[quote]pushharder wrote:
I hadn’t gathered that from your posts.
What I had gathered, and not necessarily from you, is that restaurateurs should be forced to pay their waitstaff a “decent” or “livable” or “reasonable” wage and tipping should should become anachronistic. Well, my friend, force can come from two sources - the market and the government.
If you are all for the market being the determinant then you are alright in my book.
However, if you are so passionate and impatient about your position that you feel you must scurry over to the largest wielder of force on the planet next to God, i.e., the government, and nag it to help accomplish your “noble” goal then let the contempt of Sir Push Winchester Harder drip down into your jock strap and make you itch like a motherfucker.
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For one reason or another, I think you have definitely misunderstood most of my posts. I thought your first question towards me was actually rhetoric, as in no way would I suggest someone be forced to pay a higher wage. What I did say is it is the owners responsibility to make sure his employees are properly compensated, not the customers. This most definitely should be determined by market factors, unless of course the employer is literally cheating his employees out his money. I’m ok with some government intervention in that case. (Read: I’m not necessarily opposed to it, but am not sure even in this case it is the best way)
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I’ve not left tips before and no one has ever called me cheapskate. What’s been your experience? Does another customer or waitress literally chase you out into the restaurant parking lot screaming “You cheapskate sumbitch, who do you think you are” while you fumble for your car keys in a desperate attempt to make a getaway?[/quote]
I was referring more as in this thread, or if the subject of tipping actually comes up in real life. I know I’ve had this discussion before in person, and suspect many others have as well.
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That is precisely how the market works.
How can you be “lured?” Are you that malleable and subject to pressure that you cave and do something you absolutely don’t want to do?[/quote]
I wasn’t referring necessarily to myself. I can walk out and not look twice, yet it does bother me that the waiter’s anger is going to be directed at myself, instead of the one that actually writes his checks. Furthermore, as I rarely dine alone, I frequently leave a tip only as a way to not affect the opinion of those around me, who is usually a customer, as the cost of losing any respect there could easily outweigh the cost of the tip. Or my wife, who agrees with me, but will freely admit to tipping because “that is what you are supposed to do.” It’s not really worth the argument in that case 
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How can this be that you leave no tip when you just stated “society has been lured into paying increasingly higher tips all in the name of social norms?” Or are you saying you are not like the rest of society? You’re smarter than the rest of society? You haven’t been duped like the rest of society?[/quote]
Misunderstanding again. Let me rephrase: "Hypothetically, 99% of the time I can go to a restaurant and leave no tip and receive the exact same service and goods.
Also, I am definitely not like the rest of society. I’ll let you answer the other two questions.
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Well, buck the tide and continue to exercise your God-given freedom not to tip then. Just don’t go get Uncle Sam and/or Aunt Topeka to beat proprietors into submission.[/quote]
Again, you’ve falsely classified me. Not blaming you, maybe I wasn’t clear, but this certainly is not what I have been saying.
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And society and the market have no obligation to adhere to your philosophy either.
The market can look down on you all it wants just as you can look down on the market. Sheesh, how sensitive are you? Grow a fuckin rhino hide if that’s what it takes, dude.[/quote]
Good lord, where are you trying to go with this? Now I’m sensitive for pointing out an illogical custom? I couldn’t care less what I get called, all I’m asking for is some sound reasoning. If you want to call some one a cheapskate, make sure you know why you are calling them a cheapskate and that your anger is properly directed.
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But that’s exactly what you’re doing when you “don’t buy into (what you perceive to be) a nonsensical custom” - you’re forcing a market change. If enough folks feel like you do the change will happen. Let laissez-faire do its thing and everything will work out just fine.[/quote]
Laissez-faire doesn’t necessarily lead to the best way of doing things. After all, we are only talking a few dollars at a time, and if you eliminate tipping the net result for the average consumer is likely to be pretty nil. Not really enough to trigger mass change, although I do think many would welcome more restaurants that don’t accept tips. I’d just like to see a logical argument as to why we should tip for receiving run of the mill service. None of the ones set forth carry a thread of truth. $70 for a $20 meal? Restaurants have more costs than other industries? Waiters work hard and deserve it? It provides an incentive to do your job properly? Seriously, is this the best that’s out there? The fact that so many in this thread fail to see how none of these arguments make any sense economically is what truly is the most bothersome.