This is Pretty Sick...

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]blck1jack wrote:
I’m sick and tired of the bullshit about civillians. THIS IS WAR. CIVILLIANS GET KILLED. THEY GET KILLED BECAUSE ALL PEOPLE IN THE ARMY WERE ONCE CIVLLIANS. THE ONLY WAY TO WIN A WAR IS TO BREAK THE ENEMY"S MORALE OR KILL SO MANY CIVILLIANS THAT THEY MUST SURRENDER. THIS IS HOW EVERY WAR WAS WON UP UNTILL VIETNAM. WE WON WWI, WWII, and OUR OWN CIVIL WAR BY KILLING CIVLIANS AND WAGING WHAT"S CALLED TOTAL WAR.

The use of disproportionate force, kiss my ass. IF you want to mess with a modern military then their gonna use everything in their power to KILL you. WAR isn’t NICE. ITS WAR. WERE NOT IN COLONIAL TIMES. We don’t line up on an open field and shoot at each other face to face. This is what your saying: we need a code of WAR. WAR IS WAR, if you’re going to play the game, then you’re playing hardball.[/quote]

THANK YOU. i have been wanting to say this to some of these clowns on these forums for a while now. go read your history books. war is hell. there are no inocents in war, and all sides do things that are inhumane to try to win.

62

[quote]k.elkouhen wrote:
Most people will agree that children shouldn’t be involved in psyops.

But does anybody understand the message Israel is sending to Lebanon with this operation?

[/quote]

As the OP it’s my job to say that a lot of posts are getting off topic…

Are these pictures propaganda ? If so, what’s the message ? And should children have been involved ?

63

Seppuku, You know your shit! (me too). Are you a history student by any chance? At one point when i was studying this i could barely leave the house, so full of sadness and suspicion of my fellow man. There is so much duplicity, in the media, and in powerful peoples actions.
Point 11 is deep. There was an international conference on the invasion of the golan heights and loads of Nasser-related shit going on at the time,(there have been so many), shortly after that, the US gave up on that…
Maybe this is why the US gives so much disproportionate aid to Egypt. If they support the arabs, they are much stronger.

point 24- true… these are the good ones, and what do they do with their PhDs? Get the fuck out! It’s animality out there.

Those Sabra (another word for the preferred artificial Israeli archetype) and Shatila massacres were unpunished i think. How? How do i know about it, yet no-one is even trying to change things, and this guy ran the country? Shit, i’m so glad he’s incapacitated now. He was a vicious cunt if ever there was one.

Like you said about the Al Aqsa dome, let’s not forget Sharon also pretty much single-handedly started the Al Aqsa Intifada (uprising) by insenstitively visiting it on a holy day with a shitload of Israeli soldiers (i forget, but 1000+) when he was ‘defence’ minister. Arabs threw rocks, the soldiers fired lived ammunition into the crowds. This is a metaphor for the whole conflict. One Israeli cabinet minister said that Sharon would be at the hague soon (for war crimes). This is a guy from his own government!

Doogie, you made a point about ‘no more Israel’. At the time, Israel was close to a binational agreement (meaning they live as a peaceful confederacy of states). This would of course include partial dissolution of borders, to allow the Palestinians some of Jerusalem/ their green-line territory back (pre 1967 internationally accepted, though very small, land allowances for palestinians) Now, they are just fighting to see who dies first. Still.

Blackjack (or whatever) you need to chill. you’re right in places, but fuck living in the world you create!

Rabbi man, i suspect your judgement about ‘moral high ground’ is clouded also… If you fire any rocket into Gaza (the most densely populated area ON EARTH, you are a terrorist. Many civilians will die. Israel has among the most sophisticated/relatively numerous armies in the world, with the best technology. And they control the borders of Gaza! If the want someone, they’ll find them. But they just show how much stronger they are in firepower any time a radical so much as throws a petrol bom at Israels borders. check out how many the Islamicists have killed-relative to how many the jews have. What high ground? Thats a sniper tower! (sorry)

To stay on-topic, initiating kids into war unneccessarily (If their dad’s a soldier, it may not be right, but understandable) if mos def wrong. I want to reiterate that the Israeli nation also taught a variety of functional warlike protocols to ‘preserve’ themsleves at the expense of their geographical neighbours 1) hatred of outsiders 2) defiant,violent spirits 3)a feeling of guilt/persecution for their history. At one point, holocaust study was over 50% of the total history curriculum. Now, as much as it was a terrible tragedy, one to never be forgotten, how would you feel about ethnic ‘outsiders’ if you could literally never forget? very bitter, aggressive and short-tempered is my answer.

If anyone doubts this, i’ll take the time to dig up references.

64

[quote]k.elkouhen wrote:
As the OP it’s my job to say that a lot of posts are getting off topic…

Are these pictures propaganda ? If so, what’s the message ? And should children have been involved ?[/quote]

LOL. Good luck with the steerage. Anyway, the only thing that is propaganda in this thread is your relentless baloney concerning whether the pictures are propaganda.

65

[quote]dannyrat wrote:
…
[/quote]

For someone who doesn’t support terrorism you make a lot of excuses for it.

66

Man … If you actually read in every post just to not be an apologist i said killing is wrong from any corner. just trying to balance the stream of information. There were no excuses in anything i wrote, only causes and effects. Pious liberals act like there’s no cause, only a monstrous effect. And if the only criticism of my statements is that i told you a lot of facts, good

67

[quote]vroom wrote:
dannyrat wrote:
…

For someone who doesn’t support terrorism you make a lot of excuses for it.[/quote]

Yup.

As soon as the Palestinians (and others) stop terrorism and adopt the methods of Ghandi and Martin Luther King they will be better off.

As long as terror is used by thoise that claim they fight for Palestine it will be bad of the Palestinians.

68

[quote]dannyrat wrote:
There were no excuses in anything i wrote, only causes and effects.[/quote]

You might want to think about what an excuse is…

69

Agreed. My overall point is the same as yours. I want peace
but i’ll fuck a kid up if he pushes me. If i keep trying to walk away, and you keep going, i guess i’m gonna dent your solar plexus. That’s the actual real world answer. Peace, but not at the expense of our own safety, right vroom?

I suppose the Palestinians think that is the answer- show they can’t be bullied. They do this in a horrible, violent, terrible, deplorable way (terrorism).
This leads to nothing good. Since we are having a discussion though, and i’m impatient now that noone seems to be listening, and just repeating platitudes and ‘they’ve been fighting for centuries’ type rhetoric, i’ll say----

The people on BOTH sides are guilty. BOTH SIDES. BOTH SIDES.

BUT. There needs to be a peace in the Middle East. The war cannot continue forever (as longtime Israeli Chief of Staff Moshe Dayan predicted, and who’s more expert than him?) so we need a peace deal right?

Anwar Sadat tried brokering a deal. Palestine were going for it (at last, admittedly at first they weren’t, but Sadat was cool, and told them sense) then, ISRAEL REJECTED A PEACE DEAL BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY WERE HOLDING ALL THE CHIPS, AND HAD THE MOST POWERFUL ALLIES/SPONSORS YOU COULD EVER WANT. Anyone who said it went down any different from this is ignorant. The capitalised statement needs to be committed to memory by most people posting in this thread. It’s like a mideast ‘Just Fucking Eat’, okay?

To continue the story, wars went on, more peace deals were proposed, and rejected, since Israel were in a commanding position (not biased, true),even more land was taken (giving the Israelis 76% of the land of what was once Palestine), so much so that they could not even fill it. So they appealed for worldwide jewry to come. etcetc
Shit went down, hostility continued, each side was deeply attached to Jerusalem etc etc.

THE PEOPLE OF GAZA (not all, but the ones we would hope to be given influence, to lead their refugee nation) HAD NO EMPLOYMENT, AS ISRAEL HAD TAKEN ALL THEIR CROPS, WATER AND JOBS. SO NOW, THEY HAD TO TRAVEL TO ISRAEL IN LIMITED NUMBERS TO DO MENIAL JOBS, DESPITE WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN NOTED IN THIS THREAD ABOUT A HUGE PhD RATE. (Bear in mind, that educated people, travelling even to Jordan or Egypt, would be very restricted, and Israel regularly imposes entire curfew and confinement in the Gaza strip, and limited mobility in the West Bank, to an entire nation, as punsihemnt for the actions of a radical group)
Imagine if you lived in a small town, and one kid was a murderer/rapist. Get him, right? What if he had a gun? avoid him and hope/help the authorities get him, right? Well what if the authorities put your whole town in a tine cage and refused you water, jobs, or to leave this place, even to work as a professor or doctor in egypt? (for example)

THESE PEOPLE JUST WANTED TO LIVE. BUT THEY WANTED BETTER CONDITIONS, SO DID WHAT ANY SOCIALIST WOULD DO PEACEABLY FOR THEIR RIGHTS- WENT ON STRIKE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ISRAELIS DID? THEY MADE THE PALESTINIANS ENTIRELY HOPELESS AND OBSOLETE IN WHAT HAD BEEN THEIR COUNTRY LESS THAN 60 YEARS BEFORE.

THAT’S RIGHT, THEY HAD NO MORE WORLD JEWRY WHO WANTED TO COME TO THIS WAR-TORN-FORTRES-UNDER-PATHETIC-SIEGE OF A COUNTRY, SO THEY IMPORTED ASIANS AND AFRICANS, AND GOT THEM TO DO THE MENIAL JOBS, ANFTER CONVERTING SUPERFICIALLY TO JUDAISM.

Now, tell me what my apology is for? Please, someone who thinks i’m a sympathiser or collaborator (which if true, is a massive insult) deconstruct what i have written here (100% historical fact) and tell me, what hope is there for people? And lastly, what can we expect hopeless people to behave like? Yes, animals.

So what do i propose we do? That’s right, return hope to their situation.
That is all i suggest

70

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
vroom wrote:
dannyrat wrote:
…

For someone who doesn’t support terrorism you make a lot of excuses for it.

Yup.

As soon as the Palestinians (and others) stop terrorism and adopt the methods of Ghandi and Martin Luther King they will be better off.

[/quote]

You would need a really great leader like Ghandi, MLK or Nelson Mandela to pull that off.

Obviously Palestinians don’t have that type of leadership for the moment.

71

The only reason the Allies killed more civillians in WWII was because America was not occupied nor attacted directly by any land, sea, or air forces excpt for pearl harbor. In addition WE ENDED THE WAR BY KILLING CIVILLIANS. WE DROPPED TWO DAMN A-BOMBS WHERE CIVILLIANS LIVED. WE OVERWHELMED THEIR ASSES. BY KILLING THE CIVILLIANS WE MINIMIZED CASUALITIES AND WHAT DO YOU THINK CONCENTRATION CAMPS ARE FOR? THE FACT IS WE NEED A HARDCORE GROUND WAR AND FINALLY SLUG THE HELL OUT OF THEM. WHILE WE MAY NOT TARGET CIVILLIANS INTENTIONALLY THEY GET KILLED. THEY SHOULD SUCK IT UP AND STOP BITCHING. IN WWII NO ONE GAVE A SHIT ABOUT WHETHER CIVILIANS DIED OR NOT, EVERYONE TRULY UNDERSTOD WHAT WAR WAS.

72

ok blackjack, you know some ww2 history (wilkipedia grade). But about Mideast… you know very little. please don’t ever own a gun

73

[quote]blck1jack wrote:
The only reason the Allies killed more civillians in WWII was because America was not occupied nor attacted directly by any land, sea, or air forces excpt for pearl harbor. In addition WE ENDED THE WAR BY KILLING CIVILLIANS. WE DROPPED TWO DAMN A-BOMBS WHERE CIVILLIANS LIVED. WE OVERWHELMED THEIR ASSES. BY KILLING THE CIVILLIANS WE MINIMIZED CASUALITIES AND WHAT DO YOU THINK CONCENTRATION CAMPS ARE FOR? THE FACT IS WE NEED A HARDCORE GROUND WAR AND FINALLY SLUG THE HELL OUT OF THEM. WHILE WE MAY NOT TARGET CIVILLIANS INTENTIONALLY THEY GET KILLED. THEY SHOULD SUCK IT UP AND STOP BITCHING. IN WWII NO ONE GAVE A SHIT ABOUT WHETHER CIVILIANS DIED OR NOT, EVERYONE TRULY UNDERSTOD WHAT WAR WAS.[/quote]

Read this :

P.S. Don’t forget to watch the video or you’ll miss out on all the good stuff.

74

Danny,

I think, and I’m only guessing to be honest, that previous peace efforts have failed because while governments in the area say they want peace, there are other issues involved.

There are extremists in those countries which are not under government control. There are radicals from other countries, that get training and financing and yes, indoctrination, before being sent off to cause havoc somewhere else.

No matter how much you and I both wish peace would break out, I think the real world situation you described is pretty close to it. There are fanatical people that won’t stop poking at the situation because no solution is acceptable to them.

It’s those folks that the moderates in the region have to ostracize and remove from influence and power.

Now, how you and I can make that happen I don’t know. Maybe just be pointing it out repeatedly, everywhere, so that expatriates from the region can see it being talked about and can take it home next time they return, maybe that actually is helpful.

I don’t know. All I do know is my take on the situation… when somebody gives me billions of dollars to solve the problem then I’ll try to solve the problem. Hello, Bill Gates, want to try a peace experiment old buddy old pal?

75

[quote]dannyrat wrote:
Agreed. My overall point is the same as yours. I want peace
but i’ll fuck a kid up if he pushes me. If i keep trying to walk away, and you keep going, i guess i’m gonna dent your solar plexus. That’s the actual real world answer. Peace, but not at the expense of our own safety, right vroom?

I suppose the Palestinians think that is the answer- show they can’t be bullied. They do this in a horrible, violent, terrible, deplorable way (terrorism).
This leads to nothing good. Since we are having a discussion though, and i’m impatient now that noone seems to be listening, and just repeating platitudes and ‘they’ve been fighting for centuries’ type rhetoric, i’ll say----

The people on BOTH sides are guilty. BOTH SIDES. BOTH SIDES.

BUT. There needs to be a peace in the Middle East. The war cannot continue forever (as longtime Israeli Chief of Staff Moshe Dayan predicted, and who’s more expert than him?) so we need a peace deal right?

Anwar Sadat tried brokering a deal. Palestine were going for it (at last, admittedly at first they weren’t, but Sadat was cool, and told them sense) then, ISRAEL REJECTED A PEACE DEAL BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY WERE HOLDING ALL THE CHIPS, AND HAD THE MOST POWERFUL ALLIES/SPONSORS YOU COULD EVER WANT. Anyone who said it went down any different from this is ignorant. The capitalised statement needs to be committed to memory by most people posting in this thread. It’s like a mideast ‘Just Fucking Eat’, okay?

To continue the story, wars went on, more peace deals were proposed, and rejected, since Israel were in a commanding position (not biased, true),even more land was taken (giving the Israelis 76% of the land of what was once Palestine), so much so that they could not even fill it. So they appealed for worldwide jewry to come. etcetc
Shit went down, hostility continued, each side was deeply attached to Jerusalem etc etc.

THE PEOPLE OF GAZA (not all, but the ones we would hope to be given influence, to lead their refugee nation) HAD NO EMPLOYMENT, AS ISRAEL HAD TAKEN ALL THEIR CROPS, WATER AND JOBS. SO NOW, THEY HAD TO TRAVEL TO ISRAEL IN LIMITED NUMBERS TO DO MENIAL JOBS, DESPITE WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN NOTED IN THIS THREAD ABOUT A HUGE PhD RATE. (Bear in mind, that educated people, travelling even to Jordan or Egypt, would be very restricted, and Israel regularly imposes entire curfew and confinement in the Gaza strip, and limited mobility in the West Bank, to an entire nation, as punsihemnt for the actions of a radical group)
Imagine if you lived in a small town, and one kid was a murderer/rapist. Get him, right? What if he had a gun? avoid him and hope/help the authorities get him, right? Well what if the authorities put your whole town in a tine cage and refused you water, jobs, or to leave this place, even to work as a professor or doctor in egypt? (for example)

THESE PEOPLE JUST WANTED TO LIVE. BUT THEY WANTED BETTER CONDITIONS, SO DID WHAT ANY SOCIALIST WOULD DO PEACEABLY FOR THEIR RIGHTS- WENT ON STRIKE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ISRAELIS DID? THEY MADE THE PALESTINIANS ENTIRELY HOPELESS AND OBSOLETE IN WHAT HAD BEEN THEIR COUNTRY LESS THAN 60 YEARS BEFORE.

THAT’S RIGHT, THEY HAD NO MORE WORLD JEWRY WHO WANTED TO COME TO THIS WAR-TORN-FORTRES-UNDER-PATHETIC-SIEGE OF A COUNTRY, SO THEY IMPORTED ASIANS AND AFRICANS, AND GOT THEM TO DO THE MENIAL JOBS, ANFTER CONVERTING SUPERFICIALLY TO JUDAISM.

Now, tell me what my apology is for? Please, someone who thinks i’m a sympathiser or collaborator (which if true, is a massive insult) deconstruct what i have written here (100% historical fact) and tell me, what hope is there for people? And lastly, what can we expect hopeless people to behave like? Yes, animals.

So what do i propose we do? That’s right, return hope to their situation.
That is all i suggest[/quote]

Very good post !

76

[quote]k.elkouhen wrote:

I would be very interested in hearing how you understood that from those pictures.
[/quote]

I would be very interested in hearing how YOU understood what you did from those pictures. Israel is attacking Hezbollah, so why would anyone assume that those bombs are meant for anyone else?

The Lebanese have been playing both sides against the middle, or at least it appears that way. Which is it? Do they permit and accept Hezbollah to be in their country? If so, I don’t see how you can defend them.

Or do they despise Hezbollah as well, but cannot get rid of them? This very likely the case. But if so, then why wouldn’t the Lebanese welcome the idea of someone destroying Hezbollah for them?

It’s got to be one or the other. Either they want Hezbollah over there, or they don’t. Either way, Israel’s response is justified considering the aims of the enemy.

77

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
The_Rabbi wrote:

You realla ARE a self-rigtheous bastard aren’t you?[/quote]

That’s funny, I didn’t realize opposing fundamentalist Muslims who want to establish a worldwide Caliphate, where neither you or I has any say in what faith we practice or moral code we ascribe to made one a self-righteous bastard.

If so, then I proudly claim the title as my own.

What don’t you guys get about Hezbollah and Hamas? They want to destroy Israel. End of sentence. No amount of Land that Israel has given up and no amount of negotiations has changed that. What makes you think further negotiations will?

Christ, if I didn’t know any better, I’d say you guys were on the same side as the radical Muslims. But surely no self-respecting T-man would bow at the altar of Qutbism, would he?

78

[quote]The_Rabbi wrote:
What don’t you guys get about Hezbollah and Hamas? They want to destroy Israel. End of sentence. No amount of Land that Israel has given up and no amount of negotiations has changed that. What makes you think further negotiations will?

Christ, if I didn’t know any better, I’d say you guys were on the same side as the radical Muslims. But surely no self-respecting T-man would bow at the altar of Qutbism, would he?[/quote]

Rabbi, these guys are busy trying to play the “blame game” as if that can justify anything that is taking place.

Terrorism is war.

Any civilians not willing to live with the conditions of war, which is what we seem to be hearing about lately, should ensure that their country is not sponsoring or harboring terrorists.

Personally, I don’t give a shit who lost what chunk of land for what reason and how badly they want it back. The place to go, if there is in fact any place, is the UN.

The worlds tolerance for terrorism is at an end.

79

[quote]The_Rabbi wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
The_Rabbi wrote:

You realla ARE a self-rigtheous bastard aren’t you?

That’s funny, I didn’t realize opposing fundamentalist Muslims who want to establish a worldwide Caliphate, where neither you or I has any say in what faith we practice or moral code we ascribe to made one a self-righteous bastard.

If so, then I proudly claim the title as my own.

What don’t you guys get about Hezbollah and Hamas? They want to destroy Israel. End of sentence. No amount of Land that Israel has given up and no amount of negotiations has changed that. What makes you think further negotiations will?

Christ, if I didn’t know any better, I’d say you guys were on the same side as the radical Muslims. But surely no self-respecting T-man would bow at the altar of Qutbism, would he?[/quote]

Rabbi, many of these guys are part of the Blame America First crowd.

Your logic and truth is useless against them.

80

[quote]vroom wrote:
…

Rabbi, these guys are busy trying to play the “blame game” as if that can justify anything that is taking place.

Terrorism is war.

Any civilians not willing to live with the conditions of war, which is what we seem to be hearing about lately, should ensure that their country is not sponsoring or harboring terrorists.

Personally, I don’t give a shit who lost what chunk of land for what reason and how badly they want it back. The place to go, if there is in fact any place, is the UN.

The worlds tolerance for terrorism is at an end.[/quote]

Damn vroom, I love the way you are stepping up for the right thing on this issue.