Tipping - Good Idea or Bad Idea

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I was responding to your perceived complete astonishment as to why I would reference Scotland when the facts show that you mentioned it first. You used it as an example so you could segue into the “most Americans are ignorant schmucks and Europeans are the models of a sophisticated and intelligent society” blather.

[/quote]

I wasn’t saying that most Americans are ignorant schmucks…just the ones that posted in this thread with seemingly no clue that there exists an entire world outside of Ohio that is somehow able to carry on a thriving restaurant industry despite not tipping!!!

That seemed to cause butthurt…

You haven’t addressed anything pertaining to the actual topic of this thread in quite a while, bro…[/quote]

Oh yeah, not only is the non-North America restaurant industry in good shape, but the prices are very comparable to American prices in local currency…which was the only reason I mentioned Scotland in the first place…I could have picked a great number of countries to support my example…

The “straws” I am grasping at are really “facts”…that mathz dont lie bro…

But you don’t seem to understand something, VTBalla…

THIS IS NOT FINANCIAL AID. It is not up to YOU to determine what is “adequate” salary for a server. That is absurd.

We don’t pay based on what we think is fair for the profession to average per hour:

“Oh, making over $15/hr? Well then, fuck off, sir!”

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

…You haven’t addressed anything pertaining to the actual topic of this thread in quite a while, bro…[/quote]

I don’t need to. You are the one late to the party, Alice, my bro.[/quote]

Yeah, my internet has been down…if only they worked for tips he probably would have come and fixed it sooner…

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
But you don’t seem to understand something, VTBalla…

THIS IS NOT FINANCIAL AID. It is not up to YOU to determine what is “adequate” salary for a server. That is absurd.

We don’t pay based on what we think is fair for the profession to average per hour:

“Oh, making over $15/hr? Well then, fuck off, sir!”[/quote]

Hold on a minute, I’m expected to pay part of this server’s salary, yet I forego all decisions on determining what is adequate???

So people have the right to tell me what is adequate and I can’t do it myself???

hrmmm…that seems like a complicated system…why don’t the restaurant owners just decide for themselves what is an adequate salary, and they pay out of their profits, just like in every other industry in America?

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

Hold on a minute, I’m expected to pay part of this server’s salary, yet I forego all decisions on determining what is adequate???..[/quote]

Alice, Alice, Alice, this is what being late to the party AND not reading the entire thread does to you and your Scottish rabbit hole.

You’re not expected to pay part of the server’s salary. You are expected to participate, or not as the case may be, in rewarding the server above and beyond the server’s salary…on a strictly voluntary basis on your part. It’s such a delightfully sublime protocol because you the customer have so much choice, i.e., freedom. Isn’t freedom grand?[/quote]

I’m getting through the thread, slowly but surely!! And I don’t want to be your friend cause I’m afraid you’ll go and bang all my wimenz…so can’t we just be e-bros for a while???

I don’t want that freedom!!! I hate navigating the local customs and the whims of the local people…

Some states pay more than $2.13 an hour (New York), do I adjust my tip accordingly taking into consideration the higher food costs as a result of them being paid higher salaries, or do I just pay the same percentage as I normally would, effectively doubling the server’s profits from my patronage?

Should I have to do market research ahead of my travels to determine if 20% is adequate, or just expected? I don’t want to enable some asshole who would scoff at my 20% and talk about me behind my back as a cheapskate!!!

If 10% used to be an acceptable tip, and now it is 20%, at what point will it be 30%? (I love slippery slope arguments!!!)

Do I tip the bellhop $1 or $2 per bag, plus a base tip for smiling at me?

Should I really have to take out some singles and hand them to a guy for cleaning my hands off after I’m done touching my johnson?

I’m an engineer by trade, and I prefer for things to be streamlined, repeatable, sensical, and solvable…I think society operates most efficiently when these variables are minimized…tipping shatters the very foundations of this model!!!

[quote]DJHT wrote:
^ AC we tried this since page one, you are not going to win this one. Push, Saveski and I all used these same arguments. Who you taking for the super bowl? I got Packers by 4.[/quote]

I’m taking the Packers…

Sometime its good to be late to the party!

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

You sound like a pretty successful guy mate, you might want to try traveling. It’s fun and you do learn a lot from such experiences.
[/quote]

BTW, don’t take this as antagonistic at all but when you think you have put at least 10% as many miles on your personal odometer (ground, land, sea combined) call me and we’ll compare notes. If you can come close to having been from central Alaska to the Caribbean, and from Kaui and Mexico to Ottawa, and practically everywhere in between, I will buy you a round trip airline ticket to Scotland.[/quote]

haha, 10% huh? You might owe me that ticket just from my travels back and forth to Tokyo every year for awhile now. But it sounds like you’ve been around quite a bit. I just commented BECAUSE you said you’ve traveled so extensively but never left the northern hemisphere. And really, I’m just joking around. That said, I’ve never been to Scotland…maybe I’ll take you up on that ticket and we’ll have some scotch whiskey there together.

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]majik wrote:
Easy there kids.

There being 17 pages of this and I am too damn lazy to go through it all, has anyone yet mentioned what TIPS stands for? [/quote]

To Insure Proper Service!

I thought someone wrote that, but if not, I just did.

[/quote]

I’m surprised this didn’t get brought up till Page 15 or so, because it is always used as a loose argument to somehow explain tips. And I’m always laughing out loud when I read it.

TIPS is not an acronym. Ya know how I know this? Because “insure” does not mean “1. to secure or guarantee, 2. to make sure or certain”. The word you would be looking for would be ENSURE…buy a dictionary…

They’re not called TEPS…

And with that I am finally caught up on the thread…

I don’t know how you fuckers post on GAL all the time…this thread has consumed the better part of my non-working day!!! I’m exhausted…

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]MementoMori wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]MementoMori wrote:

My meaning is that regardless of how it happens: the average servers wage is around 25-30 dollars an hour. Just because there is some place that makes way less and there is unemployment doesn’t mean that server doesn’t deserve their money.

That logical applies no more to a server who just so happens to reserve tips than it does to you.

As for my making of buck. On a saturday night I make maybe 38 per hour. But I put in alot of work while the bar is closed to make that possible so the average is closer to 25.

What a person makes though is irrelevant to how much they helped you. I tip because my bartender/server/barber did me a long personal service, one for which their salary does NOT reward them.
[/quote]

This is so stupid I don’t even know where to begin…you really think the average server in america makes 30 fucking dollars an hour?? LMFAO…you live in a fucking fantasy land…I don’t know the stats (but that makes two of us) but there is no way in hell the average server makes anywhere close to that…that is just funny

You keep arguing that these professions are not being REWARDED with their base salary…NO SHIT!!! that is exactly what October Girl has been saying from the get go but you are too dumb to realize it…do you not understand what LIVING WAGE means? Or can you just not comprehend what she is saying when she says she wouldn’t mind them making it??? holy fuck man…[/quote]

I’ve worked in 3 restaurants and 4 night clubs. I know how much we make. I’m not a server I’m a barback and I average almost 30 dollars an hour. This has been discussed over and over. Keep reading, you’ll get there.

I’m well aware what her base point is. My base point is I’m not King Shit and neither are you. I know what a server makes and think it’s not enough. Rather than bitching about it online though, I tip. Big fucking deal. [/quote]

Your sample size is inadequate…I conducted my own double blind placebo study…errr…did a bit of quick research on the internet at a trusted salary site and came up with the following info for food servers ($21,202):

And for bartenders ($17,121):

I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume that barbacks do not make more than their bartending counterparts…

I remember in my food serving days I would work about 25-30 hour weeks, on average ($13/hr food serving, $11/hr bartender)…unless the average bartender in America is only working about 11 hours a week, that $30/hr figure is looking pretty generous…

I think $11-$13/hr sounds about adequate compensation given the education and skill level required…there are fantastic servers out there, but lets not kid ourselves here…

I once had a professor that told us that if you were gonna be good at one thing, be good at math…math is how you can tell when they’re lying to you…

[/quote]

You made 2 inappropriate assumptions. 1 That 30 dollars an hour is based on a 40 hour work week and 2 that barbacks make less than bartenders (at least at my bar).

My job pays approximately 32000 dollars a year. I make about 600-700 dollars a week working 3 and a half to 5 shifts a week depending how often the bar is open.

AGAIN this has been discussed. Some days I make 8.90 an hour and some days I make over 40 an hour.

The average bartender at my bar does only work 11 hours a week. I work 2 and a half to 3 times more. So in terms of annual income, I make more than bartenders.

All irrelevant and discussed over and over.

AGAIN keeping in mind, as previously stated, that I am fortunate enough to have utmost seniority at a very very busy nightclub. I also have much more responsibility than your standard barback.

Regardless, you said you tip well. Excellent. I’m glad you do.

Okay, does no one understand the costs in running a restaurant? Labor is already the largest part of the budget and that’s at $3.10 (I think is the current wage) an hour BEFORE tips. Servers tip out bussers, bartenders, cooks, expediters, etc. And don’t forget that some places take 10% of all credit card tips (for the cost of accepting credit cards) so the server is already getting gypped on tips.

There is no way a restaurant or bar could survive and make a profit if it had to pay a “living” wage without tips. The meal prices would skyrocket. And I’m sorry, but I don’t tip the bathroom person unless I ask them for something and I think it’s RIDICULOUS to have to PAY to use public bathrooms in Europe. It costs 1 pound to use the bathroom at Harrod’s and other places. WTF?

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Okay, does no one understand the costs in running a restaurant? Labor is already the largest part of the budget and that’s at $3.10 (I think is the current wage) an hour BEFORE tips. Servers tip out bussers, bartenders, cooks, expediters, etc. And don’t forget that some places take 10% of all credit card tips (for the cost of accepting credit cards) so the server is already getting gypped on tips.

There is no way a restaurant or bar could survive and make a profit if it had to pay a “living” wage without tips. The meal prices would skyrocket. [/quote]

Define “skyrocket”…you honestly think the price of meals would increase by more than the 20% (or whatever expected tips are)? How would you come to that conclusion???

I submit that I would end up paying LESS overall for my restaurant experience because I would no longer be making up for those deadbeats that do not tip…if an average tip is 10-15%, then my 20% or more “surcharge” on top of my bill would be reduced in half…

And again, I have addressed your phantom skyrocketing prices point in this thread already…there is already a society in which your assumption is disproven…its called THE REST OF THE WORLD…I pay comparable prices in Britain (in pounds) to what I would pay in America (in dollars) for the same restaurant experience (I used TGIFridays and a pub as two examples)…and hell, those British prices are with a nationwide 22% Value Added Tax…so somehow the prices are actually LOWER in these crazy socialist countries…weird how that works…

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]majik wrote:
Easy there kids.

There being 17 pages of this and I am too damn lazy to go through it all, has anyone yet mentioned what TIPS stands for? [/quote]

To Insure Proper Service!

I thought someone wrote that, but if not, I just did.

[/quote]

I’m surprised this didn’t get brought up till Page 15 or so, because it is always used as a loose argument to somehow explain tips. And I’m always laughing out loud when I read it.

TIPS is not an acronym. Ya know how I know this? Because “insure” does not mean “1. to secure or guarantee, 2. to make sure or certain”. The word you would be looking for would be ENSURE…buy a dictionary…

They’re not called TEPS…

[/quote]

We–the educated among us, anyway–KNOW that “TIPS” is not a true acronym; you can thank colloquial speech for the pseudo-definition and it wouldn’t be the first time in the history of language that this has happened.

Also, “insure” and “ensure” ARE different, however, due to colloquial usage, many style guides will actually “let it slide” so to speak and accept the mistaken usage as interchangeable with the true definition. That’s also not uncommon for colloquial usage to strong arm the grammar nazis and language authorities over time. Go ahead, look it up.

You’re not an editor or English professor, I wouldn’t expect you to know exceptions and nuances like that. That’s not a slam, just the truth.

Lesson: you can’t take everything literally without observing history, usage, and something like context (in some cases). Literal definitions have a nasty side effect of tunnel vision.

Just as the guy in the betting thread did some “quick math” and figured that 2.91 miles per hour was doable–implying an indefinite pace–but forgot that such an equation can’t speak to the conditioning of the person or the marginal fatigue vs accumulated fatigue.