Thoughts Regarding MMA Training

Xen, the last dude replying to the thread has expressed all that is wrong with your ideas divinely:

“If it was truly as you describe, a person would be able to bench 400 but wouldn’t be able to lift the bar in incline press if they didn’t train for it.”

Signing your name on a paper is a complex movement, much like punching, but it’s not a power movement.

I never said a buff guy can climb into a ring and kick ass, without good, clean MMA training.

You need, in striking, for example, to have practiced the movements. To know how to fire off your muscle fibers.

Which muscle fibers? The ones you have. That’s where you’re wrong, saying that strenght without mass is simply adaptation to a certain movement.

By working out with medium weights and high reps you’re promoting slow-twitch fiber growth. And you’re also promoting water retention inside the muscle, the useless kind of hypertrophy.

By using compound movements and big weights, explosive lifting, you’re promoting fast-twitch fiber growth.

That’s what’s wrong with your post. You’re ignoring this.

We are machines, and when you take these
two machines that have the same bodyweight and bone weight and body fat percentage, the same training and the same neural adaptations, what you will see that makes an immense difference (like the difference between an amateur and a pro athlete) is the percentage of fast-twitch fiber.

A super-fast-twitch dominant fighter will make a slow-twitch fighter look real real real bad, even when all other things are equal.

Keep training with yer small weights. And stop arguing about how you have to do specific MMA training. That’s a no brainer. If you’re not doing it, you’re not a fighter, if you’re doing it, good, so’s everyone else who’s a fighter.

I have noticed a few other problems in the theory (specifically that ‘muscle fibers’ only learn to be strong in the specific movement trained when high tension is used, but ‘just get strong’ when maximally hypertrophied).

The first pertains to the central drive theory (I don’t know who first hypothesized it, but I read it in Charlie Francis’ work). This states that improvements in some aspect of the CNS’ ability (in terms of region) translates to improvement in the ability of CNS in other regions of the body.

For examples of this, see comments about Ben Johnson (a man who could certain throw a punch in his day, due to the whole spectrum of non-specific (to punching) training means, done at a very high intensity) benching more closely to competition in order to maintain high CNS stimulation, or just read about Dan John’s one armed work (during injury) leading to a MUCH lower billateral strength discrepency once his injured wrist allowed training.

The second problem pertains to method of strength development. According to Siff (and I am confident that others agree with him), there are three methods to increase displayable strength (not str-end, not power-end, etc). These are the improvement on MU recruitment (turning on more total muscle fibers-using the discontinuous innervation model), rate-coding improvement, and fiber cross-sectional area increase.

Optimal training methods for the first include explosive movements, such as med ball throws, vertical leaps, light speed squats, olympic lifts, etc. Optimal training methods for the second include straining efforts against high resistance, generally for a low number of reps (due to the reality fatigue byproducts inhibit CNS function). ‘Optimal’ training methods for the third are highly open for debate (as can be seen on the ‘Building a Better Body’ forum).

This third category is likely where most 5x10 loading parameters fall. This method is effective and required IF the athlete has maximized his(her) ability to recruit multiple motor units, and optimized his(her) ability to sustain firing those motor units (I say optimized because, in a punch or any other high speed movement, there comes a time, due to short duration, when more ‘twitches’ don’t have any effect, as the movement is complete before they are used). These developments ARE NOT specific to the movement pattern, but are an intrinsic feature of the trained motor complex (all available MU’s in the body region).

As such, the ability to rapidly generate force in the elbow extensors positively corelates to increased potential punch force, as does improvements to generate force in almost every muscle of the body (as a punch truly is a full body motion). Where your understanding of specificity is getting muddled is in the expression of force. The reason why practicing flat bench presses most greatly improves flat bench press performance is because every physical skill has a specific optimal time-position-force relation between all the muscle complexes involved.

So when you say a maximally hypertrophied muscle would produce more force then a muscle with lower cross-section, in an absolute sense, you are correc. The same holds true for the other two factors affecting motor complex strength. As such, ANY increase in the ability of a motor complex to produce strength, so long as it is limiting factor, improves the potential to produce punching power. The key here, for each body link, is force production potential. For the whole body, it is then skill development (meaning force balancing/timing/directing).

For this, it does not matter is the arm (or any other body segment, the example holds) is 18" or 15" in circumference, if they both are capable of producing 1000 N of tension in the elbow extensors, they both are equally capable of producing force to add to a punch. In fact, the smaller arm is probably preferrable (I know, I just said it might be better to be smaller, the horror) because, owing to its invariably lighter weight, would allow greater acceleration around the shoulder joint due to F=ma (sorry, I don’t know how to get the angular ‘alpha’ from this keyboard). This holds true for ALL joints.

So, in conclusion. Force is non-specific. As such, absolute force production is non-specific. Skill development through practice, with the available force potential, leads to punch power. Improving either of the two factors (skill or absolute force production) is highly likely to increase punch power. Final question, who would you rather have hit you, an Olympic level weightlifter, or a high school welterweight gold-gloves boxer (assuming that the weightlifter is in the same weight class)?

Hypothetical Situation #1 - For any and all to answer.
A 28-year old guy (6’0", 200 pounds, 13%bf), who has been training according to Fitness Fiction magazines (read: he’s never heard of T-Nation), for the past 3 years comes to you and says “Dude, I want to be a competitive MMA fighter. Help me out.” He has no martial arts experience. What do you have him do?

Hypothetical Situation #2 -For any and all to answer.
A 28-year old guy (6’0", 200 pounds, 13%bf), who has been studying Muay Thai, BJJ, and Greco wrestling consistently for the past 3 years, but has never exercised other than sparring and repetitive skill practice, comes to you and says “Dude, I want to be a competitive MMA fighter. Help me out.” What do you have him do?[/quote]

Hi guys I thought I would take shot at answering this as except for a few differences in details (I’m 6’1, 190 pounds and 24 y.o) I am in the same boat as your hypothetical person in question number one.

This is what I would do (disclaimer: I am a noob, I have only been doing this seriously for about a year. Anything I get right is due to my strength coach being damn good. Anything I get wrong is due to my relative lack of experience). I’m making the assumption that a 28 y.o male would be working at least 40 hours per week and has a partner of some kind. I’m also assuming that hypothetical man (lets call him Bob) has the drive to do this properly.

MMA training: 8-10 hours per week training at a dedicated MMA/Vale Tudo gym (I prefer a BJJ/Muay Thai/Freestyle Wrestling mix, but whatever floats your boat). Wrestling and sparring included at least 3 hours worth per week as well as intense time based technique drills.

GPP: A combination of plyometrics + endurance based weights (coach Dan John’s tabata squats come to mind) split with 2-5 rep big lifts (squat, deadlift, bench ect). Also included could be power bag slams/throws, tire flips and sled drags.

Energy systems work with the goals of working as hard as you can for a given amount of time (say a round length) should also be in there. I would have Bob doing GPP 2 times per week (max of three).

Diet/nutrition: I would emphasise recovery (Surge) and the consumption of a protein+carb mix immediately post workout. Other dietary goals would depend on whether Bob wanted to compete at a higher or lower weight class.

The other stuff: Make sure Bob’s wife/girlfriend/barn animal understands that things are going to change. If he wants to do this then he is going to be sucking up a lot of cuddle time rolling around on the floor with a bunch of sweaty men. She will also need to understand that sometimes all Bob is going to want to do when he gets home is lie on the couch and cry like a girl. Finally Bob’s girlfriend should remember the amazing healing powers inherent in her being naked more often and endeavour to make this happen.

What do you think?

Cheers,

Andy
NZ

This was mentioned above, but really your training week should be divided up in accordance with what your weak points are. I think it’s difficult to come up with a definitive: “this is how you should train” post without knowing an athletes individual needs.

However, I don’t think it’s being too controversial to venture that an MMA athlete will require the following:

skill & technique
strength-endurance/endurance-strength
Limit strength
power
anaerobic conditioning
somewhat of an aerobic base
injury prevention work
big bollocks

For me, when I trained MMA, (can’t afford it these days) I found I came unstuck when I tried to combine everything into one workout - doing stuff like a near max deadlift followed by a bazillion sprawls and then 50 one arm push ups followed by 2 mins on the bag. I basically just got good at making myself very tired. A bit like when I did crossfit actually… But there’s another story.

i was basically going to leave this thread alone cause i presented a few points wrong and im just tired of it

but big bollocks.

thats damn right lol

I wouldn’t worry about getting things wrong from time to time, it stimulated some good debate. Also I’ve read a lot of your posts on here and at mma.tv and you seem to have an analytical, intellectual approach to your training. In fact I’ve shared and at times copied a lot of your same ideas especially re your approach to westside etc. Anyway, good luck in your training…