlift and squat.

17

I say do it. I too have a pretty weak lower back and started to learn DL’s to strenghten it. Sure enough, they have been the absolute most effective exercise for my spinal erectors i have ever done. Actually, they are about on par with a Romanian style DL but i rtarely do those becasue i find it hnard to keep the natural curve in my lower back.

For what it is worth, i usually have a mild, dull pain in my lower back that comes and goes every so often . Whenever i feel it coming on and do DL’s they pain subsides and generally does not return.

The supposed “unsafe for the lower back exercise” is only unsafe if done wrong (like any other). Otherwise it is a natural movement pattern that, for me, has done wonders for my core.

18

[quote]Modi wrote:
Find a new doctor.

You don’t need to wait until you decide to bulk to start deadlifting. Same goes for squats. They are both great exercises for strengthening the posterior chain. Start light, and focus on form. Avoiding an exercise that will help strengthen your weaknesses is foolish.

Save the static stretching for after the workout, try a dynamic warmup first.

If you’re doing cardio while trying to bulk, intervals work much better than steady state cardio (energy systems work - ESW).

Re-assess your goals when you hit 165, you may decide that you could still use a little more size, but that’s up to you.[/quote]

Thumbs up to this whole post.

Doctors can be great mechanics, but they don’t seem to know how to drive.

A big yay on the reassessment thing particularly as well. Size and strength are addictive and you may want more.

I get a lot out of deadlifts and am not a guy who is naturally predisposed to weightlifting in general and squats and deads in particular. I learned to do em right and have no issues. You can do it too.

19
  1. I’m a beginner, but
  2. I’m recovering from some injuries, a messed-up back among them.
  3. I don’t know what other issues (aside from the tight hams) you have that could be affecting your back.

My own experience, though, is this: I’ve been doing deads and squats for some months now and find that the deads, particularly, make my back feel better. I think they help my alignment as well. I got a very slow start – with just the bar, and that not very well – but I concentrate on strict form. I go up in weight as I feel able, and back off if I feel myself begin to cheat. If you’re not going for max lifts all the time or trying to show off, I think deads – and variations like the Romanian DL – can be theraputic. If you cheat yourself and turn a dead into an “upward spine roll”, though, I think you’re asking for trouble.

This is my own, admittedly limited experience, but they make my back feel stronger.

20

[quote]HoratioSandoval wrote:
Don’t stretch your lower back. Start reading those articles!
<----- [/quote]

What he said.
I’m glad I started reading responses before posting. Work on lumbar stability (lots of side/prone bridges) to help your back, and go pick up something heavy.