Tipping - Good Idea or Bad Idea

Off Topic
141

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
so stupid.

Tipping is not necessary. I see how much fuckers make on tips. How about we pay a legal wage and no
tips?

[/quote]

Skyzyks

That would be a great solution to a problem that seems to cause endless amounts of frustration for those poor waiters and waitresses.

It takes way too long to gain compliance through out an entire industry though. I say we just quit tipping to force restaurateurs hand a little.

They’ll do the right thing.
[/quote]

SkyzykS

As I think you know, I am a fan of yours. The thing of what you suggest is that the wait staff are gamblers. I audit restaurants at casinos and there is no way in heck that wait staff are going to take a minimum wage. Did you see the post of the one guy who posted that $11.00 dollars an hour was ONE THIRD WHAT HE MADE AS A WAITER. Holey fucking moley if you are making $33.00 an hour to bring me a salad.

fucking unbelievable.
[/quote]

Well, they can sort out the terms of their employment with managers and owners just like the rest of the world does, can’t they?

Sure, it’s a risk. What isn’t?

Top servers at good restaurants would be able to command a decent wage, couldn’t they?

It would be just like any other business where you sell your time and abilities for an agreed upon amount.

Can’t be nearly as much of a gamble as relying on something as persnickety as another persons perception of your ability, looks, or any of the other various intangibles that go into determining a tip.
[/quote]

What are you suggesting?

Is there a tier system? I can then request at the restaurant that I want the BEST servers?

Because that is kinda what tips are engendering.

Tips are stupid. They are subjective. Some folks get tips because they are pretty. YOU KNOW THAT.

how is that okay?

How is it that I propose a system that folks make a living wage and it is shot down as horrible and awful? “sniffle sniffle… but… but… I brought you your sald quickly”… oh come on.

142

[quote]CBear84 wrote:

food and beauty service staff are entitled to a tip because you COULD do that shit yourself, and are actively choosing not to. in the case of waiters, and most chain beauticians, their hourly wage is enough to scoff at BECAUSE THEY’RE COUNTING ON TIPS.

[/quote]

This is so retarded it hurts. You could also build your own fucking house if you were so inclined.

And the kid that was saying he makes $38/hr as a waiter is proof the system is broken. No job that takes 0 education or skill should make that kind of money. And before you jump all over me, I’ve worked as a waiter. It’s not that hard. Work a couple weeks of construction and then bitch about “the customers were so rude”.

@ other angry T-Waiters: We understand that waiters aren’t paid minimum wage. The whole entire point of this thread is that waiters should get paid a fair wage and we should get rid of the system of tipping.

143

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]CBear84 wrote:

food and beauty service staff are entitled to a tip because you COULD do that shit yourself, and are actively choosing not to. in the case of waiters, and most chain beauticians, their hourly wage is enough to scoff at BECAUSE THEY’RE COUNTING ON TIPS.

[/quote]

So when my wife was working as a sales consultant for straight commission are people obligated to buy due to the fact that SHES COUNTING ON THAT COMMISSION? That had no hourly wage at all.

I mean, people can write and file a patent themselves, they just choose not to.

[/quote]

I gotta say I am ignorant in regards to your wife’s career.

I was only posting in regards to the food industry.

[/quote]

I was only pointing out that just because someone is depending on something doesn’t mean that they should automatically get it.

The quality and quantity of work counts too. Straight commission sales is as tough as it gets when it comes to that.

144

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]CBear84 wrote:

food and beauty service staff are entitled to a tip because you COULD do that shit yourself, and are actively choosing not to. in the case of waiters, and most chain beauticians, their hourly wage is enough to scoff at BECAUSE THEY’RE COUNTING ON TIPS.

[/quote]

So when my wife was working as a sales consultant for straight commission are people obligated to buy due to the fact that SHES COUNTING ON THAT COMMISSION? That had no hourly wage at all.

I mean, people can write and file a patent themselves, they just choose not to.

[/quote]

I gotta say I am ignorant in regards to your wife’s career.

I was only posting in regards to the food industry.

[/quote]

I was only pointing out that just because someone is depending on something doesn’t mean that they should automatically get it.

The quality and quantity of work counts too. Straight commission sales is as tough as it gets when it comes to that.

[/quote]

So you are throwing real estate et al in to the mix. Well I don’t know. Man… that does suck because I would imagine that would be on a much larger scale.

Don’t you think then it would be better for it not to be so subjective? If your wife worked X hours she should be paid for X hours.

145

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Have you never gone out, been really drunk and taken a taxi cab home?[/quote]

The last time I did that, the guy who owned the taxi had me charged with grand theft auto.

146

[quote]Broncoandy wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Have you never gone out, been really drunk and taken a taxi cab home?[/quote]

The last time I did that, the guy who owned the taxi had me charged with grand theft auto.[/quote]

awesome… that is the way to take a taxi ride.

147

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]CBear84 wrote:

food and beauty service staff are entitled to a tip because you COULD do that shit yourself, and are actively choosing not to. in the case of waiters, and most chain beauticians, their hourly wage is enough to scoff at BECAUSE THEY’RE COUNTING ON TIPS.

[/quote]

This is so retarded it hurts. You could also build your own fucking house if you were so inclined.

And the kid that was saying he makes $38/hr as a waiter is proof the system is broken. No job that takes 0 education or skill should make that kind of money. And before you jump all over me, I’ve worked as a waiter. It’s not that hard. Work a couple weeks of construction and then bitch about “the customers were so rude”.

@ other angry T-Waiters: We understand that waiters aren’t paid minimum wage. The whole entire point of this thread is that waiters should get paid a fair wage and we should get rid of the system of tipping. [/quote]

exactly

148

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

What are you suggesting?

Is there a tier system? I can then request at the restaurant that I want the BEST servers?

Because that is kinda what tips are engendering.

Tips are stupid. They are subjective. Some folks get tips because they are pretty. YOU KNOW THAT.

how is that okay?

How is it that I propose a system that folks make a living wage and it is shot down as horrible and awful? “sniffle sniffle… but… but… I brought you your sald quickly”… oh come on. [/quote]

It would be just like a regular business.

Like the tree company I worked at. We all worked really hard and did our jobs very well. We had a moderate price range and a high quality of service. This created a good reputation and we were very successful. Everybody got paid what they were worth, and if they weren’t up to snuff for what ever reason, they got canned. Likewise, if they didn’t like the deal, they could go elsewhere.

No need to tip. They could receive a regular paycheck based on hourly wage x hours worked.

Just like everybody else.

149

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

So you are throwing real estate et al in to the mix. Well I don’t know. Man… that does suck because I would imagine that would be on a much larger scale.

Don’t you think then it would be better for it not to be so subjective? If your wife worked X hours she should be paid for X hours.

[/quote]

Nah. Thats just part of the risk/reward of it. Put your ass on the line and if all goes well Big Reward. If it doesn’t, well they REALLY NEEDED THAT COMMISSION! :slight_smile:
(smiley face to illustrate my barely perceptible humor)

150

[quote]MementoMori wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]MementoMori wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
^ You are right I did not read the article I am trying to fix the kids dinner and wind down after work. I enjoy adult discussions on issues. And like I said before being on the other end of the spectrum has made me look at things from a different perspective.

So a start up company would have to set a wage that would allow them to grow, most business fail in the first 5 years.

In my mind this set up is like a true democracy you pay for what you get. [/quote]

Do you have In N Out Burger where you are? In San Diego it starts at $11.00 an hour with full benefits. No tipping.

Damn good burger. This is a double double animal style. They also have low carb where they trade out the bun for lettuce.

Is it a true democracy? You don’t pay your tip until the end.

[/quote]

Servers should make a third of their current income because unemployment is 14%? That is insulting logic. How about you be the first to take this pay cut?[/quote]

How about you explain that. And why would I take a pay cut? I don’t make extra with tips.

If you are saying you make $33.00 an hour, … damn buddy, you are making buck.

[/quote]

My meaning is that regardless of how it happens: the average servers wage is around 25-30 dollars an hour. Just because there is some place that makes way less and there is unemployment doesn’t mean that server doesn’t deserve their money.

That logical applies no more to a server who just so happens to reserve tips than it does to you.

As for my making of buck. On a saturday night I make maybe 38 per hour. But I put in alot of work while the bar is closed to make that possible so the average is closer to 25.

What a person makes though is irrelevant to how much they helped you. I tip because my bartender/server/barber did me a long personal service, one for which their salary does NOT reward them.
[/quote]

I just want to keep this out there that apparently wait staff makes about $38.00 an hour. No college education required.

151

It has been a while, but I seem to remember from my college Economics courses that an increase in costs to the supplier will result in higher prices. As such, eliminating the practice of tipping will result in higher prices for food at restaurants. Management will not ‘eat’ (heh heh) the cost of paying servers and the customer will be implicitly ‘tipping’ by paying this higher price.

Management at nicer restaurants with bigger profit margins would be willing to pay more for good servers. In fact, although the amount of the price increase could only be guessed, I wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up being proportionate to the value of the food bought.

Wouldn’t a better system be to let the value of service rendered be decided by the customer and not management? This is the tipping system. I agree that it has gotten outlandish and excessive (servers expecting 20% for standard service) and feel no pity for servers who complain about a random 10% tip here and there, after all they are free to enter and leave the profession in this free market society.

152

[quote]CBear84 wrote:
It’s not fiscal blackmail, in the article OR in the states.

The article I read that you posted said that the gratuity is added in red, explained, and that the customer doesn’t have to pay if they don’t want to.

Seems to be a decent explanation of a custom for people who would otherwise be ignorant of the situation.

and they STILL have an out. they DONT have to tip.

Neither do you.

Either at a restaurant or McDonalds.

I beg you to keep going to the same sitdown restaurant on the same night of the week, and keep NOT tipping. Tell us what the service is like after 2 months. And stop tipping at your coffee place, let us know how that goes as well.

It’s just as illogical to raise the price of a meal to compensate for a standard waitstaff wage as for you to move to another country to solve the problem.

would you pay $70 for a meal at a sportsbar restaurant (Applebees, TGI Fridays, etc) for 2 people with no drinks, because all of the waitstaff now makes $17 an hour?

Or would you rather give the waiter/waitress $5 tip on a $30 bill?

[/quote]

I love math magic where tipping makes a meal become $70.00.

pooof! math magic. =)

153

[quote]TunaMonkey wrote:
It has been a while, but I seem to remember from my college Economics courses that an increase in costs to the supplier will result in higher prices. As such, eliminating the practice of tipping will result in higher prices for food at restaurants. Management will not ‘eat’ (heh heh) the cost of paying servers and the customer will be implicitly ‘tipping’ by paying this higher price.

Management at nicer restaurants with bigger profit margins would be willing to pay more for good servers. In fact, although the amount of the price increase could only be guessed, I wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up being proportionate to the value of the food bought.

Wouldn’t a better system be to let the value of service rendered be decided by the customer and not management? This is the tipping system. I agree that it has gotten outlandish and excessive (servers expecting 20% for standard service) and feel no pity for servers who complain about a random 10% tip here and there, after all they are free to enter and leave the profession in this free market society.[/quote]

I am pretty sure I did post that I would understandably pay more for my dining experience if I did not tip.

It is doable as most European countries manage to survive this way.

I do not prefer to make up the wait staff’s wage on a hit and miss system of him or her having a good day and providing me with a meal where I then decide how much to benefit my server who will then lie to the IRS and make $38.00 an hour.

154

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]TunaMonkey wrote:
It has been a while, but I seem to remember from my college Economics courses that an increase in costs to the supplier will result in higher prices. As such, eliminating the practice of tipping will result in higher prices for food at restaurants. Management will not ‘eat’ (heh heh) the cost of paying servers and the customer will be implicitly ‘tipping’ by paying this higher price.

Management at nicer restaurants with bigger profit margins would be willing to pay more for good servers. In fact, although the amount of the price increase could only be guessed, I wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up being proportionate to the value of the food bought.

Wouldn’t a better system be to let the value of service rendered be decided by the customer and not management? This is the tipping system. I agree that it has gotten outlandish and excessive (servers expecting 20% for standard service) and feel no pity for servers who complain about a random 10% tip here and there, after all they are free to enter and leave the profession in this free market society.[/quote]

I am pretty sure I did post that I would understandably pay more for my dining experience if I did not tip.

It is doable as most European countries manage to survive this way.

I do not prefer to make up the wait staff’s wage on a hit and miss system of him or her having a good day and providing me with a meal where I then decide how much to benefit my server who will then lie to the IRS and make $38.00 an hour.

[/quote]

Fair enough, I would rather pay directly for the service. Have you been to a country where they do not tip? The service is at best passable and nonchalant and at worst hostile.

155

[quote]TunaMonkey wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]TunaMonkey wrote:
It has been a while, but I seem to remember from my college Economics courses that an increase in costs to the supplier will result in higher prices. As such, eliminating the practice of tipping will result in higher prices for food at restaurants. Management will not ‘eat’ (heh heh) the cost of paying servers and the customer will be implicitly ‘tipping’ by paying this higher price.

Management at nicer restaurants with bigger profit margins would be willing to pay more for good servers. In fact, although the amount of the price increase could only be guessed, I wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up being proportionate to the value of the food bought.

Wouldn’t a better system be to let the value of service rendered be decided by the customer and not management? This is the tipping system. I agree that it has gotten outlandish and excessive (servers expecting 20% for standard service) and feel no pity for servers who complain about a random 10% tip here and there, after all they are free to enter and leave the profession in this free market society.[/quote]

I am pretty sure I did post that I would understandably pay more for my dining experience if I did not tip.

It is doable as most European countries manage to survive this way.

I do not prefer to make up the wait staff’s wage on a hit and miss system of him or her having a good day and providing me with a meal where I then decide how much to benefit my server who will then lie to the IRS and make $38.00 an hour.

[/quote]

Fair enough, I would rather pay directly for the service. Have you been to a country where they do not tip? The service is at best passable and nonchalant and at worst hostile.[/quote]

I have travelled, and I have actually tipped in foreign countries to a point where my money was given back. I haven’t been to France so I can’t say it was hostile or nonchalant. =)

ah what to say.

It seems I may be the only one batting on this team.

I am not sure why it seems to be so revolutionary to propose that wait staff be paid a living wage. Although, when you read someone saying they make [u]$38.00 an hour[/u] to bring you bread sticks,… well… .maybe you can see where they want to keep getting tips.

That is why we pay tips and why they are okay with making less than a living wage because everyone else makes up their pay.

156

It’s pretty rare that the service in alot of places warrents a percentage based tip. I get better service when I spend 10 bucks on breakfast as I do when I spend 70 on dinner. The woman who serves me my steak and eggs at the diner down town has my food on prep when I walk in the door, I never see the bottom of my coffee cup, and she’s quick with the bill when I’m ready to leave. I never get service that good when I go out at dinner time. I leave the woman at the diner a couple bucks, and that’s all they get at the steak house too.

157

Very few people are worth 38 dollars an hour but there’s an awful lot of people that do make that much and more. The thing that makes waiters queer is that the worst waiters are often the best paid because of the percentage based tipping that goes on.

158

Just to put it out there, I do tip because it is the custom. So long as it is the custom I will continue to do so. I am aware that wait staff is taxed on 8% of my bill. I would not short wait staff that money unless they were so horrific but in that case I would imagine I would tell the manager.

In any case, this thread was started due to an article on cnn.com about a restaurant catering to many foreigners who have begun a practice of adding a tip to non-English speaking customers who may not be in the custom of paying tips.

tips are optional. Should wait staff feel entitled or depend on optional tips? would living wage be better? Although one person on here stated they make [u]$38.00 an hour[/u] with tips. wow… that is quite a bit so I see why wait staff would prefer tips.

160

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I understand OG’s point of view even if I don’t necessarily agree 100%.

What I do not agree with (not saying she is pushing this) is some kind of government intervention that forces employers to pay a “decent wage” to waiters/waitresses (or anyone else for that matter).

Minimum and prevailing wage laws are classic examples of BIG government thinking it HAS to stick its filthy, blundering nose in everyone’s business so that all of society’s inequities are solved with the pseudo magic wand of rules and regulations.[/quote]

So on a broad scale do you think there should not be a minimum wage at all?

interesting idea.