Tipping - Good Idea or Bad Idea

Off Topic
541

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Okay, does no one understand the costs in running a restaurant? Labor is already the largest part of the budget and that’s at $3.10 (I think is the current wage) an hour BEFORE tips. Servers tip out bussers, bartenders, cooks, expediters, etc. And don’t forget that some places take 10% of all credit card tips (for the cost of accepting credit cards) so the server is already getting gypped on tips.

There is no way a restaurant or bar could survive and make a profit if it had to pay a “living” wage without tips. The meal prices would skyrocket. [/quote]

Define “skyrocket”…you honestly think the price of meals would increase by more than the 20% (or whatever expected tips are)? How would you come to that conclusion???

I submit that I would end up paying LESS overall for my restaurant experience because I would no longer be making up for those deadbeats that do not tip…if an average tip is 10-15%, then my 20% or more “surcharge” on top of my bill would be reduced in half…

And again, I have addressed your phantom skyrocketing prices point in this thread already…there is already a society in which your assumption is disproven…its called THE REST OF THE WORLD…I pay comparable prices in Britain (in pounds) to what I would pay in America (in dollars) for the same restaurant experience (I used TGIFridays and a pub as two examples)…and hell, those British prices are with a nationwide 22% Value Added Tax…so somehow the prices are actually LOWER in these crazy socialist countries…weird how that works…
[/quote]

What is it with some of you circle jerking, wannabe econ majors?

Hey, Charles Schwab:

It’s not just the cost of food. It’s not just the cost of food RELATIVE to the per-capita salary. Running a pub in Britain may not be the same cost-wise as running the same in America, due to cost of utilities, state-mandated minimum wage, cost of LICENSES, etc.

You are neglecting the CULTURAL differences in consumer/diner expectation at a restaurant: Americans are used to more, so if restaurant A (competing with restaurants B-Z) is about to serve 1/3 (approx, but point is relevant) the food because it decided to pay its servers a “living wage,” guess what happens? That restaurant suffers a loss in traffic because diners won’t accept the 2/3 reduction in food quantity and will simply dine at another restaurant.

Or, it means that you and OG would have to cook each other dinner to avoid contributing to the $28/hr salary of these Motherfucking Servers ™

542

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Okay, does no one understand the costs in running a restaurant? Labor is already the largest part of the budget and that’s at $3.10 (I think is the current wage) an hour BEFORE tips. Servers tip out bussers, bartenders, cooks, expediters, etc. And don’t forget that some places take 10% of all credit card tips (for the cost of accepting credit cards) so the server is already getting gypped on tips.

There is no way a restaurant or bar could survive and make a profit if it had to pay a “living” wage without tips. The meal prices would skyrocket. And I’m sorry, but I don’t tip the bathroom person unless I ask them for something and I think it’s RIDICULOUS to have to PAY to use public bathrooms in Europe. It costs 1 pound to use the bathroom at Harrod’s and other places. WTF? [/quote]

It IS ridiculous to pay to use the bathroom. Fuck. That.

I hate how so many people think the European way of doing EVERYTHING is just better than the American way. It’s an annoying, exhausting argument. Europe just has shittier customer service on average; it’s a different mentality that businesses have toward customers in general (on average, I mean).

544

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Okay, does no one understand the costs in running a restaurant? Labor is already the largest part of the budget and that’s at $3.10 (I think is the current wage) an hour BEFORE tips. Servers tip out bussers, bartenders, cooks, expediters, etc. And don’t forget that some places take 10% of all credit card tips (for the cost of accepting credit cards) so the server is already getting gypped on tips.

There is no way a restaurant or bar could survive and make a profit if it had to pay a “living” wage without tips. The meal prices would skyrocket. [/quote]

Define “skyrocket”…you honestly think the price of meals would increase by more than the 20% (or whatever expected tips are)? How would you come to that conclusion???

I submit that I would end up paying LESS overall for my restaurant experience because I would no longer be making up for those deadbeats that do not tip…if an average tip is 10-15%, then my 20% or more “surcharge” on top of my bill would be reduced in half…

And again, I have addressed your phantom skyrocketing prices point in this thread already…there is already a society in which your assumption is disproven…its called THE REST OF THE WORLD…I pay comparable prices in Britain (in pounds) to what I would pay in America (in dollars) for the same restaurant experience (I used TGIFridays and a pub as two examples)…and hell, those British prices are with a nationwide 22% Value Added Tax…so somehow the prices are actually LOWER in these crazy socialist countries…weird how that works…
[/quote]

No, it’s not weird at all when you realize you have to pay to use the fucking toilet. Can you imagine THAT? Paying to use the fucking toilet? Holy hell, you’re defending a culture that eschews tipping for good service but mandates that you pay to take a piss? Have fun with that one, man of the world.

Speaking of which, do you consider that another “cutting edge” or desirable facet of European living?

Do the zillions of (sophisticated) Australians drop their drawers and lift their skirts with glee! while shitting and pissing in Europe?

Are Americans seen as less worldly and jingoistic because they are accustomed to free crappers?

Do European pay-toilets empty into rabbit holes?

When you are in Scotland and you mention to your chums at the bar that you can (legally) whip out your Vienna sausage in America FOR FREE do they shake their heads and remark about what a peculiar and wholly inappropriate custom that is?[/quote]

So I take it you would prefer everyone to take a piss in publicly funded water closets (heh), courtesy of your tax dollars, than to espouse an enterprising free market economy requiring individuals to pay for what they use themselves?

Since we’re on the subject, can I haz bailout?

546

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Okay, does no one understand the costs in running a restaurant? Labor is already the largest part of the budget and that’s at $3.10 (I think is the current wage) an hour BEFORE tips. Servers tip out bussers, bartenders, cooks, expediters, etc. And don’t forget that some places take 10% of all credit card tips (for the cost of accepting credit cards) so the server is already getting gypped on tips.

There is no way a restaurant or bar could survive and make a profit if it had to pay a “living” wage without tips. The meal prices would skyrocket. [/quote]

Define “skyrocket”…you honestly think the price of meals would increase by more than the 20% (or whatever expected tips are)? How would you come to that conclusion???

I submit that I would end up paying LESS overall for my restaurant experience because I would no longer be making up for those deadbeats that do not tip…if an average tip is 10-15%, then my 20% or more “surcharge” on top of my bill would be reduced in half…

And again, I have addressed your phantom skyrocketing prices point in this thread already…there is already a society in which your assumption is disproven…its called THE REST OF THE WORLD…I pay comparable prices in Britain (in pounds) to what I would pay in America (in dollars) for the same restaurant experience (I used TGIFridays and a pub as two examples)…and hell, those British prices are with a nationwide 22% Value Added Tax…so somehow the prices are actually LOWER in these crazy socialist countries…weird how that works…
[/quote]

No, it’s not weird at all when you realize you have to pay to use the fucking toilet. Can you imagine THAT? Paying to use the fucking toilet? Holy hell, you’re defending a culture that eschews tipping for good service but mandates that you pay to take a piss? Have fun with that one, man of the world.

Speaking of which, do you consider that another “cutting edge” or desirable facet of European living?

Do the zillions of (sophisticated) Australians drop their drawers and lift their skirts with glee! while shitting and pissing in Europe?

Are Americans seen as less worldly and jingoistic because they are accustomed to free crappers?

Do European pay-toilets empty into rabbit holes?

When you are in Scotland and you mention to your chums at the bar that you can (legally) whip out your Vienna sausage in America FOR FREE do they shake their heads and remark about what a peculiar and wholly inappropriate custom that is?[/quote]

So I take it you would prefer everyone to take a piss in publicly funded water closets (heh), courtesy of your tax dollars, than to espouse an enterprising free market economy requiring individuals to pay for what they use themselves?

Since we’re on the subject, can I haz bailout?[/quote]

Ummm…by eating at an establishment or purchasing items at a store I HAVE paid to use the facilities, thank you very much! Fuck having to pay an additional amount (however little) to go to the bathroom!

547

Expected Value of Perfect Information:

Knowing everything about a situation before making a decision. Knowing what the server’s average wage per hour is before you decide to tip.

How is that fair?

Will you please bring you tax return forms with you the next time you go out, so that servers can see your annual salary and decide if you make enough money to spend a decent amount and warrant actual service? Sounds fair, right?

It’s none of your business what the individual makes at the end of the year. You are paying for your INSTANCE of service, not feeding some communal parking meter. Your usage warrants the same service and cost (both marginal) as everyone else’s.

548

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Expected Value of Perfect Information:

Knowing everything about a situation before making a decision. Knowing what the server’s average wage per hour is before you decide to tip.

How is that fair?

Will you please bring you tax return forms with you the next time you go out, so that servers can see your annual salary and decide if you make enough money to spend a decent amount and warrant actual service? Sounds fair, right?

It’s none of your business what the individual makes at the end of the year. You are paying for your INSTANCE of service, not feeding some communal parking meter. Your usage warrants the same service and cost (both marginal) as everyone else’s.[/quote]

Get over yourself being so dramatic.

My premise was explained. I just want to pay for my meal and not supplement a lowly paid server.

Pay your server a living wage and charge me more. JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

Get over it Ponce. It is simple. Stop being dramatic.

I tip now because it is the system.

Now I am contemplating a whole protest of “NO TIP TUESDAY” or something like that. Hey, like you say, tipping is optional. Maybe everyone should just opt out. Maybe Facebook can be useful for something after all.

For now I will go and do a GOOD JOB BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I AM PAID FOR. Just like the servers should.

Even though I don’t get a tip. How about that. Doing a good job because that is your job.

549

AngryChicken, I sure don’t respect your reason’s for tipping the bartender. You pretty much said you encourage them to steal from their employers.

You mention free drinks and doubles. Well… I hope they get caught and fired.

I work in an industry that recognizes good tippers and big spenders, but… NO you cannot give stuff away for free. Also it can jeopardize a liquor license.

So get over it folks.

If you read the article this restaurant is ADDING A MANDATORY TIP to the receipt of foreigners. Sure the restaurant says the tip is optional IF THEY QUESTION IT. But what are the chances they do?

I tip because that is they system now, but I will hope for sanity and change in the future.

550

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Okay, does no one understand the costs in running a restaurant? Labor is already the largest part of the budget and that’s at $3.10 (I think is the current wage) an hour BEFORE tips. Servers tip out bussers, bartenders, cooks, expediters, etc. And don’t forget that some places take 10% of all credit card tips (for the cost of accepting credit cards) so the server is already getting gypped on tips.

There is no way a restaurant or bar could survive and make a profit if it had to pay a “living” wage without tips. The meal prices would skyrocket. [/quote]

Define “skyrocket”…you honestly think the price of meals would increase by more than the 20% (or whatever expected tips are)? How would you come to that conclusion???

I submit that I would end up paying LESS overall for my restaurant experience because I would no longer be making up for those deadbeats that do not tip…if an average tip is 10-15%, then my 20% or more “surcharge” on top of my bill would be reduced in half…

And again, I have addressed your phantom skyrocketing prices point in this thread already…there is already a society in which your assumption is disproven…its called THE REST OF THE WORLD…I pay comparable prices in Britain (in pounds) to what I would pay in America (in dollars) for the same restaurant experience (I used TGIFridays and a pub as two examples)…and hell, those British prices are with a nationwide 22% Value Added Tax…so somehow the prices are actually LOWER in these crazy socialist countries…weird how that works…
[/quote]

No, it’s not weird at all when you realize you have to pay to use the fucking toilet. Can you imagine THAT? Paying to use the fucking toilet? Holy hell, you’re defending a culture that eschews tipping for good service but mandates that you pay to take a piss? Have fun with that one, man of the world.

Speaking of which, do you consider that another “cutting edge” or desirable facet of European living?

Do the zillions of (sophisticated) Australians drop their drawers and lift their skirts with glee! while shitting and pissing in Europe?

Are Americans seen as less worldly and jingoistic because they are accustomed to free crappers?

Do European pay-toilets empty into rabbit holes?

When you are in Scotland and you mention to your chums at the bar that you can (legally) whip out your Vienna sausage in America FOR FREE do they shake their heads and remark about what a peculiar and wholly inappropriate custom that is?[/quote]

So I take it you would prefer everyone to take a piss in publicly funded water closets (heh), courtesy of your tax dollars, than to espouse an enterprising free market economy requiring individuals to pay for what they use themselves?..[/quote]

My point is tipping in America is an appropriate custom and I don’t give a flying rabbit hole fuck what some Scottish bastard who has to fumble in his pants pockets hoping to heaven he has his pence ready so he doesn’t shit himself has to say about it.

[/quote]

What makes it appropriate specifically besides it just being tradition?

Because we can discuss a bunch of traditions that are no longer appropriate as well as business practices that are no longer in use.

551

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Expected Value of Perfect Information:

Knowing everything about a situation before making a decision. Knowing what the server’s average wage per hour is before you decide to tip.

How is that fair?

Will you please bring you tax return forms with you the next time you go out, so that servers can see your annual salary and decide if you make enough money to spend a decent amount and warrant actual service? Sounds fair, right?

It’s none of your business what the individual makes at the end of the year. You are paying for your INSTANCE of service, not feeding some communal parking meter. Your usage warrants the same service and cost (both marginal) as everyone else’s.[/quote]

Get over yourself being so dramatic.

My premise was explained. I just want to pay for my meal and not supplement a lowly paid server.

Pay your server a living wage and charge me more. JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

Get over it Ponce. It is simple. Stop being dramatic.

I tip now because it is the system.

Now I am contemplating a whole protest of “NO TIP TUESDAY” or something like that. Hey, like you say, tipping is optional. Maybe everyone should just opt out. Maybe Facebook can be useful for something after all.

For now I will go and do a GOOD JOB BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I AM PAID FOR. Just like the servers should.

Even though I don’t get a tip. How about that. Doing a good job because that is your job.

[/quote]

Says the absurdly dramatic poster with the absurdly dramatic thread topic?

“Waaaaaaah! I don’t want to CONTRIBUTE to a server’s wage because I don’t feel they deserve a pay rate that high!”

552

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Expected Value of Perfect Information:

Knowing everything about a situation before making a decision. Knowing what the server’s average wage per hour is before you decide to tip.

How is that fair?

Will you please bring you tax return forms with you the next time you go out, so that servers can see your annual salary and decide if you make enough money to spend a decent amount and warrant actual service? Sounds fair, right?

It’s none of your business what the individual makes at the end of the year. You are paying for your INSTANCE of service, not feeding some communal parking meter. Your usage warrants the same service and cost (both marginal) as everyone else’s.[/quote]

Get over yourself being so dramatic.

My premise was explained. I just want to pay for my meal and not supplement a lowly paid server.

Pay your server a living wage and charge me more. JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

Get over it Ponce. It is simple. Stop being dramatic.

I tip now because it is the system.

Now I am contemplating a whole protest of “NO TIP TUESDAY” or something like that. Hey, like you say, tipping is optional. Maybe everyone should just opt out. Maybe Facebook can be useful for something after all.

For now I will go and do a GOOD JOB BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I AM PAID FOR. Just like the servers should.

Even though I don’t get a tip. How about that. Doing a good job because that is your job.

[/quote]

Says the absurdly dramatic poster with the absurdly dramatic thread topic?

“Waaaaaaah! I don’t want to CONTRIBUTE to a server’s wage because I don’t feel they deserve a pay rate that high!”[/quote]

says the fella who obviously is ignorant of what I posted.

ignorance is curable.

I said I would pay more with no tipping. Ignorant boy.

I would pay more, which does not mean what you spasm out.

553

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Expected Value of Perfect Information:

Knowing everything about a situation before making a decision. Knowing what the server’s average wage per hour is before you decide to tip.

How is that fair?

Will you please bring you tax return forms with you the next time you go out, so that servers can see your annual salary and decide if you make enough money to spend a decent amount and warrant actual service? Sounds fair, right?

It’s none of your business what the individual makes at the end of the year. You are paying for your INSTANCE of service, not feeding some communal parking meter. Your usage warrants the same service and cost (both marginal) as everyone else’s.[/quote]

Get over yourself being so dramatic.

My premise was explained. I just want to pay for my meal and not supplement a lowly paid server.

Pay your server a living wage and charge me more. JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

Get over it Ponce. It is simple. Stop being dramatic.

I tip now because it is the system.

Now I am contemplating a whole protest of “NO TIP TUESDAY” or something like that. Hey, like you say, tipping is optional. Maybe everyone should just opt out. Maybe Facebook can be useful for something after all.

For now I will go and do a GOOD JOB BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I AM PAID FOR. Just like the servers should.

Even though I don’t get a tip. How about that. Doing a good job because that is your job.

[/quote]

Says the absurdly dramatic poster with the absurdly dramatic thread topic?

“Waaaaaaah! I don’t want to CONTRIBUTE to a server’s wage because I don’t feel they deserve a pay rate that high!”[/quote]

says the fella who obviously is ignorant of what I posted.

ignorance is curable.

I said I would pay with no tipping. Ignorant boy.

I would pay more, which does not mean what you spasm out.

[/quote]

I read what you posted. I read most of this thread, silly.

And you still come off as whiny about it, after restaurant owners AND servers have chimed in on the matter, explaining why it makes more sense. Ignorance is curable? So are reading comprehension issues :wink:

YOU may be willing to pay more but I assure you that not all people would; why would a restaurant want to lose business because a MINORITY (read: population…1? ) want to pay more for food so they don’t have to tip?

If it’s the SAME to you in terms of overall cost for the dining, why not suck it up, be ok with the current system, and let the restaurant and server get more business/pay due to more traffic (lower cost of food, versus embedding the gratuity into the food prices) ?

Seriously, answer that question and don’t throw out gradeschool insults.

It is the same to YOU in terms of money, but in one instance the restaurant would potentially suffer for appeasing whiny diners who don’t like to tip because those serving sumbitches make $38/hr (allegedly…even though I explained why your observation is 100% flawed).

Wait wait, let me guess, default response to a seriously logical, honest question:

“Well, I’m so tired of explaining myself that if you just don’t get it, then you never will!”

(translation: I don’t have a response, I never thought about it that logically!)

Right? Is that what you were going to say?

:slight_smile:

554

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Expected Value of Perfect Information:

Knowing everything about a situation before making a decision. Knowing what the server’s average wage per hour is before you decide to tip.

How is that fair?

Will you please bring you tax return forms with you the next time you go out, so that servers can see your annual salary and decide if you make enough money to spend a decent amount and warrant actual service? Sounds fair, right?

It’s none of your business what the individual makes at the end of the year. You are paying for your INSTANCE of service, not feeding some communal parking meter. Your usage warrants the same service and cost (both marginal) as everyone else’s.[/quote]

Get over yourself being so dramatic.

My premise was explained. I just want to pay for my meal and not supplement a lowly paid server.

Pay your server a living wage and charge me more. JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

Get over it Ponce. It is simple. Stop being dramatic.

I tip now because it is the system.

Now I am contemplating a whole protest of “NO TIP TUESDAY” or something like that. Hey, like you say, tipping is optional. Maybe everyone should just opt out. Maybe Facebook can be useful for something after all.

For now I will go and do a GOOD JOB BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I AM PAID FOR. Just like the servers should.

Even though I don’t get a tip. How about that. Doing a good job because that is your job.

[/quote]

Says the absurdly dramatic poster with the absurdly dramatic thread topic?

“Waaaaaaah! I don’t want to CONTRIBUTE to a server’s wage because I don’t feel they deserve a pay rate that high!”[/quote]

says the fella who obviously is ignorant of what I posted.

ignorance is curable.

I said I would pay with no tipping. Ignorant boy.

I would pay more, which does not mean what you spasm out.

[/quote]

I read what you posted. I read most of this thread, silly.

And you still come off as whiny about it, after restaurant owners AND servers have chimed in on the matter, explaining why it makes more sense. Ignorance is curable? So are reading comprehension issues :wink:

YOU may be willing to pay more but I assure you that not all people would; why would a restaurant want to lose business because a MINORITY (read: population…1? ) want to pay more for food so they don’t have to tip?

If it’s the SAME to you in terms of overall cost for the dining, why not suck it up, be ok with the current system, and let the restaurant and server get more business/pay due to more traffic (lower cost of food, versus embedding the gratuity into the food prices) ?

Seriously, answer that question and don’t throw out gradeschool insults.

It is the same to YOU in terms of money, but in one instance the restaurant would potentially suffer for appeasing whiny diners who don’t like to tip because those serving sumbitches make $38/hr (allegedly…even though I explained why your observation is 100% flawed).

Wait wait, let me guess, default response to a seriously logical, honest question:

“Well, I’m so tired of explaining myself that if you just don’t get it, then you never will!”

(translation: I don’t have a response, I never thought about it that logically!)

Right? Is that what you were going to say?

:)[/quote]

again… IGNORANT

That is what I do… I know what restaurants and bars make. Man… give it up already.

You don’t know what I do, don’t say you do.

I can tell you that the majority of servers don’t want a standard wage because they are GAMBLING THAT THEY CAN MAKE MORE.
fine… then gamble that you lose.

So… folks, don’t tip. It is not mandatory, they cannot enforce it, it is up to the employers to pay their employees.

And you have NO IDEA what that majority of people would or would not pay if there were no tipping. I kinda have an idea because we tried that .

Is your family in the restaurant business?

Ponce, smirk and belittle all you want in your posts but until you tell me that you have seen the spreadsheets for a restaurant we kinda may not be on the same playing field.

Ponce… you can PM me if you want to know what I see about actual revenue.

555

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

again… IGNORANT

I can tell you that the majority of servers don’t want a standard wage because they are GAMBLING THAT THEY CAN MAKE MORE.
fine… then gamble that you lose.
[/quote]

  1. You audit restaurants and bars at a casino, right? That is what you said you did. Yes or no?

And this line:

“Fine, gamble that you will lose…”

Tells us that you want to withhold tips OUT OF SPITE.

I’m asking, WHY? That’s ridiculous.

You are all of a sudden a socialist? Are we handing out financial aid to people based on perceived need?

  1. WHY do you care what people make IN TOTAL, PER HOUR and then take offense and decide to give them the “fuck you!” by NOT contributing? Why do you care about their SALARY which does NOT come from just YOUR money, but is a result of everyone chipping in?

Should “no tipping Tuesday” be “I’m going to cook at home Tuesday” ?

  1. YOU are the one belittling people. You called me ignorant–horseshit, I read everything you wrote and most of this thread–and called other people “stupid, lazy assholes” for ASSUMING they didn’t reach every word of this thread. Am I wrong? That’s what you called people.

Why tell people to stop with the insults when you’re hurling them, too? If you want them to stop, YOU need to stop. Nobody has incentive here to insult others, but if that’s going to be the standard of conduct, people will join in without giving it much thought. I dont have anything against you personally or anyone in this thread, but you’re acting like such a poor sport in a debate that it’s just flat out juvenile behavior.

Set the example: stop insulting others. And answer my damn questions for once. I numbered them so you don’t miss them.

xoxo

556

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

again… IGNORANT

That is what I do… I know what restaurants and bars make. Man… give it up already.

You don’t know what I do, don’t say you do.

I can tell you that the majority of servers don’t want a standard wage because they are GAMBLING THAT THEY CAN MAKE MORE.
fine… then gamble that you lose.

So… folks, don’t tip. It is not mandatory, they cannot enforce it, it is up to the employers to pay their employees.

And you have NO IDEA what that majority of people would or would not pay if there were no tipping. I kinda have an idea because we tried that .

Is your family in the restaurant business?

Ponce, smirk and belittle all you want in your posts but until you tell me that you have seen the spreadsheets for a restaurant we kinda may not be on the same playing field.

Ponce… you can PM me if you want to know what I see about actual revenue.

[/quote]

You make this out to be a server conspiracy theory!

If I go to my owner tomorrow and say “You know what? OG is right, I don’t want to gamble on tips anymore! I have here a spreadsheet of my tips and salary over the past 17 months and have found that on average I make approximately 26.72 dollars an hour. I find it unfair that the customer has to pay part of this wage. Given that, I humbly request that you stop allowing me to access tips and instead raise my wage 17.82 an hour please.”

Here is the answer.

“Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-you’re fired.”

If your answer is you could find another job then save it. I don’t have a problem with my job. You do. So I don’t need to go find something else.

So once again. Punish the owner with your lack of business, not the server with your lack of tip.

557

As for the “poor service argument”

Fine in a no-tip universe a server who works for the bottom line and slacks off because of no tips is bad. Fire them!

But consider this.

The owner is now paying his servers 18 dollars an hour instead of 3 to 8. 1 server now costs him what 3 employees once did. Sure… not problem on Saturday night, since the cash to pay is coming out of the food.

What about Tuesday afternoon?

Maybe that owner is tight for cash and knows sales will be low. Instead of having 3 servers on he gambles and has 1 because his labour cost has skyrocketed but his business on that day is slow.

A minor hockey team decides to go out for dinner after practice and 15 kids and 20 parents show up.

Good luck getting good service. That hockey team won’t come back and that server just quit.

558

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

again… IGNORANT

I can tell you that the majority of servers don’t want a standard wage because they are GAMBLING THAT THEY CAN MAKE MORE.
fine… then gamble that you lose.
[/quote]

  1. You audit restaurants and bars at a casino, right? That is what you said you did. Yes or no?

And this line:

“Fine, gamble that you will lose…”

Tells us that you want to withhold tips OUT OF SPITE.

I’m asking, WHY? That’s ridiculous.

You are all of a sudden a socialist? Are we handing out financial aid to people based on perceived need?

  1. WHY do you care what people make IN TOTAL, PER HOUR and then take offense and decide to give them the “fuck you!” by NOT contributing? Why do you care about their SALARY which does NOT come from just YOUR money, but is a result of everyone chipping in?

Should “no tipping Tuesday” be “I’m going to cook at home Tuesday” ?

  1. YOU are the one belittling people. You called me ignorant–horseshit, I read everything you wrote and most of this thread–and called other people “stupid, lazy assholes” for ASSUMING they didn’t reach every word of this thread. Am I wrong? That’s what you called people.

Why tell people to stop with the insults when you’re hurling them, too? If you want them to stop, YOU need to stop. Nobody has incentive here to insult others, but if that’s going to be the standard of conduct, people will join in without giving it much thought. I dont have anything against you personally or anyone in this thread, but you’re acting like such a poor sport in a debate that it’s just flat out juvenile behavior.

Set the example: stop insulting others. And answer my damn questions for once. I numbered them so you don’t miss them.

xoxo[/quote]\

Calling your ignorant is not an insult. It is the truth, at least in regards to the way I know the truth of wage of servers and regards to revenue for restaurants.

That is not an insult. If you are ignorant, you are ignorant.

Ponce. … why not read what I wrote. I wrote, " pay a living wage and I will pay more."

there is NO ANBIGUITY WITH THAT STATEMENT.

You don’t get it, that is fine. We don’t have to agree. I say, pay a living wage and no tipping. I have to paraphrase what you are saying is, “pay a very low wage and hope that your customers supplement your income” wage.

Tipping is optional.

Optional. Just know that. Live that, breathe that, know that. NO ONE OWES A SERVER A TIP.

just putting it out there. If everyone else decides NOT TO TIP, you are making $2.13 or so an hour BY YOUR OWN CHOICE.

by the servers choice they only are making $2.13 an hour and absolutely should not expect more.

So Ponce, enough, you cannot see what I am saying. I have consistently reiterated what your side has said. I just do not agree.

give it up. you do not make a point.

I hope all the servers that are gambling on wage will take comfort that you will be out there 365 days a year giving them 20% or more a year.

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[quote]MementoMori wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

again… IGNORANT

That is what I do… I know what restaurants and bars make. Man… give it up already.

You don’t know what I do, don’t say you do.

I can tell you that the majority of servers don’t want a standard wage because they are GAMBLING THAT THEY CAN MAKE MORE.
fine… then gamble that you lose.

So… folks, don’t tip. It is not mandatory, they cannot enforce it, it is up to the employers to pay their employees.

And you have NO IDEA what that majority of people would or would not pay if there were no tipping. I kinda have an idea because we tried that .

Is your family in the restaurant business?

Ponce, smirk and belittle all you want in your posts but until you tell me that you have seen the spreadsheets for a restaurant we kinda may not be on the same playing field.

Ponce… you can PM me if you want to know what I see about actual revenue.

[/quote]

You make this out to be a server conspiracy theory!

If I go to my owner tomorrow and say “You know what? OG is right, I don’t want to gamble on tips anymore! I have here a spreadsheet of my tips and salary over the past 17 months and have found that on average I make approximately 26.72 dollars an hour. I find it unfair that the customer has to pay part of this wage. Given that, I humbly request that you stop allowing me to access tips and instead raise my wage 17.82 an hour please.”

Here is the answer.

“Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-you’re fired.”

If your answer is you could find another job then save it. I don’t have a problem with my job. You do. So I don’t need to go find something else.

So once again. Punish the owner with your lack of business, not the server with your lack of tip.
[/quote]

Nope, I didn’t say that so … comprehension… “FAIL”.

Fella you chose a job where your income is a gamble. It has nothing to do with me. I do not owe you anything.

Take it up with your boss that pays you less than a living wage.

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I HATE TIPPING TOO!!!