Thought Of The Day-Bully Wars

Off Topic
61

[quote]polo77j wrote:
I don’t know if this has been touched on but what are they defining as “bullying”? When I was in JHS and HS I was picked on a bit but wouldn’t consider it bullying as I know it. I wonder how they worded their survey of students in the initial study and what definition of “bullying” they used when asking the question. The people conducting the survey could’ve wanted these results to pass their own agenda along so they worded the survey in a way to produce these results…

I think that the number of kids being “bullied” is rather inflated…[/quote]

In that documentary vid that someone posted about the teens weightlifting, one of them stated some girl at school made “fat faces” at him (because he was chubby) so he asked his mom to take him pout of school or put him in counseling.

As weak as some kids are today, I doubt much is needed for them to cry about bullying.

I agree, there is a big difference between that and literally trying to wreck someone’s life. Some of these people just have no boundaries…but hey, like has been said millions of times, that is what you get when dumbass videos can be taken by your camera and posted to millions in seconds going viral. The whole world becomes like Jackass.

62

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:
I don’t know if this has been touched on but what are they defining as “bullying”? When I was in JHS and HS I was picked on a bit but wouldn’t consider it bullying as I know it. I wonder how they worded their survey of students in the initial study and what definition of “bullying” they used when asking the question. The people conducting the survey could’ve wanted these results to pass their own agenda along so they worded the survey in a way to produce these results…

I think that the number of kids being “bullied” is rather inflated…[/quote]

In that documentary vid that someone posted about the teens weightlifting, one of them stated some girl at school made “fat faces” at him (because he was chubby) so he asked his mom to take him pout of school or put him in counseling.

As weak as some kids are today, I doubt much is needed for them to cry about bullying.

I agree, there is a big difference between that and literally trying to wreck someone’s life. Some of these people just have no boundaries…but hey, like has been said millions of times, that is what you get when dumbass videos can be taken by your camera and posted to millions in seconds going viral. The whole world becomes like Jackass.[/quote]

I’m a little out of the loop when it comes to contemporary adolesent culture…This is the question I get when I read your post though: Is the problem really a larger number of kids getting bullied or a few kids are getting bullied (let’s use the example of bullying in this scenario is the uploading of embarassing behavior to youtube etc.) but it’s being mass distributed? Has the number of actual bullying (again, let’s use the definition of “trying to wreck someone’s life” … none of this foo-foo she made a fat face at me and now I’m scarred for life shit) increased or the actual awareness due to the increase of media outlets? Inversely, has the amount of bullying stayed constant, but the sensitivity to it increased?

Is the problem the bullying or the kids inability to cope? Has society crippled coping mechanisms and ability to adjust to pressures or adolesence?

So many questions, so little time…

63

Bully = Natural Selection

64

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]According to data collected by the department’s research wing last year, one-third of all students ages 12 to 18 felt that they were being bullied or harassed at school, Ms. Ali said in an interview.

“Folks need to wake up,” Ms. Ali said. “We have a crisis in our schools in which bullying and harassment seems to be a rite of passage, and it doesn’t need to be that way.” [/quote]

I got teased in school as a kid. I wore huge fucking glasses in junior high and that along with being a little smaller than the other kids meant I was a target. I was about a year younger at least than everyone else which is one reason as well.

Looking back, I can’t say much negative about any of it. Things like that are why I pushed harder. People telling me what I can’t do is one reason I am doing those things right now.

Where will kids be without any of that?

Do you really strive to be your best when you are constantly told that you are already your best right now?

How many of those kids in school that everyone thought were the coolest are the most interesting people right now years after high school?

Doesn’t that situation actually flip considerably around college?

Those “nerds” are the ones owning the companies (and your girls) 15-20 years later.[/quote]

I was in a similar boat. I’m not huge, but in the real world 5’7" and 205 is big. No one pushes me around or starts trouble with me. But if I wasn’t small to start I may have never pushed to get big and strong.

I was always the smart kid , so I thought I’d try being the strong guy also. The lessons I learned due to this were invaluable. While bullying can be horrible, I doubt anyone will just push without some external incentive.

65

True story

In high school when you were desperate to score weed you went downtown to this park. It was also a hang out for gays.

Anyway me and a couple buddies were sitting on a bench waiting for a dealer to notice us. As we waited a couple of tough guys started shit with this gay dude who was walking by. Fast foward a couple of minutes and on the ground were these two tough guys bleeding from various parts of their faces.

The gay guy just wailed on them, it was fucking impressive. As we sat there with our jaws hanging open the gay guy goes to us " only one thing I like better than fucking guys( or something like that)…fighting" hahahaha.

After seeing that display I never, ever underestimated anybody in a fight on looks alone or if they look like a fag.

I have a feeling this gay dude was bullied…untill one day…

66

[quote]DickBag wrote:

hope no scary monsters kill me.
[/quote]

They won’t kill you. They will pants you and put the pics up on myspace though.

67

Interesting thread. I figured I would weigh in on a few things.

I was very small growing up, smaller than all the girls, and I got picked on a lot in preschool and K-1. I had a really bad temper, too, so when I had enough, I let people have it. I got in a lot of trouble and I was called a bully because I won the fights. Nobody seemed to care about what happened leading up to the fight, or that I was never the first to throw a punch or a kick. I was just the bad kid because at the end of the incident the other kids were crying and I was just beet red from anger. After 1st grade I didn’t get picked on anymore because one way or another the other kids got the idea that I was going to beat them up. In 4th grade I got in trouble because this punk kid on the bus was touching a younger girl between the legs and I bent his finger back and broke it. His parents marched him with his finger splint to my front door and I got a whoopin because the girl wouldn’t say what the other kid had done to her. So, long story short, “bullying” is hard to define and a lot of the time the wrong kid is punished or at least not listened to.

The Rutgers situation is terrible. As I understand it, the guy asked for the room, so he’s entitled to privacy when the door is closed and locked. The other kid may have been weirded out by his roomie having gay sex in there, but of course he had no right to access his webcam while his roomie had asked for the room. He should have had nothing to react to. When he saw what was going on, what he did was the ultimate in D-baggery. 18-year old gay males are usually not out of the closet and of course it’s a private matter. It doesn’t matter what he feels about finding out his roomie is having gay sex in the privacy of the room, even if it’s a shared room. He needs to address it privately with his roomie, and shouldn’t tell anyone. That’s room mate code as far as I’m concerned.

Anyway, I’ve probably said more than anybody will really take time to read, but the bottom line is I think that kids need to be empowered to stand up for themselves, not punished for hitting back.

68

I was painfully shy in the first few years of grade school but I have no recollection of ever being picked on. Later on I was popular.

We did some picking on some kids but I don’t recall the kids ever being as cruel as I’ve seen in recent media, but being among the non-picked on I don’t have a complete picture.

I remember getting into a disagreement with another girl around grade 5 or so and getting hauled into the principals office for verbal abuse and sent home with a letter. This got me into a lot of trouble from my parents. So it’s not like bullying has always been tolerated. At least where I went to school. I suppose that all falls apart if the parents disrespect the authority of the school and ignore the request for discipline.

I agree kids need to experience some things for themselves, but I don’t think anything that would get you disciplined at a job should be tolerated from school kids, since this is the world and set of rules we are supposedly preparing kids for. As is stands, much of the bullying behavior that goes on is criminal harassment and assault and battery.

69

[quote]polo77j wrote:
I’m a little out of the loop when it comes to contemporary adolesent culture…This is the question I get when I read your post though: Is the problem really a larger number of kids getting bullied or a few kids are getting bullied (let’s use the example of bullying in this scenario is the uploading of embarassing behavior to youtube etc.) but it’s being mass distributed? Has the number of actual bullying (again, let’s use the definition of “trying to wreck someone’s life” … none of this foo-foo she made a fat face at me and now I’m scarred for life shit) increased or the actual awareness due to the increase of media outlets? Inversely, has the amount of bullying stayed constant, but the sensitivity to it increased?

Is the problem the bullying or the kids inability to cope? Has society crippled coping mechanisms and ability to adjust to pressures or adolesence?

So many questions, so little time…[/quote]

I might be able to answer some of these. Studies I have read say the number of kids ‘bullied’ is about the same as when most of us where kids. Suicide rates, etc. pretty similar as well.

I think the difference now is the level of saturation in an individuals life that bullying can occupy. School (that is a given), online (which means at home in private), more can people find out ‘rumors’ faster, even when kids change schools the geographic relocation does nothing to prevent continued or expanded bullying online (sometimes ‘bullies’ will contact students at the new school to keep spreading the rumors/harassment). The relatively short spell when I might have been bullied I knew that it might happen on the bus or between two certain classes but otherwise not likely. Now kids can get bullied 24/7. Also, as others have noted, the lack of consequences about online behavior is important thing to consider. I think the role of online social networking is the difference. (I also think the attitude of “its the internet so its no big deal” is part of the problem.)

I also think there are few on here that can understand what continued bullying is like. Imhungry, Angry Chicken and MarvelGirl come to mind.

70

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Just as everything has “changed” - girls dressing skankier at an earlier age, hazing getting more ridiculous, more suicides and violence in schools - why can’t we assume that the “bullying landscape” has changed (for the worse) in proportion to everything else?

Most of us aren’t in our teens anymore. Not even close. I was picked on, too, but never to the point of wanting to hurt myself. And I don’t recall picture messaging and video messaging being so ubiquitous that it was a natural medium for spreading rumor and scandal. I also don’t think the people that would hurt themselves over being bullied were mentally healthy to begin with. You aren’t just rock solid mentally one minute and then over the edge because someone called you “faggot.”

And with social media, news flies and flickers out just as fast, but that also means you are exposed to reactions with just as much speed.

I think the pace at which things are “changing” is far greater than the rate of maturity and sensitivity are improving toward sensitive topics - sexuality, body image, etc.

So, I think that disparity in rates of change necessitates a greater emphasis - from peers and parents - on teaching others how to navigate social situations. In other words, just expecting young people (a 12 year old committed suicide recently, right? another gay teen?) to “get it” isn’t exactly fair, but I’m also not saying they need hand holding. I’m saying what they face - is a crueler kind of harassment than what many of us went through.

But I also think what’s causing this unusual disparity is really a function of the times - our entertainment. We are sitting behind computer screens with less real life interactions per day, meaning less familiarity with awkwardness and social situations and greater social anxiety disorders. The kids that retreat behind video games and laptop screens I bet are far more likely to break down for a bit of bullying, less “hardiness” or whatever you want to call it.

And if anyone thinks I’m saying that bullying victims need to be coddled, you are an illiterate monkey who should lick my balls, because that’s not what I said.[/quote]

well stated

71

from what you’re writing, i had the bad luck of never been really bullied, guess i’d be a tougher kid now. maybe. maybe not. i’d still recommend watching Bang Bang You're Dead (2002) - IMDb

72

This is one of the most interesting and telling threads I’ve read in awhile on T-Nation. (Thanks Prof X)

It seems like quite a few of us came up from being bullied at a young age (no exception here). Early failure seems to have driven us to achieve something better for ourselves.
Bullying in schools is something I’ve had a personal interest in for a long time. Just because I ended up becoming something better from it, doesn’t mean there was anything OK with it, and it quite literally almost killed me. None of my front teeth are real, as they were broken out by bullies in the 5th and 6th grade. I was small enough growing up that I had no chance of fighting back. I went through hell when I was young, and considered suicide for years and years. When I got to college, I found the gym, and put about 50 solid pounds on within a year. I wasn’t bullied anymore, and had alot of friends, but the after-effects were still there. I still wasn’t comfortable with myself, and ended up a drug addict for 2 years. I’ve been sober for about 5 years or so now, have a wonderful career, friends, and I’m in the best shape of my life. But the fact that I almost didn’t make it leaves a pretty terrible taste in my mouth when it comes to bullying. I almost didn’t make it, and plenty of kids in my condition don’t.

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[quote]
How many of those kids in school that everyone thought were the coolest are the most interesting people right now years after high school?

Doesn’t that situation actually flip considerably around college?

Those “nerds” are the ones owning the companies (and your girls) 15-20 years later.[/quote]

Depends a lot on what generation you’re talking about. Nowadays, and for the last 10-15 years or so, the average person goes to college(or tries to). So those kids who were assholes in HS end up at some of the same colleges as the dorks, the only difference is that the cliques are gone and people are starting to mature. And more often than not, it’s not the nerds who end up running those companies. The nerds end up doing the ‘busy’ technical work, while the “assholes” ended up getting mba’s and are in management and the boardroom.

Personally I think that to a certain extent HS mirrors the real world, except that people can(generally) coexist in a civil manner, and the shyness/awkwardness is gone.

Maybe at one time you could say that the nerds got their “revenge” by going to college and coming out better on the other end, but nowadays you pretty much have to go to college, so it’s not just the nerds who end up going - and typically they still lack the over-the-top boldness/confidence that lets so many of the former bully types continue to be successful later in life.

74

[quote]Zaroaster wrote:

[quote]
How many of those kids in school that everyone thought were the coolest are the most interesting people right now years after high school?

Doesn’t that situation actually flip considerably around college?

Those “nerds” are the ones owning the companies (and your girls) 15-20 years later.[/quote]

Depends a lot on what generation you’re talking about. Nowadays, and for the last 10-15 years or so, the average person goes to college(or tries to). So those kids who were assholes in HS end up at some of the same colleges as the dorks, the only difference is that the cliques are gone and people are starting to mature. And more often than not, it’s not the nerds who end up running those companies. The nerds end up doing the ‘busy’ technical work, while the “assholes” ended up getting mba’s and are in management and the boardroom.

Personally I think that to a certain extent HS mirrors the real world, except that people can(generally) coexist in a civil manner, and the shyness/awkwardness is gone.

Maybe at one time you could say that the nerds got their “revenge” by going to college and coming out better on the other end, but nowadays you pretty much have to go to college, so it’s not just the nerds who end up going - and typically they still lack the over-the-top boldness/confidence that lets so many of the former bully types continue to be successful later in life. [/quote]

I think you misunderstand what I meant. College alone today is like a high school degree was 30 years ago. That alone is not the standard I am discussing. A REAL “nerd” is not going to stop at a “basic college degree”. On average, you will not be earning six figures that way. I also think you assume I am in my 40’s.

I was a nerd in high school. I was not a nerd in college (physically or outwardly). College life is too large for those big fish in small ponds to stand out like they did in the 11th grade.

The “most popular” kids in school do not seem to turn into the “most successful” adults 20 years later unless they get into pro sports are become celebrities (I am speaking in generalities not absolutes). Most of the girls we all drooled over in school are fat heifers now with 2-3 kids. I see more of the quiet passed over types becoming successful in this city years later, not the ones who made being part of the “in crowd” their main concern in high school.

I don’t see any of the “assholes” around here starting their own practices or even reaching the same educational level as those who spent those years working their asses of in school.

Chances are, if you spent all four years of college partying and fucking while skipping class, you will not be running your own company years later employing all of the people who went to class.

We are not speaking of “aggressive people who work really hard and may be assumed to be assholes”. We are talking about Al Bundy types who hit their peak in high school and felt they didn’t have to work any harder.

75

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In junior high, I beat them up with my flute case.

Yeah, that’s right. Bad ass fucking flute player…with big ass glasses…and toothpick arms. Hell, I would probably make fun of me.[/quote]

Man, one former flute player to another, you gotta hide that shit in a backpack; those cases are small for a reason.

I can’t nearly claim the levels of shit that some people can, but I was (am) a geek, and I got picked on. Some of the talk about athletics and it helping out victims is probably true, but I can’t vouch; I was a couch potato in HS. What I can say is that I don’t think I EVER got picked on by athletes. They all had ways to channel whatever asshole tendencies they had into other areas. Also, the competition involved in athletics establishes something of a pecking order, so there’s less need to bully the geeks to look cool.

I think that this is part of the reason that middle school can be so much worse than HS. There’s just less for kids that age to do to differentiate themselves from each other, so they have more time and reason to think of ways to be horrible to each other.

76

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In junior high, I beat them up with my flute case.

Yeah, that’s right. Bad ass fucking flute player…with big ass glasses…and toothpick arms. Hell, I would probably make fun of me.[/quote]

Man, one former flute player to another, you gotta hide that shit in a backpack; those cases are small for a reason.

I can’t nearly claim the levels of shit that some people can, but I was (am) a geek, and I got picked on. Some of the talk about athletics and it helping out victims is probably true, but I can’t vouch; I was a couch potato in HS. What I can say is that I don’t think I EVER got picked on by athletes. They all had ways to channel whatever asshole tendencies they had into other areas. Also, the competition involved in athletics establishes something of a pecking order, so there’s less need to bully the geeks to look cool.

I think that this is part of the reason that middle school can be so much worse than HS. There’s just less for kids that age to do to differentiate themselves from each other, so they have more time and reason to think of ways to be horrible to each other.

77

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I see more of the quiet passed over types becoming successful in this city years later, not the ones who made being part of the “in crowd” their main concern in high school.
[/quote]

Completely depends on the place. I live in nyc now, and used to live in LA, and assholes run both of these cities at all levels.

I think you’re unfairly splitting these rather vague groups into extremes. It’s not just the brain dead al bundy types who are the assholes and bullies in HS, or college - nor are the only people who end up successful later in life the former nerdy bookworms. Things aren’t nearly that black and white.

78

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I see more of the quiet passed over types becoming successful in this city years later, not the ones who made being part of the “in crowd” their main concern in high school.
[/quote]

Completely depends on the place. I live in nyc now, and used to live in LA, and assholes run both of these cities at all levels.

I think you’re unfairly splitting these rather vague groups into extremes. It’s not just the brain dead al bundy types who are the assholes and bullies in HS, or college - nor are the only people who end up successful later in life the former nerdy bookworms. Things aren’t nearly that black and white.

79

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I see more of the quiet passed over types becoming successful in this city years later, not the ones who made being part of the “in crowd” their main concern in high school.
[/quote]

Completely depends on the place. I live in nyc now, and used to live in LA, and assholes run both of these cities at all levels.

I think you’re unfairly splitting these rather vague groups into extremes. It’s not just the brain dead al bundy types who are the assholes and bullies in HS, or college - nor are the only people who end up successful later in life the former nerdy bookworms. Things aren’t nearly that black and white.

80

I think there’s a big difference between the “assholes” who end up in management, and the “bullies” who end up in prison. The assholes (usually jocks), did off-hand pranks and (mostly) irritating stuff. Whereas the real bullies seemed to really live for making others’ lives miserable.

Like alot of you, I’m grateful I was pushed around a little by the assholes and the bullies. I got in some fights growing up. I won some, and lost some. The last “fight” was a one-punch KO (I was on the receiving end). I probably owe 20 years of Karate, and my dedication to iron to that punch. My time in karate and lifting gave me the confidence to avoid some fights later on that could have been much more serious. I didn’t feel like I needed to prove anything by fighting a “real” fight. I got the competitive “rush” and chance to smash faces in Karate.