This is Israel

[lou21]

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Clearly you don’t fear extremist Islam like the Israeli’s do…they are doing what they have to do to survive.
[/quote]

Thing is is they want to survive long term the Israelis need to work out how to make peace with the Palestinians…[/quote]

You can not make peace with people who do not want it. Sure, they’ll accept a peace treaty but secretly re-arm and attack as evidenced by the past.[/quote]

What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?[/quote]

What evidence that Hamas wants mutual co-existence has actually ever existed?

Your argument is the equivalent of “If you tried hard enough, you could fly. You just aren’t trying hard enough!”[/quote]

PA official says Hamas accepted two-state solution

Report: Meshal says Hamas accepts a two-state solution

Hamas Foreign Minister: We Accept Two-State Solution With '67 Borders

SO Hamas have been prepared to accept a two-state solution for years. However, the point is that prior to this Israeli attack Hamas were not important anymore. Their main funding was out (Iran due to a split over Syria). Hamas had agreed to a unity government with Fatah as the main party.

Israel didn’t really need to negotiate with Hamas before this they just needed to act.

Now the Israeli government has made Hamas stronger.[/quote]

Hamas also demanded the Palestinian state’s capital be Jerusalem. Didn’t you even read the articles? There’s no way Israel can or will accept that. If you can’t understand it, then you can’t understand why none of the treaties ever were approved. You could ask the question from the Israeli point of view as well “What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?”[/quote]

These are demands could have been a starting point for peace talks. Instead Israel mowed the grass in Gaza yet again.

[lou21]

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Clearly you don’t fear extremist Islam like the Israeli’s do…they are doing what they have to do to survive.
[/quote]

Thing is is they want to survive long term the Israelis need to work out how to make peace with the Palestinians…[/quote]

You can not make peace with people who do not want it. Sure, they’ll accept a peace treaty but secretly re-arm and attack as evidenced by the past.[/quote]

What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?[/quote]

What evidence that Hamas wants mutual co-existence has actually ever existed?

Your argument is the equivalent of “If you tried hard enough, you could fly. You just aren’t trying hard enough!”[/quote]

PA official says Hamas accepted two-state solution

Report: Meshal says Hamas accepts a two-state solution

Hamas Foreign Minister: We Accept Two-State Solution With '67 Borders

SO Hamas have been prepared to accept a two-state solution for years. However, the point is that prior to this Israeli attack Hamas were not important anymore. Their main funding was out (Iran due to a split over Syria). Hamas had agreed to a unity government with Fatah as the main party.

Israel didn’t really need to negotiate with Hamas before this they just needed to act.

Now the Israeli government has made Hamas stronger.[/quote]

Hamas also demanded the Palestinian state’s capital be Jerusalem. Didn’t you even read the articles? There’s no way Israel can or will accept that. If you can’t understand it, then you can’t understand why none of the treaties ever were approved. You could ask the question from the Israeli point of view as well “What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?”[/quote]

These are demands could have been a starting point for peace talks. Instead Israel mowed the grass in Gaza yet again.[/quote]

You really can fly! Try harder!
[/quote]

You are equating that for the Israeli government making peace is as unnatural as flying? This seems a little strong even for a country that has occupied and oppressed an entire people since 1967.

[UtahLama]

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Clearly you don’t fear extremist Islam like the Israeli’s do…they are doing what they have to do to survive.
[/quote]

Thing is is they want to survive long term the Israelis need to work out how to make peace with the Palestinians…[/quote]

You can not make peace with people who do not want it. Sure, they’ll accept a peace treaty but secretly re-arm and attack as evidenced by the past.[/quote]

What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?[/quote]

What evidence that Hamas wants mutual co-existence has actually ever existed?

Your argument is the equivalent of “If you tried hard enough, you could fly. You just aren’t trying hard enough!”[/quote]

PA official says Hamas accepted two-state solution

Report: Meshal says Hamas accepts a two-state solution

Hamas Foreign Minister: We Accept Two-State Solution With '67 Borders

SO Hamas have been prepared to accept a two-state solution for years. However, the point is that prior to this Israeli attack Hamas were not important anymore. Their main funding was out (Iran due to a split over Syria). Hamas had agreed to a unity government with Fatah as the main party.

Israel didn’t really need to negotiate with Hamas before this they just needed to act.

Now the Israeli government has made Hamas stronger.[/quote]

Hamas also demanded the Palestinian state’s capital be Jerusalem. Didn’t you even read the articles? There’s no way Israel can or will accept that. If you can’t understand it, then you can’t understand why none of the treaties ever were approved. You could ask the question from the Israeli point of view as well “What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?”[/quote]

These are demands could have been a starting point for peace talks. Instead Israel mowed the grass in Gaza yet again.[/quote]

You really can fly! Try harder!
[/quote]

You are equating that for the Israeli government making peace is as unnatural as flying? This seems a little strong even for a country that has occupied and oppressed an entire people since 1967.[/quote]

There is the leftist opinion of this situation…and then there is left of them. See:squatopee

You are currently out in left field behind him.

[lou21]

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Clearly you don’t fear extremist Islam like the Israeli’s do…they are doing what they have to do to survive.
[/quote]

Thing is is they want to survive long term the Israelis need to work out how to make peace with the Palestinians…[/quote]

You can not make peace with people who do not want it. Sure, they’ll accept a peace treaty but secretly re-arm and attack as evidenced by the past.[/quote]

What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?[/quote]

What evidence that Hamas wants mutual co-existence has actually ever existed?

Your argument is the equivalent of “If you tried hard enough, you could fly. You just aren’t trying hard enough!”[/quote]

PA official says Hamas accepted two-state solution

Report: Meshal says Hamas accepts a two-state solution

Hamas Foreign Minister: We Accept Two-State Solution With '67 Borders

SO Hamas have been prepared to accept a two-state solution for years. However, the point is that prior to this Israeli attack Hamas were not important anymore. Their main funding was out (Iran due to a split over Syria). Hamas had agreed to a unity government with Fatah as the main party.

Israel didn’t really need to negotiate with Hamas before this they just needed to act.

Now the Israeli government has made Hamas stronger.[/quote]

Hamas also demanded the Palestinian state’s capital be Jerusalem. Didn’t you even read the articles? There’s no way Israel can or will accept that. If you can’t understand it, then you can’t understand why none of the treaties ever were approved. You could ask the question from the Israeli point of view as well “What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?”[/quote]

These are demands could have been a starting point for peace talks. Instead Israel mowed the grass in Gaza yet again.[/quote]

You really can fly! Try harder!
[/quote]

You are equating that for the Israeli government making peace is as unnatural as flying? This seems a little strong even for a country that has occupied and oppressed an entire people since 1967.[/quote]

There is the leftist opinion of this situation…and then there is left of them. See:squatopee

You are currently out in left field behind him.

[/quote]

Is your sarcasm detector off today?

This is not a left vs. right issue. It is an issue of: morals, international law and human rights.

[Gkhan]

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Clearly you don’t fear extremist Islam like the Israeli’s do…they are doing what they have to do to survive.
[/quote]

Thing is is they want to survive long term the Israelis need to work out how to make peace with the Palestinians…[/quote]

You can not make peace with people who do not want it. Sure, they’ll accept a peace treaty but secretly re-arm and attack as evidenced by the past.[/quote]

What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?[/quote]

What evidence that Hamas wants mutual co-existence has actually ever existed?

Your argument is the equivalent of “If you tried hard enough, you could fly. You just aren’t trying hard enough!”[/quote]

PA official says Hamas accepted two-state solution

Report: Meshal says Hamas accepts a two-state solution

Hamas Foreign Minister: We Accept Two-State Solution With '67 Borders

SO Hamas have been prepared to accept a two-state solution for years. However, the point is that prior to this Israeli attack Hamas were not important anymore. Their main funding was out (Iran due to a split over Syria). Hamas had agreed to a unity government with Fatah as the main party.

Israel didn’t really need to negotiate with Hamas before this they just needed to act.

Now the Israeli government has made Hamas stronger.[/quote]

Hamas also demanded the Palestinian state’s capital be Jerusalem. Didn’t you even read the articles? There’s no way Israel can or will accept that. If you can’t understand it, then you can’t understand why none of the treaties ever were approved. You could ask the question from the Israeli point of view as well “What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?”[/quote]

These are demands could have been a starting point for peace talks. Instead Israel mowed the grass in Gaza yet again.[/quote]

Mowed the grass? Who else on this forum uses that phrase? pittbull, is that you?

[UtahLama]

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Clearly you don’t fear extremist Islam like the Israeli’s do…they are doing what they have to do to survive.
[/quote]

Thing is is they want to survive long term the Israelis need to work out how to make peace with the Palestinians…[/quote]

You can not make peace with people who do not want it. Sure, they’ll accept a peace treaty but secretly re-arm and attack as evidenced by the past.[/quote]

What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?[/quote]

What evidence that Hamas wants mutual co-existence has actually ever existed?

Your argument is the equivalent of “If you tried hard enough, you could fly. You just aren’t trying hard enough!”[/quote]

PA official says Hamas accepted two-state solution

Report: Meshal says Hamas accepts a two-state solution

Hamas Foreign Minister: We Accept Two-State Solution With '67 Borders

SO Hamas have been prepared to accept a two-state solution for years. However, the point is that prior to this Israeli attack Hamas were not important anymore. Their main funding was out (Iran due to a split over Syria). Hamas had agreed to a unity government with Fatah as the main party.

Israel didn’t really need to negotiate with Hamas before this they just needed to act.

Now the Israeli government has made Hamas stronger.[/quote]

Hamas also demanded the Palestinian state’s capital be Jerusalem. Didn’t you even read the articles? There’s no way Israel can or will accept that. If you can’t understand it, then you can’t understand why none of the treaties ever were approved. You could ask the question from the Israeli point of view as well “What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?”[/quote]

These are demands could have been a starting point for peace talks. Instead Israel mowed the grass in Gaza yet again.[/quote]

Mowed the grass? Who else on this forum uses that phrase? pittbull, is that you?
[/quote]

No…fewer spelling and grammatical errors.

[squating_bear]

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Clearly you don’t fear extremist Islam like the Israeli’s do…they are doing what they have to do to survive.
[/quote]

Thing is is they want to survive long term the Israelis need to work out how to make peace with the Palestinians…[/quote]

You can not make peace with people who do not want it. Sure, they’ll accept a peace treaty but secretly re-arm and attack as evidenced by the past.[/quote]

What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?[/quote]

What evidence that Hamas wants mutual co-existence has actually ever existed?

Your argument is the equivalent of “If you tried hard enough, you could fly. You just aren’t trying hard enough!”[/quote]

PA official says Hamas accepted two-state solution

Report: Meshal says Hamas accepts a two-state solution

Hamas Foreign Minister: We Accept Two-State Solution With '67 Borders

SO Hamas have been prepared to accept a two-state solution for years. However, the point is that prior to this Israeli attack Hamas were not important anymore. Their main funding was out (Iran due to a split over Syria). Hamas had agreed to a unity government with Fatah as the main party.

Israel didn’t really need to negotiate with Hamas before this they just needed to act.

Now the Israeli government has made Hamas stronger.[/quote]
Insofar as expansion is or could be a goal, strengthening Hamas is or would be a means towards that end

[lou21]

[quote]squating_bear wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Clearly you don’t fear extremist Islam like the Israeli’s do…they are doing what they have to do to survive.
[/quote]

Thing is is they want to survive long term the Israelis need to work out how to make peace with the Palestinians…[/quote]

You can not make peace with people who do not want it. Sure, they’ll accept a peace treaty but secretly re-arm and attack as evidenced by the past.[/quote]

What reasonable peace treaty has actually ever existed?[/quote]

What evidence that Hamas wants mutual co-existence has actually ever existed?

Your argument is the equivalent of “If you tried hard enough, you could fly. You just aren’t trying hard enough!”[/quote]

PA official says Hamas accepted two-state solution

Report: Meshal says Hamas accepts a two-state solution

Hamas Foreign Minister: We Accept Two-State Solution With '67 Borders

SO Hamas have been prepared to accept a two-state solution for years. However, the point is that prior to this Israeli attack Hamas were not important anymore. Their main funding was out (Iran due to a split over Syria). Hamas had agreed to a unity government with Fatah as the main party.

Israel didn’t really need to negotiate with Hamas before this they just needed to act.

Now the Israeli government has made Hamas stronger.[/quote]
Insofar as expansion is or could be a goal, strengthening Hamas is or would be a means towards that end[/quote]

The Israeli government apparently initially encouraged the growth of Hamas.

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas - WSJ

Making Enemies - The American Conservative

[lou21]

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

No…fewer spelling and grammatical errors.[/quote]

Why thank you.

[lou21]

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
For Angry Chicken:

The Imbecile Who Is a Jelly Donut is once again perpetuating a lie, disguised as it might be in a statistic.
The Arab population were largely not land-owners in 1948, they were landless Bedouins, share-croppers, tenants, recent immigrants drawn by higher wages and the agricultural and economic activity started by Jewish settlers. What arable land owned by non-Jews was largely held by absentees in Damascus, Beirut and Cairo, or by land speculators who sold marginal land to Jews at inflated prices.

Land Ownership in 1948
The claim is often made that in 1948 a Jewish minority owning
only 5 per cent of the land of Palestine made itself master of the
Arab majority, which owned 95 per cent of the land.
In May 1948 the State of Israel was established in only part of the
area allotted by the original League of Nations Mandate. 8.6 per
cent of the land was owned by Jews and 3.3 per cent by Israeli
Arabs, while 16.9 per cent had been abandoned by Arab owners who
imprudently heeded the call from neighbouring countries to “get
out of the way” while the invading Arab armies made short shrift of
Israel. The rest of the land–over 70 per cent–had been vested in
the Mandatory Power, and accordingly reverted to the State of
Israel as its legal heir. (Government of Palestine, Survey of Palestine,
1946, British Government Printer, p. 257.) {Edit: Note that the whole of the Transjordan had been transferred to Arab protogovernment long before.}
The greater part of this 70 per cent consisted of the Negev, some
3,144,250 acres all told, or close to 50 per cent of the 6,580,000
acres in all of Mandatory Palestine. Known as Crown or State
Lands, this was mostly uninhabited arid or semi-arid territory,
inherited originally by the Mandatory Government from Turkey.
In 1948 it passed to the Government of Israel.
These lands had not been owned by Arab farmers?neither under
the British Mandate nor under the preceding regime. Thus it is
obvious that the contention that 95 per cent of the land?whether
of Mandatory Palestine or of the State of Israel?had belonged to
Arabs has absolutely no foundation in fact.

• • ?
    There is perhaps no better way of concluding and summing up
    this study than to quote from an article entitled Is Israel a Thorn
    or a Flower in the Near East? by Abdul Razak Kader, the Algerian
    political writer, now living in exile in Paris (Jerusalem Post, Aug. 1,
    1969):
    "The Nationalists of the states neighbouring on Israel, whether
    they are in the government or in business, whether Palestinian,
    Syrian or Lebanese, or town dwellers of tribal origin, all know that
    at the beginning of the century and during the British Mandate
    the marshy plains and stone hills were sold to the Zionists by their
    fathers or uncles for gold, the very gold which is often the origin
    of their own political or commercial careers. The nomadic or seminomadic
    peasants who inhabited the frontier regions know full well
    what the green plains, the afforested hills and the flowering fields
    of today’s Israel were like before.
    “The Palestinians who are today refugees in the neighbouring
    countries and who were adults at the time of their flight know all
    this, and no anti-Zionist propaganda?pan-Arab or pan-Moslem?
    can make them forget that their present nationalist exploiters are
    the worthy sons of their feudal exploiters of yesterday and that the
    thorns of their life are of Arab, not Jewish, origin.”[/quote]

I’d be interested to read this article. What is the full reference?[/quote]

Still no reference? Does the article even exist?

[cwill1973]

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]lou21 wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
For Angry Chicken:

The Imbecile Who Is a Jelly Donut is once again perpetuating a lie, disguised as it might be in a statistic.
The Arab population were largely not land-owners in 1948, they were landless Bedouins, share-croppers, tenants, recent immigrants drawn by higher wages and the agricultural and economic activity started by Jewish settlers. What arable land owned by non-Jews was largely held by absentees in Damascus, Beirut and Cairo, or by land speculators who sold marginal land to Jews at inflated prices.

Land Ownership in 1948
The claim is often made that in 1948 a Jewish minority owning
only 5 per cent of the land of Palestine made itself master of the
Arab majority, which owned 95 per cent of the land.
In May 1948 the State of Israel was established in only part of the
area allotted by the original League of Nations Mandate. 8.6 per
cent of the land was owned by Jews and 3.3 per cent by Israeli
Arabs, while 16.9 per cent had been abandoned by Arab owners who
imprudently heeded the call from neighbouring countries to “get
out of the way” while the invading Arab armies made short shrift of
Israel. The rest of the land–over 70 per cent–had been vested in
the Mandatory Power, and accordingly reverted to the State of
Israel as its legal heir. (Government of Palestine, Survey of Palestine,
1946, British Government Printer, p. 257.) {Edit: Note that the whole of the Transjordan had been transferred to Arab protogovernment long before.}
The greater part of this 70 per cent consisted of the Negev, some
3,144,250 acres all told, or close to 50 per cent of the 6,580,000
acres in all of Mandatory Palestine. Known as Crown or State
Lands, this was mostly uninhabited arid or semi-arid territory,
inherited originally by the Mandatory Government from Turkey.
In 1948 it passed to the Government of Israel.
These lands had not been owned by Arab farmers?neither under
the British Mandate nor under the preceding regime. Thus it is
obvious that the contention that 95 per cent of the land?whether
of Mandatory Palestine or of the State of Israel?had belonged to
Arabs has absolutely no foundation in fact.

• • ?
    There is perhaps no better way of concluding and summing up
    this study than to quote from an article entitled Is Israel a Thorn
    or a Flower in the Near East? by Abdul Razak Kader, the Algerian
    political writer, now living in exile in Paris (Jerusalem Post, Aug. 1,
    1969):
    "The Nationalists of the states neighbouring on Israel, whether
    they are in the government or in business, whether Palestinian,
    Syrian or Lebanese, or town dwellers of tribal origin, all know that
    at the beginning of the century and during the British Mandate
    the marshy plains and stone hills were sold to the Zionists by their
    fathers or uncles for gold, the very gold which is often the origin
    of their own political or commercial careers. The nomadic or seminomadic
    peasants who inhabited the frontier regions know full well
    what the green plains, the afforested hills and the flowering fields
    of today’s Israel were like before.
    “The Palestinians who are today refugees in the neighbouring
    countries and who were adults at the time of their flight know all
    this, and no anti-Zionist propaganda?pan-Arab or pan-Moslem?
    can make them forget that their present nationalist exploiters are
    the worthy sons of their feudal exploiters of yesterday and that the
    thorns of their life are of Arab, not Jewish, origin.”[/quote]

I’d be interested to read this article. What is the full reference?[/quote]

Still no reference? Does the article even exist?[/quote]

Try a Google search clown boy. I found it on the first try.