Tipping - Good Idea or Bad Idea

Off Topic
401

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Hallowed wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Hallowed wrote:
people who do not tip are assholes.[/quote]

Fuck you running if you want to be a lazy asshole and not read the thread.

Blessed be! =)[/quote]

I did read your thread honey.
and even had I chosen not to… well shoot that’s my perogative isn’t it?

You’ve always been bizarrely aggressively bitchy towards me.

The first time you quoted me on TNation you reprimanded me for" fixing" a quote. You were extremely rude and condescending about it.

In the ask anything thread I’m pretty sure you called me a retard.

And now you’re blessing me with" fuck yourself" and" lazy asshole"

What exactly is your problem with me OG?
I haven’t noticed these bitch maneuvers directed at anyone else.

For all I know, maybe you ARE a cunt to other people too. Either way, third times a charm so i’ll suggest that perhaps you are the one that needs a good fucking. From yourself or elsewhere your disposition could use some improvement.

Dear.

[/quote]

You aren’t that special. Apparently I am as you have memorized my every post. I’m okay with my disposition. Works for me.

It is good to be king.

[/quote]

I’m not that special? Okay so you ARE a bitch on the regular. Not directed at me in particular. Got it.

You are very special to me OG. Very.

402

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Hallowed wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Hallowed wrote:
people who do not tip are assholes.[/quote]

Fuck you running if you want to be a lazy asshole and not read the thread.

Blessed be! =)[/quote]

I did read your thread honey.
and even had I chosen not to… well shoot that’s my perogative isn’t it?

You’ve always been bizarrely aggressively bitchy towards me.

The first time you quoted me on TNation you reprimanded me for" fixing" a quote. You were extremely rude and condescending about it.

In the ask anything thread I’m pretty sure you called me a retard.

And now you’re blessing me with" fuck yourself" and" lazy asshole"

What exactly is your problem with me OG?
I haven’t noticed these bitch maneuvers directed at anyone else.

For all I know, maybe you ARE a cunt to other people too. Either way, third times a charm so i’ll suggest that perhaps you are the one that needs a good fucking. From yourself or elsewhere your disposition could use some improvement.

Dear.

[/quote]

You aren’t that special. Apparently I am as you have memorized my every post. I’m okay with my disposition. Works for me.

It is good to be king.

[/quote]

I’m not that special? Okay so you ARE a bitch on the regular. Not directed at me in particular. Got it.

You are very special to me OG. Very.

403

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]JackDanials wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
I hate tipping. I do not get tipped at my job and I do service other people. [/quote]

And by service you mean???[/quote]

Seriously?

do you think waiters and waitresses are sucking dick?

[/quote]

That might get there pay up to 40 an hour.[/quote]

Well knock out my teeth and let me buy knee pads.

DJHT, I very much respect that you have been a business owner. But, I have seen some sides as an idependent contractor that maybe you have not.

This thread was to question why, and I gotta say for me, the reasons why don’t really hold why beyond tradition. I am also savvy enough to know that I will not change this ingrained system.

but… glad to see some light on it.
[/quote]

Wow try to lighten the mood and people still get all pissed off. Push has stated already in this thread that he is not getting emotional about this. I will state the same, the emotional level some have portrayed in this thread is a little disturbing.

Of all the social injustices and problems in our society today and people are pissed off about tipping. Damn you want to see real tipping go to a strip club.

404

It’s annoying when these posts lag

405

Easy there kids.

There being 17 pages of this and I am too damn lazy to go through it all, has anyone yet mentioned what TIPS stands for?

406

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:

[quote]Otep wrote:
I would be happier with the situation if the owners and managers of restaurants were responsible for paying the full wage of their employees.

Alternatively, I think it’d be cool if I could engage in financial blackmail with the parents of my students, for example, giving the students inaccurate or badly mangled tutelage if their parents didn’t tip me enough to educate the youngsters properly.[/quote]

I checked out of this thread long ago - but had to comment here.

You’re a teacher? I hope you’re being sarcastic but if not then you’re just a douchebag.

Last time I checked teachers were salaried and not tipped.

I’ve chimed in to this discussion as the owner of a large 250-seat restaurant and my facts just seem to have fallen on deaf ears. Just makes me realize how stupid people are in defending their own beliefs CONTRARY TO THE FACTS AND REALITY.

Don’t listen to me though - I’ve only got 60 employees and 25 servers on staff and deal with this shit every minute of every day.

You college kids are WAY smarter than me.

[/quote]

Wait, so you’re okay with tipping wait-staff, bartenders, barbers, taxi-cab drivers, the guy who hands out towels in the restroom, bussers, doormen, floormen, janitors, salesmen, computer repair technicians, personal trainers, impersonal trainers, and the guy that clips your movie tickets in the theater, but balk at tipping teachers?

Woah. What gives?

I mean, if all the above professions can expect a tip in addition to what their miserly employer is paying them, why not teachers? Don’t you expect good service from your child’s teacher? How are we to know which students merit the most of our time and energy if we don’t regularly receive tips from customers that value our services?[/quote]

Teaching is a fine example of people being too comfortable in their jobs and not feeling like they have to hustle. If they worked for tips perhaps the outcome would be better.

[/quote]

No. It would just cause teachers to cheat for their students on big tests. It happened in the Chicago School System. The teachers who had kids that did well would receive pay raises, the ones who had kids that performed poorly would receive pay cuts and sometimes even lose their jobs.

Economist Steven Levitt discovered it and wrote about it in his book Freakonomics

[/quote]

So many flaws with the Chicago experiment it is not worth evaluation.

[/quote]

Proof? Never heard this before.[/quote]

Proof of what? The corruption and problems in the school system? The sabotage of the unions to the study? The poor design of the study? Read the study, not just Freakanomics, it is all there.

I respect Levitt greatly, even he is aware of the flaws.

407

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Big Banana what is your educational background?[/quote]

We have the best economic minds running our system right into the ground.[/quote]

You can’t honestly believe this.

Not even going to bother.[/quote]

You honestly believe the death spiral of debt is a good working model?

40% of US government spending is borrowed. A similar percentage (don’t have the figure) of tax revenue is spent paying the interest alone.

I’ll bet the Romans thought it would work forever too…

408

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:

[quote]Otep wrote:
I would be happier with the situation if the owners and managers of restaurants were responsible for paying the full wage of their employees.

Alternatively, I think it’d be cool if I could engage in financial blackmail with the parents of my students, for example, giving the students inaccurate or badly mangled tutelage if their parents didn’t tip me enough to educate the youngsters properly.[/quote]

I checked out of this thread long ago - but had to comment here.

You’re a teacher? I hope you’re being sarcastic but if not then you’re just a douchebag.

Last time I checked teachers were salaried and not tipped.

I’ve chimed in to this discussion as the owner of a large 250-seat restaurant and my facts just seem to have fallen on deaf ears. Just makes me realize how stupid people are in defending their own beliefs CONTRARY TO THE FACTS AND REALITY.

Don’t listen to me though - I’ve only got 60 employees and 25 servers on staff and deal with this shit every minute of every day.

You college kids are WAY smarter than me.

[/quote]

Wait, so you’re okay with tipping wait-staff, bartenders, barbers, taxi-cab drivers, the guy who hands out towels in the restroom, bussers, doormen, floormen, janitors, salesmen, computer repair technicians, personal trainers, impersonal trainers, and the guy that clips your movie tickets in the theater, but balk at tipping teachers?

Woah. What gives?

I mean, if all the above professions can expect a tip in addition to what their miserly employer is paying them, why not teachers? Don’t you expect good service from your child’s teacher? How are we to know which students merit the most of our time and energy if we don’t regularly receive tips from customers that value our services?[/quote]

Teaching is a fine example of people being too comfortable in their jobs and not feeling like they have to hustle. If they worked for tips perhaps the outcome would be better.

[/quote]

No. It would just cause teachers to cheat for their students on big tests. It happened in the Chicago School System. The teachers who had kids that did well would receive pay raises, the ones who had kids that performed poorly would receive pay cuts and sometimes even lose their jobs.

Economist Steven Levitt discovered it and wrote about it in his book Freakonomics

[/quote]

So many flaws with the Chicago experiment it is not worth evaluation.

[/quote]

Proof? Never heard this before.[/quote]

Proof of what? The corruption and problems in the school system? The sabotage of the unions to the study? The poor design of the study? Read the study, not just Freakanomics, it is all there.

I respect Levitt greatly, even he is aware of the flaws. [/quote]

I haven’t read the study, but most people would disagree with you that its “not worth evaluation” - the findings of Levitt have been widely accepted as being true.

409

[quote]therajraj wrote:

I haven’t read the study, but most people would disagree with you that its “not worth evaluation” - the findings of Levitt have been widely accepted as being true.

[/quote]

No they haven’t, they are merely popular because he wrote an intersting book. There is much debate and dissection of his work.

And yes, I have a habit of too quickly dismissing poorly done studies, especially in this type of forum. I am sure there is some good in there but overall it was a poor study.

410

[quote]majik wrote:
Easy there kids.

There being 17 pages of this and I am too damn lazy to go through it all, has anyone yet mentioned what TIPS stands for? [/quote]

To Insure Proper Service!

I thought someone wrote that, but if not, I just did.

OG,

Enough with the “stupid assholes” comments; you posted a topic that you knew would polarize people and it makes you upset? You’re way too riled up over this shit.

And if you say you wouldn’t mind paying the same gratuity “built into” the price of food, then I have to ask: Why does it make a difference how that money comes out of your pocket? You’re still paying for it. Is it that you feel guilty for NOT tipping, and that built in guilt trip upsets you?

My mom and sister went to Europe a few years back. They were either in France or Germany and went to a restaurant for lunch. They said the server lagged for 40 fucking minutes, got the orders wrong, and never checked back. They wanted to not leave him a tip so he gets the point, but then remembered that, in Europe, people don’t usually tip the server; the servers don’t rely on tips.

Hence, their server had no incentive to treat them well.

Many sales people are paid a base salary plus commission. If you think they had a great single month, and that one month was due to the annual rush for a certain product/service, you better believe their base salary is BARELY enough (in many cases, not all) to put food on the table/support their lifestyle. That’s why sales people have to hustle so much.

411

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

…
My mom and sister went to Europe a few years back. They were either in France or Germany and went to a restaurant for lunch. They said the server lagged for 40 fucking minutes, got the orders wrong, and never checked back. They wanted to not leave him a tip so he gets the point, but then remembered that, in Europe, people don’t usually tip the server; the servers don’t rely on tips.

…[/quote]

This has been my experience. Not every time but quite often. Service in the US and other places they work for tips is way better.

412

[quote] AMIRIGHT wrote:
Because tipping a teacher gives them a bias… basically thats the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard in my life… even if you aren’t serious. A teacher is supposed to carry themselves with dignity and class… your goal is to shape the future… you are the people that control what happens generation after generation.

A teacher expecting a tip is a person that doesn’t deserve to be a teacher… something that would so obviously create a bias has no place in the profession. If you can’t see that then I fear for the children in your classes.

Also if some of you people can’t grasp the difference between a certain profession/service… then I stand by what I said earlier… and no longer understand the other “side” [/quote]

Here we have Amiright suggesting that tipping in the education profession would give them a bias… which would be inappropriate, because they are suppose to have ‘dignity and class’… and because our goal is to ‘shape the future’.

[quote] Big Banana wrote:
If teachers weren’t so overpaid and overpensioned for their part time babysitting jobs and showed real interest in the students perhaps parents would tip them.

Teaching is a fine example of people being too comfortable in their jobs and not feeling like they have to hustle. If they worked for tips perhaps the outcome would be better [/quote]

Here we have Big Banana suggesting that we are overpaid, and that our job is not that important at all (babysitting, I think he refers to it as). He suggests if we worked for tips our jobs would be done better.

Its interesting to note you share similar views on tipping for waiters, but different views on tipping for teachers. I’m sure you’re both intelligent people; doubtless, we can discuss the broader context of tipping in service industries without denigrating either I or my current profession.

Amiright, I don’t ‘shape the future’. Neither I nor parents want me to have that that responsibility. I teach math. I do this for money. If waiters can prioritize their work-schedules based on maximizing their paycheck (servicing larger tables, wealthier clients, working largely for tips) why can’t I? The ‘dignity and class’ argument is poor, because there are many waiters that conduct themselves with dignity and class, and they manage to work for tips. I agree that if parents tip teachers, teachers will be biased to help those students. I don’t see whats morally wrong with this, though. After all, those that don’t tip are ‘small dicked, no tipping scumbags’.

Banana… I get the feeling you don’t like education, due to your apparent dislike of teachers and engineer pay. Cool. I appreciate your consistency.

413

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

…
My mom and sister went to Europe a few years back. They were either in France or Germany and went to a restaurant for lunch. They said the server lagged for 40 fucking minutes, got the orders wrong, and never checked back. They wanted to not leave him a tip so he gets the point, but then remembered that, in Europe, people don’t usually tip the server; the servers don’t rely on tips.

…[/quote]

This has been my experience. Not every time but quite often. Service in the US and other places they work for tips is way better.[/quote]

I got great service in the far east, where the waiters don’t work for tips. Maybe Europeans are just slothful, indolent creatures?

415

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

No, actually I do the 20% standard thing. Nice assumption though. I’m also pretty laid back when it comes to the standard of service too. I understand that when th place is jumping and there are parties of 12 getting their colostomy bags in a bunch over the taste of water that the orders may take a little time.

If the service is actually bad enough to not tip, I just skip the unpleasantries and go straight to the manager. That way there is no doubt as to whether or not I’m a cheapskate or unhappy, or what ever else may be bothering someone.

I strongly believe in weeding out the weak quickly. As a manager or owner, you probably don’t like or tolerate sandbags who bring down the morale and up the workload on the rest of your crew either.

Just doing my part.
[/quote]

I take back calling you a dick! Good for you. Yes, in some places the servers can really make some good money. Of course, you have to consider those Monday afternoons when the place is dead and they make nothing. (luckily our place has a solid “after-lunch” or “rotation"crowd”)

And PonceDeLeon, Big Banana and Memento Mori and Push - I agree with everything you’ve posted. I have to since I’m an objectivist/libertarian.

Bottom line is the industry does tipping because IT WORKS.

416

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
We have the best economic minds running our system right into the ground.[/quote]

10000% CORRECT. Wait till the shit hits the fan.

Just keep printing that money - will solve all our problems.

417

[quote]Otep wrote:

I got great service in the far east, where the waiters don’t work for tips. Maybe Europeans are just slothful, indolent creatures?[/quote]

Or perhaps because HOSPITALITY IS VIEWED DIFFERENTLY IN THOSE CULTURES?

No, no. It couldn’t POSSIBLY be that! :slight_smile:

Dude, my Spanish friend, whom I adore and is an incredible woman, once went to Cairo for a short vacation. The cab driver offered her his last stick of gum. She was OFFENDED and found it “weird.”

I told her that in most Middle Eastern countries, the idea is that ANYONE can be a good host (being attentive, sacrificing your food/amenities so your guest can be comfortable) and that doesn’t require money, so the idea that you were a BAD host is pretty damning to your and your family’s reputation. At a table, your guest eats/servers himself/herself FIRST in case they want a certain cut of meat or a big portion. You don’t complain; that’s how it’s always been.

But she didn’t care. She thought it was weird that a stranger would offer her GUM. Warped.

418

I’m gonna go “free market” on ALL your asses! LOL Tipping is what makes America great.

It embodies the entrepreneurial spirit that this country was founded on. Choosing a service profession (waiter/bartender/etc…) is a RISK. Why? Because the wage is SHIT. YOUR efforts are directly responsible for what you earn. If you can’t cut it, you quit because no one will tip you. If you give outstanding service, you can retire early. IT’S UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL.

People dine out/go out for drinks because they want a POSITIVE EXPERIENCE! Not because they want to pay 5 x the cost of what ever they are eating! A server that can provide a positive experience, a good environment, ambiance and has that certain “je ne sais quoi” is worth their weight in GOLD if I’m trying to seal a deal with a client (or trying to charm the pants off a supermodel). Whoever made the “all they do is bring me my food” comment is certainly missing out on the finer things in life if they can’t recognize the value of good service. If all you want is someone to bring you your food and have the most efficient business transaction with the owner as possible, go to fucking McDonald’s. You’ll have EXACTLY what you want. A restaurant owner isn’t JUST selling food, they are selling AN EXPERIENCE.

A good server can make a HUGE difference in the outcome of a meal. They’ll have the gift for gab when appropriate and if it isn’t appropriate, they’ll be almost INVISIBLE and you won’t have to worry about them interrupting anything important. They’ll KNOW this with out you having to explain it to them.

In my business, I entertain clients fairly often. I take my top 20 “referral sources” out quarterly for a meal/party that I often spend several thousand dollars on. The business they bring to me is worth MANY times that, so I reward it. I have three places where I have the relationships established and I TRUST that the evening will be seamless. I don’t take them any where else. I have TIPPED the servers/bartender team there more than $800 for doing such a good job… And they are worth EVERY PENNY. No client has EVER has to ask for a drink, or a refill, or has to look for another napkin or utensil because they dropped it, or has to repeat their order, or any of a number of things they go above and beyond for. As a host, their service is DIRECT reflection on ME. I spare no expense to guard that reputation. And THAT’S how you cement referral relationships.

I can’t imagine how much business I would have lost if I “half assed” it and took them to a place with bad service, or if I didn’t reward the staff to go that extra mile. People remember that shit.

There are COUNTLESS examples I could give about what servers and bartenders do OTHER than just bring me food or pour me a Tanqueray and Tonic (which I don’t have to even ASK for)…

The smart service professional KNOWS this and does an outstanding job and is rewarded - THAT’S why they take the risk, because they believe in themselves and are savvy enough to seize the opportunity. With the good comes the bad, and they know this. Sometimes they’ll get a cheap bastard. The servers I know and am friends with would NEVER stoop to tainting that miserable person’s food, though. They respect themselves too much for that. People that fear people fucking with their food need to reconsider how they view other people (or chose their venue more wisely).

But make no mistake about it: When you go to a restaurant in America, you are entering an unwritten social contract to TIP the person serving you. If you fail to tip (I’ll even go as far as to say if you start breaking out the cell phone calculator to get 15% down to the penny) then you are a cheap bastard. If you don’t like it, MOVE TO FUCKING EUROPE OR STAY HOME.

Cheap bastard challenge: Choose a restaurant that is nice. Go there three times in a row on the same night of the week and tip 20%. See if you don’t have better service and if the extra FIVE BUCKS broke your wallet.

419

^ AC we tried this since page one, you are not going to win this one. Push, Saveski and I all used these same arguments. Who you taking for the super bowl? I got Packers by 4.

420

[quote]DJHT wrote:
^ AC we tried this since page one, you are not going to win this one. Push, Saveski and I all used these same arguments. Who you taking for the super bowl? I got Packers by 4.[/quote]

I’m pulling for the Packers too - FUCK the Steelers! LOL