[quote]Dirty Tiger wrote:
TheWookie wrote:
HIJACK
Did any one see Anderson Silva?s bitch-slap Chris Leben? It was a thing of beauty.
It was the first time I saw a fighter get knocked out TWICE in the same fight.[/quote]
I was sitting there with my wife when this fight started and watching Anderson in the first couple seconds, I said, “Holy shit, look at that foot work, this is going to be interesting.”
Little did I know what was to come.
[quote]Kritikos wrote:
Ken didn’t start off in professional wrestling, he got into it much later[/quote]
Actually, Ken started off in pro wrestling on the independant circuit and small japanese shows long before he tried his hand at MMA. He got noticed while working ‘stiff’ worked matches in Japan and that in turn led to him being invited to fight in Pancrase, which started out as a mixed work/shoot organziation.
Net, Shamrock started out in pro-wrestling, left to do the NHB/MMA thing when the UFC and Pancrase were formed, then went back to pro-wrestling when the WWF came calling, and finally returned to MMA when his pro-wrestling career went in the crapper.
Wrong, Read Inside the Lion’s Den.
[quote]Kr
Ken didn’t start off in professional wrestling, he got into it much later because he had a family that he needed to support (and he obviously didn’t have the smarts to have an actual job). He started off as a street brawler, got into Pancrase, became King of Pancrase, then went to the UFC…
.[/quote]
I have to say though, Tito’s training and conditioning seem much more elevated than when I saw Ken training…hmmmm.
[quote]EmperialChina wrote:
I have to say though, Tito’s training and conditioning seem much more elevated than when I saw Ken training…hmmmm.[/quote]
You watched that whole thing? I flipped over to it from time to time, hoping they’d show a whole fight, but no luck.
[quote]MaloVerde wrote:
gpease wrote:
Mike Sullivan wrote:
I would like to see the return of Frank Shamrock. A much better fighter than Ken.
UFC 22 
All the proof Frank needs i think
Proof of what? That fight was in 1999. Tito would tear Frank up today! Ken is going to be a puddle of geriatric goo come saturday.
[/quote]
MaloVerde,
Actually I’d have to disagree that Tito would beat Frank. Did you watch their fight? Frank made Tito look like a complete chump. In fact, he beat him so badly that Tito actually went and had Frank train him after that fight. This of course made for an extremely uncomfortable position for Frank when it came time for Tito to fight Ken.
I’ve met Frank (my former instructors Walt and Charlie Lysak are good friends with him), and he is still in phenomenal shape. I’d honestly have to say that he’s still one of the best MMA fighters, pound for pound, in the world. I’d love to see him come back into the UFC and clean house. But unfortunately there is some really bad blood between the UFC and Frank. So, sadly I don’t expect that to ever happen.
As for predictions for the fight, I honestly expect Tito to win. I’d like to see Ken win, but I don’t really expect that to happen. Ken is just too beaten up and old. I mean the guy has had his neck broken for goodness sake. The fact that he’s even still fighting is impressive. But, I still don’t see him winning this fight.
Good training,
Sentoguy
[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
EmperialChina wrote:
I have to say though, Tito’s training and conditioning seem much more elevated than when I saw Ken training…hmmmm.
You watched that whole thing? I flipped over to it from time to time, hoping they’d show a whole fight, but no luck.[/quote]
I’ve never been a shamrock fan. As soon as his part of all access came on, I was out the door running errands.
tuf also showed how weak ass his is as a coach.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
MaloVerde wrote:
gpease wrote:
Mike Sullivan wrote:
I would like to see the return of Frank Shamrock. A much better fighter than Ken.
UFC 22
All the proof Frank needs i think
Proof of what? That fight was in 1999. Tito would tear Frank up today! Ken is going to be a puddle of geriatric goo come saturday.
MaloVerde,
Actually I’d have to disagree that Tito would beat Frank. Did you watch their fight? Frank made Tito look like a complete chump. In fact, he beat him so badly that Tito actually went and had Frank train him after that fight. This of course made for an extremely uncomfortable position for Frank when it came time for Tito to fight Ken.
I’ve met Frank (my former instructors Walt and Charlie Lysak are good friends with him), and he is still in phenomenal shape. I’d honestly have to say that he’s still one of the best MMA fighters, pound for pound, in the world. I’d love to see him come back into the UFC and clean house. But unfortunately there is some really bad blood between the UFC and Frank. So, sadly I don’t expect that to ever happen.
As for predictions for the fight, I honestly expect Tito to win. I’d like to see Ken win, but I don’t really expect that to happen. Ken is just too beaten up and old. I mean the guy has had his neck broken for goodness sake. The fact that he’s even still fighting is impressive. But, I still don’t see him winning this fight.
Good training,
Sentoguy[/quote]
I like Frank. It has been a long time though since he has fought elite competition. Yes he beat Tito. Though Tito took him down almost at will. Sometimes though Frank just let him. I do not think he can afford to do that these days. Besides the Tito win, whih was probably his biggest, he has a win over Elvis and Horn. Losses against Bas, and a ko loss against Kondo Yuki(who is good).
Frank was better later in his career though. These days if he fought in Pride the way he fought against Tito, he would have a tough time.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
MaloVerde wrote:
gpease wrote:
Mike Sullivan wrote:
I would like to see the return of Frank Shamrock. A much better fighter than Ken.
UFC 22
All the proof Frank needs i think
Proof of what? That fight was in 1999. Tito would tear Frank up today! Ken is going to be a puddle of geriatric goo come saturday.
MaloVerde,
Actually I’d have to disagree that Tito would beat Frank. Did you watch their fight? Frank made Tito look like a complete chump. In fact, he beat him so badly that Tito actually went and had Frank train him after that fight. This of course made for an extremely uncomfortable position for Frank when it came time for Tito to fight Ken.
I’ve met Frank (my former instructors Walt and Charlie Lysak are good friends with him), and he is still in phenomenal shape. I’d honestly have to say that he’s still one of the best MMA fighters, pound for pound, in the world. I’d love to see him come back into the UFC and clean house. But unfortunately there is some really bad blood between the UFC and Frank. So, sadly I don’t expect that to ever happen.
As for predictions for the fight, I honestly expect Tito to win. I’d like to see Ken win, but I don’t really expect that to happen. Ken is just too beaten up and old. I mean the guy has had his neck broken for goodness sake. The fact that he’s even still fighting is impressive. But, I still don’t see him winning this fight.
Good training,
Sentoguy[/quote]
You are obviously in love with everything that is Shamrock because you are completely delusional if you think Frank or Ken would beat Tito today. Yesterday maybe, but not today.
Frank Shamrock is quite the enigma to me…lots of “what could have been” if he had stuck with it. He was very dominate and one of the first well-rounded guys in MMA. I give him a way better shot of beating Tito than Ken has though.
It only takes one fuck up though, and I’m willing to bet Ken will be swinging or kicking for the fences, hoping to knock one Tito Ortiz out. That said, I’m still picking Tito to win the fight.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
Frank Shamrock is quite the enigma to me…lots of “what could have been” if he had stuck with it. He was very dominate and one of the first well-rounded guys in MMA. I give him a way better shot of beating Tito than Ken has though.
It only takes one fuck up though, and I’m willing to bet Ken will be swinging or kicking for the fences, hoping to knock one Tito Ortiz out. That said, I’m still picking Tito to win the fight.[/quote]
I wonder what the odds are for this fight, it might actually be worth putting some money down on Ken just in case he does get lucky(which he won’t).
[quote]uv_deth wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
EmperialChina wrote:
I have to say though, Tito’s training and conditioning seem much more elevated than when I saw Ken training…hmmmm.
You watched that whole thing? I flipped over to it from time to time, hoping they’d show a whole fight, but no luck.
I’ve never been a shamrock fan. As soon as his part of all access came on, I was out the door running errands.
tuf also showed how weak ass his is as a coach.
[/quote]
did it ever occur to you the producers of that show did that on purpose? if you watch it carefully, they basically never showed Ken training his fighters. Odd? yeah. their is no way in hell he wouldn’t have trained them. even just a little bit. it was even a fucking theme through that show - “oh, Ken doesn’t give us cardio. Tito’s camp has cardio.” Fuck that bullshit. the people running that show took those moments with Ken out of context to sell a theme. disrespectful to Ken to say the least.
[quote]StevenF wrote:
yup.
[/quote]
nothing make-up couldn’t hide.
[quote]jdrannin1 wrote:
uv_deth wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
EmperialChina wrote:
I have to say though, Tito’s training and conditioning seem much more elevated than when I saw Ken training…hmmmm.
You watched that whole thing? I flipped over to it from time to time, hoping they’d show a whole fight, but no luck.
I’ve never been a shamrock fan. As soon as his part of all access came on, I was out the door running errands.
tuf also showed how weak ass his is as a coach.
did it ever occur to you the producers of that show did that on purpose? if you watch it carefully, they basically never showed Ken training his fighters. Odd? yeah. their is no way in hell he wouldn’t have trained them. even just a little bit. it was even a fucking theme through that show - “oh, Ken doesn’t give us cardio. Tito’s camp has cardio.” Fuck that bullshit. the people running that show took those moments with Ken out of context to sell a theme. disrespectful to Ken to say the least.[/quote]
Are you saying that there was a conspiracy between Dana White and Ken’s group leading up to them all losing? Yeah, I’m sure. These guys want to be fighters and wouldn’t lose just so Ken would look bad.
Aside from that, I think Tito’s group just happened to be better. They were only in the house for six weeks for crying out loud. How much could they actually learn and retain in such a short time? The guys who won and lost would have probably done so without coaching from either Tito or Ken. Just my .02.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
I only recently started following mma, but I remember hearing about hte shamrock-ortiz match, something about tito showboating in a match against a lions den opponent, so there was genuine bad blood, etc. I watched the match last night and at the end they hugged, it seemed like everything was cool. so what happened between then and now that shamrock went after tito when they were both announced as TUF 3 coaches. Was that just publicity stunt bs or did tito run his mouth again after the fight?[/quote]
i dont know if i heard this right but i think when they huged tito said " I still have no respect for u" or something like that
[quote]StevenF wrote:
yup.
[/quote]
That looks like him after the second round. He looked a lot worse at the end of the fight.
[quote]jdrannin1 wrote:
uv_deth wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
EmperialChina wrote:
I have to say though, Tito’s training and conditioning seem much more elevated than when I saw Ken training…hmmmm.
You watched that whole thing? I flipped over to it from time to time, hoping they’d show a whole fight, but no luck.
I’ve never been a shamrock fan. As soon as his part of all access came on, I was out the door running errands.
tuf also showed how weak ass his is as a coach.
did it ever occur to you the producers of that show did that on purpose? if you watch it carefully, they basically never showed Ken training his fighters. Odd? yeah. their is no way in hell he wouldn’t have trained them. even just a little bit. it was even a fucking theme through that show - “oh, Ken doesn’t give us cardio. Tito’s camp has cardio.” Fuck that bullshit. the people running that show took those moments with Ken out of context to sell a theme. disrespectful to Ken to say the least.[/quote]
What? I wasn’t talking about Ken’s and Tito’s coaching on The Ultimate Fighter. I was talking about their training regiment highlights for their upcoming fight with eachother, not the TUF show.
Of course television will create semi-illusions or exploit certain situations but the coaching was obviously non-existent.
[quote]jdrannin1 wrote:
uv_deth wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
EmperialChina wrote:
I have to say though, Tito’s training and conditioning seem much more elevated than when I saw Ken training…hmmmm.
You watched that whole thing? I flipped over to it from time to time, hoping they’d show a whole fight, but no luck.
I’ve never been a shamrock fan. As soon as his part of all access came on, I was out the door running errands.
tuf also showed how weak ass his is as a coach.
did it ever occur to you the producers of that show did that on purpose? if you watch it carefully, they basically never showed Ken training his fighters. Odd? yeah. their is no way in hell he wouldn’t have trained them. even just a little bit. it was even a fucking theme through that show - “oh, Ken doesn’t give us cardio. Tito’s camp has cardio.” Fuck that bullshit. the people running that show took those moments with Ken out of context to sell a theme. disrespectful to Ken to say the least.[/quote]
I agree 100%. They already knew the outcome of the fights when they edited the shows so they picked a theme of Ken being a bad trainer/coach and reinforced it with editing.
It is all a big joke. The fights started right away and were done in six weeks. How much impact could a coach have?
At the same time the odds that Tito just magically picked fighters who would all win, is a bit ridiculous.
I am wondering if Arlovski will win this bout with Tim, I am rooting for him.
How about a Cro-Cop vs. Arlavski fight? That would be good.