No, there is no such thing as consequence-free sex. Every action has consequences, unintended or otherwise. Ever heard of the law of unintended consequences? What if this hypothetical French girl had STDs, or got pregnant? Suppose she married a guy who wasn’t as good a lover as you, was dissatisfied, and started having affairs, resulting in a divorce? Suppose she fell in love with you, became distraught at not hearing from you, and killed herself? There are all sorts of possible consequences, physical, emotional, and psychological, of having sex with her. You’re focusing on the short term, busting a nut, and not thinking at all of the long term. This type of shortsighted thinking is all too common in our society today. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.
Here’s something I would just like to throw out there. Approximately 50%-60% of marriages end in divorce. Let’s say out of the remaining 40%-50%, one third to one half of those marriages are unhappy or maintained for the sake of the children. Of the remaining successful marriages, I wonder how many of those exist in a traditional sexual context. That is, marriages that don’t open up to new sexual ideas, such as experimenting with different partners or couples. I’m not against monogamy or traditional marriage arrangements in any way. It just seems that the overwhelming majority of the population is incapable of existing happily in these traditional unions. I know several couples who participate in “the lifestyle” and others who have open relationships. Most of them are extremely deep and comitted relationships. They don’t typically spend each weekend fucking themselves silly with strangers. They usually hook up with other couples or people once every couple of months. It’s a little sexual adventure they look forward to. These relationships are not for everyone, they are only for those who can deal with that advanced level openness and honesty. To exist in this type of relationship you need a higher degree of trust between you. Not many men can deal with the thought that their woman thinks about fucking someone else. Guess what, she does. Just like you think about gettin’ on the cute little waitress at the local road house. No it doesn’t mean you should both act on it, it means should be able to be truthful about your desires with your mate. My point is; live and let live. If you are one of the people who are truly happy in a monogamous, traditional marriage; good on ya. Just don’t think that your lifestyle is the only correct lifestyle because you can’t understand or comprehend an alternative one. There are many roads to a fufilling relationship.
Terminator: Never did I say your opinion was invalid, only that as you go on in life you will actually have EXPERIENCE to draw from instead of hypothesis. And I did not elaborate on my views of marriage because “I could go way into the entire marriage phenomonon but that should really be it’s own thread.” Duh. Why is it that when people haven’t an point of their own they attempt to misquote another so there is something about which to complain? How can you have a semi-intelligent conversation with folks that are intent on doing this? Geesh…ever wonder if anything is worth discussing anymore?
Paul-Martin: Thank you for your well written post. There is much to discuss regarding the origin and practice as well as the ideology behind marriage. However, since that is a rather intensive subject and “I could go way into the entire marriage phenomonon but that should really be it’s own thread. Yes, I understand my views are rather far outside the “norm” but I don’t give a shit. No one has to live with my views and opinions but me - and I am perfectly happy with them…
My ideas on marriage don’t apply to a great many people.”
Now, with that having been said ONE MORE TIME, I am currently in the midst of fiscal year end at work and won’t have the hours to dedicate to a thorough discussion of the topic for several weeks. I would certainly be very willing to bring it up again at that time.
Regarding my thoughts on priestly celibacy…it is not out of ignorance I speak. It is out of experience. I completely understand the ideology behind being married to God and all that entails…but again, not a discussion I have the time and energy to go into at present.
Nice post, Paul. I agree with everything except the bit about the priests. Priests should be allowed to marry. The relationship between a man and a woman is beautiful and there is no reason to give that up. If any religion gets in the way of marriage, drop that religion.
By the way, if priests or anyone else is a pedophile, they should be punished severely. This should be done on television as a deterrent to discourage this and other forms of sexual perversion.
First, to Nick; You’ve got to do what YOU really think is the thing to do. I would certainly not judge your actions, I have no right to.
Karma; Right on! I am totally in agreement with you.
Mr. Dublin; Kudos for speaking out. Couldn’t agree more.
Terminator; You sound like I was at 18. If you still feel the same way in ten years, I’d be amazed, but glad to see you stuck to your guns.
To the rest; Judge not, for thou be judged (or some shit like that) Your life clock is ticking, better to act than be an armchair QB.
Oop’s almost forgot. Nick, whatever you do, I (and 99.9% of us) hope it works out. Lets remember that we all have a lot more in common than we realize.
“Did THEY skate the river? Did THEY pull the dogsled?”
Sorry, movie flashback.
Jack I’m not starigth edge I don’t want to bwe a virgin but unfortunently it ain’t my choice.I have no idea how to meet qualtiy girls.It kinda sucks!I seroiusly haqve absolutley no idea how to meet women.I’ve been to some frat parties but they suck,are boring,and are a bad palce to meet girls.I’m 18 so I can’t get into bars.My looks or self esttem arn’t a problem it is just I have no idea how to meet girls.
Karam my posts did have a point,but didn’t you critize a qoute from my post?Is that not part of arguing,critizing anothers satement or opinion and then tearing it apart and exposing it as the pile of crap it truly is .Wow!I don’t even feel that strongly about this issue,I was partly arguing for FUN!Debatings FUN!I just waiting for the post where you say Terminator you are right I am wrong,You are truly great indeed.Can you say that next post Karma so we can end this argument already.Theres no shame in admitting that you lost the argument,I mean maybe if you lost an argument to your average person it would be a hit to your self esteem,but I’m the Terminator.
Avoids You also wouldn’t have that nasty case of herpes that keeps cropping up if it wern’t for girls like Karma.Sorry but I could’nt ressist.I’m tired of this thread though!Later!Everyone good luck in life!
Are you guys complicated or what? I don’t know for you, but imagining myself, my girlfriend and another person (guy/girl, damage is the same)would spell out A) What the f*** are you now? Answer:You’re not enough anymore (which leads to) B) Does she need you really? I remember a video of a pornstar in a documentary on her life and in it, she actually did a threesome scene with her current boyfriend (also an actor) and some other guy. You should have seen the boyfriend’s face after that…destroyed. I guess hearing your girlfriend moan and grind another guy in your presence just spells out EXPANDABLE and the boyfriend’s reaction was normal. The girl didn’t even finch. BARF! And she says she loves him. YEAH RIGHT. If you love someone, you think of the consequences of your acts on the other’s feelings…otherwise call yourself a swinger. To all you who think experimenting is compatible with couple, get real! If you have not tried enough things in your adolescent or previous experience, show some respect for the other, finish your ‘couple’, go on, and experiment. Just don’t do it at another person’s expense. And no ‘well, she wants it too’ sh*t, because somebody is definitely not respecting (or satisfied with) the other when such an idea pops up. Just be honest with yourself and the other. Adding another person in your couple won’t solve the problem, it will only confirm it. Of course, this does not apply to non-serious relationships, obviously. And mariage is definitely a serious relationship, mind you!
Nick, back to your question, I am female and have a really great relationship with my guy. We have talked about everything we fantasized about and what we wanted to try. I was curious about being with another woman and wanted to try a threesome. We talked about it alot before doing it because we did not want to do anything to ruin what we had. We needed to consider the insecurities that either of us might have. I have to say I did consider that maybe he might want her more than me, or that she was better than me in one way or another. But, I believe that I know what drives him crazy what he loves to have done in bed or out of bed (he he). We talk about everything to each other, we try different things with each other. So, we met someone (through Adult Friend Finders on the net)who was attracted to me and who I was attracted to. We met a few times before actually getting together and we had fun. Afterwards my guy and I talked and I guess we know each others little quirks so well that he knew what to say to me so I knew I was still #1 with him and he knew that although I enjoyed touching her and being with her nothing could replace him. We might do it again, sometime, if things worked out right but I have to tell you, you have really got to know each other and talk about everything that could happen, might happen, feelings etc. I mean really discuss it. Because if there is any tiny amount of insecurity about anything, I can tell you it could be the beginning of the end. You have to have a really strong relationship to be able to bring another person into it, even if its for a short time. Good luck!
Karma I think you might want to reread some of your posts as you seem to be suffering selective memory loss. You ask me if I didn’t castrate myself why did I bring it up. Your post (for me& JRC) “Regarding if a real T-man should respect his wife - absolutely! Respect the hell out of her. Hopefully she deserves it. But don’t castrate yourself in the process of respecting a female (or a male for that matter).” Considering I talked about respecting my wife I think this was meant for me. You brought up castration, not me. Why respond to something that doesn’t apply to me? In said post you also say, “. We both recognize the fact of human attraction not being confined solely to marital partners and the fatal flaw of patriarchal, Judeo-Christian societies in regards to the strictures placed on marriage.” If this wasn’t meant for me the who was it meant for? I talked about being married, did I not? Since you failed to qualify the following statement,“…being monogamous does not necessarily equate to being a dickless wonder; just most of the time it does. Most men would LOVE to get new pooty whenever and wherever they could but don’t because of the lil’ woman. THAT’S being the pussywhipped pantywaist.” in effect you said most monogamous men here fall under the same category. Where did you dig up this little gem anyway. Did you survey most men? You could have said , “In my experience” or even IMO, but no you state this as if it is a fact. You wonder why I call you an expert? Now as for my so called lame life, yeah you’re right, I wake up every morning and think " what can I do to razz karma today". I mean afterall I sent what, maybe ten posts to you. I guess I’m the only one that disagrees with you that is razzing you. It seems you like to dish it out but you can’t take it. This from a person that started a thread( Hockey vs Football) just to generate some heat. Who really needs to get a life here? On second thought don’t answer that I already know the answer.
“The only real pussy is someone who insults a person over the safety of the internet.”
That is easily the most uneducated comment I have read in a long time.
Also go back and read the things you wrote if you still think I am wrong good for you. Good luck, god bless and all that other BS.
Seriously it is so obvious that there is a lack of not only testosterone on this board but also intelligence and common sense. Oh and I am sure I am going to hear crap about that last comment. Great now all I have done is join the herd(no I won’t go spell check it who cares).
Quit picking on karma eh? Since when is have a debate or disageement considered “picking on”. It’s nice to see you stand up for her. Would be so quick is this was a guy talking? I don’t think karma needs or wants you to defend her. I could be wrong though. As a matter of fact I think she would consider it an insult that you think she needed rescuing. I could be wrong though.
How do you come to the conclusion that the statement is uneducated?? I see messages posted by people like you on the net all the time. People who are on forums just to annoy others or to get an argument going with people. Keyboard warriors like you who do nothing but act tough on the net because they are cowards and pussies in real life. Why do you come to this site? Do you even train?
Quoting Karma: ?Now, if you happen to have done some INDEPENDENT thinking and come to whatever conclusions about sexual matters that are right for YOU (sans the social acceptance factor) - then more power to you and bravo for not being a sheep! Whatever you have decided is awesome! Just fuckin’ give me the same right to have my own set of morals to live by without your coming to the conclusion that I must be “damaged” in order to be able to think freely and therefore my set of morals is inferior to yours! Just because we may differ does not make one of us “right” and the other “wrong”. FUCK…some people just don’t get it.?
Yeah Karma, and I believe that the earth is flat. Do you believe the earth is round? Well, your opinion is no more valid than mine?just because we may differ does not make one of us ?right? and the other ?wrong?. After all, there is no absolute truth, right?
More of Karma?s babbling: ?But as for “good morals” - who’s morals are those? Are they your’s? Are they mine? Are they Adolf Hitler’s? Are they Mother Theresa’s? Who’s morals are the “good” ones??
So you couldn?t tell me if Hitler?s morals were better than Mother Theresa?s? Give me a break! We all know that Hitler?s morals were bad and that Mother Theresa?s were good. Enough of this postmodern BS!!! We all know that some things are good and that some things are bad. Just as it is a FACT that the earth is round, it is also a FACT that torturing and killing a baby is wrong. Every human being knows this deep inside. We all have a sense of what is right and what is wrong! For you to say, ?Who?s morals are the ?good? ones?? is ludicrous!
More Karma: ?My ideas on marriage don’t apply to a great many people, does that mean I am not allowed to have or express those ideas??
Sure you can express them, but it doesn?t mean that they are right!
?Just because I have an opinion that is different from yours does not make it any more fucked up than your opinion. You are welcome to have your opinion, why am I not welcome to have mine??
You are right Karma. I believe the earth is flat. You have no right to tell me that I?m wrong dammit!
ARE YOU KIDDING ME. I never wanted to annoy anyone. You are the one who called me a pussy. Dude you are out of your mind. I am not one of those people on the net. I am begging everyone to stay on topic and stay with the theme of this board. TESTOSTERONE.NET has anyone paid attention to that. This place is looking more like a message board for ROSIE magazine or Oprah. Molsonman listen maybe we are both getting the wrong point across to each other. Fine lets drop it. By the way I work out everyday and I in no way enjoy getting into it out here. Actually I think it started because I made a joke towards you about your original opinion or who knows but this thing has snowballed like most things on these boards. That is one of the points I have been trying to make lately. For these boards to be useful each thread should stay on topic otherwise people just spend hours arguing on and on. Dude lets stop alright.
Some guys have no sense of humor!
Dude- Most women are not self assured and confident enough in themselves to do a threesome or mate swap until they are in their 30’s. Some of the BEST sex I ever had was during threesomes or mate swapping. It’s just about sex and having fun. If either if you get’s attached to the other party it get’s fucked up. For us it is great forplay but it is for each other. It’s fun that’s all. Most women dig other women they are just too repressed to come clean. If your girl is being straight with you jump in, you won’t regret it. My wife wouldn’t care if I banged a hottie as long as she could join in. Find a woman like that (you may have one on your hands) and life will be good!!!
Actually I think your only purpose on this thread is to annoy people. You came on here and called me a pussy and a wimp and then I responded with “The only real pussy is someone who insults a person over the safety of the internet”. I didn’t say that Phil was a pussy, I made a general comment about people who continually insult people over the net. So you obviously think that applies to you. Even in your last post you are trying to aggitate.